Talk:NewsRadio

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[edit] use of "irreverent" is vandalism/soapbox?!

Codem01: While I don't have a strong opinion on if "absurd" or "irreverent" or both terms is best, I don't see how you can call it vandalism/soapbox. I'm finally seeing some reruns in my market and it is extremely irreverant. Were you thinking of "irrelevant," maybe? Rufus Sarsaparilla 01:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

No I wasn't thinking of irrelevant. Although I must admit I had to look up the meaning of irreverent. From what I can tell, irreverent means disrespectful. Disrespectful can mean disrespect of authority but I've mostly seen examples of irreverent's usage in the context of disrespect torwards relgion. See America's Irreverent Sense of Humor. The examples cited in this article are far more controversial than anything on NewsRadio. Also saying something is disrespectful is very subjective. Let me know if you see the definition of irreverent differently. The edit also removed 'absurd' and replaced it with 'irreverent' without explaination. The two words don't have similar meaning. I consider replacing 'absurd' without explaination to be vandalism. I am very careful to not delete someone's work when I'm editing. If he/she didn't agree that absurd is an accurate description, it should have been discussed. If the edit was meant to imply religious disrespect it's soapbox. --Codem01 06:27, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for sharing your line of reasoning. According to my dictionary irreverant means "lacking proper respect or seriousness, also: satiric". Which to me is an accurate description of NewsRadio. It could be very silly and definitely was satiric. Absurd is a good word also. Again, It's not my ox being gored, I just thought your analysis was kind of harsh. Rufus Sarsaparilla 18:54, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
"Irreverent" means lacking reverence or veneration, especially of sacred things -- oftentimes, sacred cows. It is satire, mocking, a send-up of conventions -- disrespect, in this case, for the cliched norms of sitcoms. It is the perfect word to describe NewsRadio. Further, one might use the word "absurdist," but the scripts are rarely absurd. Laszlo Panaflex 01:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Why not call it satire, then? Irreverent seems to have negative connotations (see above). Also calling the humor disrespectful, not only describes the humor. It also implies the subject being ridiculed deserves respect or is commonly respected, which is debatable. I'm not advocating absurd over irreverent, although I do think absurd describes NewsRadio. IMO, you only call something disrespectful if you're seeking to ban or censor it. Satire only describes the humor. --Codem01 14:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
This is a completely ilznidiotic argument. Paul Simms called the show irreverent, and I doubt he was seeking to ban or censor his own show (although maybe he did push the network to see how far he could go before they would ban or censor his show...). I'm pretty sure he meant it in exactly the way Laszlo Panaflex suggests (although the show also had an irreverent attitude toward politics, the news media, etc.). And I'm guessing whoever put the word in this article meant the same. I also agree that "absurdist" is a better description of the show than "absurd"--but "irreverent" and "satirical" are also fine. --Falcotron 17:49, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
You are focusing on the wrong variant of the meaning of the word. If you haven't heard the word used in context before, perhaps you might defer to those who have -- like Paul Simms, for instance. Here is an example of NewsRadio's irreverence (flouting of convention): A tiresome sitcom cliche involves two characters destined for a relationship, yet kept apart by mishaps for year after year (I call it the Who's the Boss syndrome, but it equally applies to Frasier and many others). NBC wanted this with Dave and Lisa. Instead, the show consummated their relationship in the second episode. They thumbed their noses at sitcom convention, irreverently, and found humor in the implications of the relationship rather than leaning on the predictable crutch of building tension. The Titanic and outer space episodes are further examples of irreverence, as well as of absurdism (as opposed to being "absurd," which implies that they make no sense). Gzizza, Laszlo Panaflex 19:29, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Although I obviously agree with you completely, I wanted to make two points about your example. First, the traditional name for the cliche you're referring to is "Sam and Diane," (after Cheers). Besides, if I remember Matthew correctly, it's Joe, not Dave, who was Tony Danza, Jr. Second, that's more an example of what I was talking about (Paul Simms deliberately pushing the NBC execs) than general irreverence. Upon seeing the pilot, NBC asked if he was planning to do a "Sam and Diane" with Dave and Lisa, and he responded by throwing them into bed right away. He did the same with NBC's repeated demands for a wedding episode (Joe's on-air proposal to Lisa, and later Lisa's wedding to Johnny--which NBC, to their credit, took with a completely straight face), their suggestion to get rid of Andy Dick's pratfalls (Matthew announcing, after Jimmy's heart attack, that he's going to "stop pretending to fall down"), their demand for another "spicy" female character (Andrea "Planbee," who had no romantic subplots), their request for tie-ins to "Four Weddings and a Funeral" (the rat funeral) and "The 60s" (Jimmy's hippie hypnosis), and so on. But anyway, the show was definitely both irreverent and absurdist, as well as having that upstate prison flavor that keeps you ugly all night long. --Falcotron 19:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't think I'm focusing on the wrong variant. It's first definition listed which I believe means it's the most common usage. Also, I tried to google usage of irreverent and most of what came up was using the word to mean disrespectful. Despite what preconception you have of irreverent, I hope you can see some merit in the point I am making. Some words, because of how they're used, have a negative connotation or additional meaning that is undesired. For example: scheme - plan, attack - retaliation, secretary of war - defense, outdated - antique, lie detector - polygraph, adequate - standard, geek - enthusiast. Scheme is commonly used to imply a devious plan. Retaliation implies provocation. Secretary of War implies aggressor. Outdated implies worthless. Lie dectector implies the machine actually detects lies. Saying a car's safety features are adequate vs. saying it meets safety standards evokes different reaction. And you'll remember several instances in NewsRadio where someone is really into something but they rather be referred as "(blank) enthusiast" instead of another term. I guess lie dectector and adequate are also mentioned on the show as well. In hindsight, I'd like to take back my comment that the edit that started this whole and now very long section was vandalism / soap box. Apparently the interpretation of irreverent is not as clear cut as I thought. However I still stand by my belief that irreverent is not a good word to use due to it's negative connotations.--Codem01 01:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
As I said, the connotation with which it is used here is "the flouting of convention," or if you prefer, a disrepect for sitcom norms. It is an accepted, and common, usage of the word. Internet dictionaries are imprecise and incomplete, though the definition found here best catches the connotation intended: "[Wordnet] 2: characterized by a lightly pert and exuberant quality; 'a certain irreverent gaiety and ease of manner' [syn: impertinent, pert, saucy]." Other synonyms such as "mocking, cheeky, flip" are listed. You'll notice among the thesaurus words of a distinctly religious nature -- related to a lack of reverence for sacred things -- and then a number of seemingly unrelated words, some of which I've listed.
In context, the word is used formally in relation to transgressions against a culture or religion, often Catholicism, or in describing satirical, offbeat comedy. If you object to that usage of the word, feel free to remove it from the page. But you will then want to remove it from the hundreds of other Wikipedia pages that use it in precisely the same context. Good luck with that. Laszlo Panaflex 05:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree, you're not focusing on the wrong variant, Codem01. There's something else you're not getting. In short, the word doesn't just connote, but flat out means, disrespectful--but there's not necessarily anything negative about calling something disrespectful. To those of us with little respect for the cliched conventions of sitcoms, "irreverent" has positively positive connotations. To those who find standard sitcom formulae sacred icons not to be mocked, it probably does have negative connotations--but then such people surely wouldn't like NewsRadio, and shouldn't be fooled into thinking they might by an unambiguously positive fan page. ∴ "Irreverent" is a perfect description. ∎ (P.S., Maybe it's because I'm a geek... er, enthusiast... but to me, "scheme" doesn't imply deviousness so much as hygiene. And, you know, a single namespace.) --Falcotron 08:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Cane

What's the one where Bill juggles with the canes'n'stuff? Thanks, Frank W ~@) R, Jan. 5, 18:54 PST.

The episode was merely entitled "The Cane." - Berlyn

[edit] Ray Romano

On the recently released DVDs, the commentary track for the first/pilot episode refers to the show's producers firing Ray Romano, basically because his delivery wasn't working out possibly due to nervousness, instead of him choosing to leave. Bitt 02:17, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Are you trying to suggest that not everybody loves Raymond.... ;-) func(talk) 02:27, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Um... are you saying they said that Ray Romano didn't work out before they even filmed the pilot, or fired him after filming and producing the pilot? Because... Ray Romano wasn't in the pilot episode, though they had considered him for the role of Joe. PantherFoxie 17:27, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


I can't believe crap like everybody loved raymond does so well, while shows like this were treated so badly and ended early

NBC sure was brainless

[edit] Twin Towers/Dave Nelson

The name "Dave Nelson" came from the Twin Towers. Each tower had a name, one being Dave, the other Nelson. In the opening credits, Dave Foley's name comes across the screen with the towers in the background.

Deleted. Is there a source for this? I can't find any solid references to WTC nicknames, much less that Dave Nelson is related to them.

I found when it was added, with no edit summary, the only edit of an anon; so non-verifiable. func(talk) 02:40, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This factoid probably originates from the imdb.com entry for NewsRadio, which states this as fact. However, its verified at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/newyork/peopleevents/p_rockefellers.html, citing they were named after two Rockefellers.

I read somewhere that the name Dave Nelson was created by the director, Dave coming from Dave Foley the directors first choice for the part, and Nelson being his mother's maiden name

[edit] Offbeat season 'finales'

A note on the edit changing "finales" to simply "episodes" - while "Injury," which aired at the end of Season 3, was not intended to be that season's finale, it did indeed air after "Space." It has been returned to its proper position at the end of Season 2 on the DVD set, but it is debatable to me whether the original intentions of the producers or the network's final airing schedule should dictate whether "Space" and "Sinking Ship" are both finales, or are just episodes - thus, I suggest leaving them as such.

[edit] Beth's Last Name

I've seen the entire run too many times to justify, and I don't recall any mention of Beth's last name, much less a "running gag." There was certainly a running gag with Bill regarding Joe's last name -- "your name is Garelli?" -- but Beth? Could someone provide an example or two? - Laszlo Panaflex 19:14, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

No examples, so I'm lifting out the clause. -Laszlo Panaflex 21:53, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
The gag is that she doesn't have a last name. Not just that it's never mentioned, but that she literally doesn't have one. 209.174.140.100 05:57, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Again, when was this ever mentioned at all? The reference is back up on the page, but I do not recall her last name ever coming up, much less her saying "it's just Beth." Any examples? Laszlo Panaflex 18:12, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Still no examples cited, so I removed the claim again. Laszlo Panaflex 18:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Her last name was never mentioned on the show, which is reflected in the EpGuide. – ClockworkSoul 05:54, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
In episode 5-20, "Freaky Friday" Beth specifically states that she has no last name. In the episode Beth had been scamming CD-of-the-month clubs out of thousands of CD's and a record company employee eventually tracks her down to the office and offers her a check for $1000 if she promises to desist. When he makes out the check that's when the name issue comes up. --nicolas.b 06:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, we have one instance. For it to be a "running gag" we need at least two more. Laszlo Panaflex 17:51, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
If that's your criteria then I think you'll find that it was not a "running gag". BTW, the running gag involving Joe's last name was not exclusive to Bill. I recall seeing both Lisa and Beth make the question/joke, also... but I have no idea in which episodes. --nicolas.b 22:01, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I believe I added the bit about Beth's name being a running gag. It's referenced at least one more time, in episode "Zoso" when Beth is trying to market "Fat Albert" hats. When introducing herself to the potential buyer, he asks her last name and she says it's "Just Beth". SAMIAM779 June 2006


{UPDATE} In the season three dvd commentary, the writers clarify the issue by saying it was meant to be a sort of running gag. Their own public words, not mine :) (or perhaps season 2, I'll verify for sure later this week)

[edit] The Pic

Why won't the pic load? It hasn't been deleted, and the formatting doesn't seem to have changed.  ??? - Laszlo Panaflex 06:07, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I resized it a bit and now it is loading. Laszlo Panaflex 18:02, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

The pic has been changed slightly to better abide by the fair use agreement. The picture is the same, but now I know the source (tv.yahoo.com). Copyright is believed to be NBC. The clearly posed promotional photo should fall under fair use. -stewunit

The earlier pic, Image:NR-Cast-2.jpg, was a much larger version of the same picture. The copyright isn't different for a thumbnail of a picture than for the original. The better solution here, I propose, is to source the Image:NR-Cast-2.jpg pic to the tv.yahoo link -- it is the same pic, merely resized. Then the nice large pic is still available to readers, instead of this thumbnail. Laszlo Panaflex 20:44, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

further, in the season three dvd commentary, the writers clarify the issue by saying it was meant to be a sort of running gag. Their own public words, not mine :) (or perhaps season 2, I'll verify for sure later this week)

[edit] Jimmy was not D.B. Cooper

"may have been famous skyjacker D.B. Cooper" is incorrect. Episode 5-8, "Clash of the Titans", explicitly established that Adam West was Cooper, not Jimmy. Correction has been made. CaptHayfever 06:10, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Saying that Jimmy "may have been famous skyjacker D.B. Cooper" is not in and of itself incorrect, as the question of Cooper's identity is up in the air (so to speak) within the story arc; West's revelation does not change the existence of the identity question in the infinitive sense. XPeeple 02:41, 5 April 2006 (UTC)XPeeple
Given how Jimmy ordered Adam West around, it was my impression that Jimmy was indeed D. B. Cooper, but that Adam West owed him big and this is how Jimmy collected on the debt, of course that's just speculation Jztinfinity 00:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Evelyn "Bill" McNeal

Just watched an episode where Bill's birth certificate is found and it turns out his middle name is Bill (William) and his first name is really Evelyn, or as he protests "pronounced EVE a lyn." I have changed the text to reflect this.

[edit] Incredibly unencyclopedic

I love the show too, a lot, but this is pretty much a fan page. I tried to edit some of it but it's pretty much the entire article. Whether it's referring to actors by their first name, giggling along with a joke.. it needs to be a little more serious. Does anyone agree? Oreo man 19:32, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

A lot of the fault is mine, as I started the Careers after NewsRadio section back when I first got going on Wikipedia. I made some adjustments to it that should help a little. Tigermave 22:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ratings and Syndication

I'm not sure about the accuracy of two portions of this article:

1) I think the ratings for Newsradio were actually healthy through season two. The turn for the worse came starting in season three.

2) I also think the 100 episode measure for syndication was the standard as of when the show was sold but is no longer the standard due to sales of shows like Newsradio.

I don't have sources at the moment to back either of these things up, but I'm casually looking for them and will edit if I find something to back either one up. Erechtheus 17:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the first point, but as for the second, the 100-episode mark is a loose guideline, not a hard and fast rule. That number is mainly used for determining when to begin syndicating a still-running show. If a show finishes its run slightly short of that mark, it will still be syndicated if the company holding the syndication rights feels there's an audience for it. Generally 65 episodes is considered the bare minimum (since a show can then be shown five times a week for 13 weeks with no repeats) for viability in syndication, though even that one doesn't always hold true.Raymondluxuryacht 17:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Now that I'm looking at it, I think the main change that needs to happen with syndication is a link to the television syndication article. Erechtheus 17:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I have verified the ratings information utilizing Google Groups to search the archive of the alt.tv.newsradio Usenet group. Newsradio was a top 40 show even when it was moved to Sundays in season two. It was not until Season 3 debuted and the show moved to Wednesday that the ratings declined. I'm not positive I have worded things perfectly, but that's the best I can do this early in the morning. I'll have another look at it later. If anybody can say it better, please do. Erechtheus 06:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Speaking of Cheers...

The show was full of references to other sitcoms, from the obvious (the homage to Taxi in Matthew calling Joe "Tony Danza, Jr.", or the dig at Suddenly Susan in Joe telling Beth "there's a spunky redhead in every office") to the slightly subtle (Vicki Lewis doing Kathy Griffin's voice for her "I know" response to being told that there's a spunky redhead in every office) to the nobody's-going-to-get-this (the unfortunately unfulfilled plans to completely shuffle the show around after the fifth season, just like Cheers). While this is typical in animated shows, it seems to be pretty rare in traditional (meaning live-action) sitcoms. But I'm not sure if this is worth mentioning on the page, or how to fit it in.

(Now that I think about it, there are a lot of ways in which NewsRadio is more like a typical animated sitcom. It was funny, for one--and full of jokes that most of the audience weren't expected to get. The characters grew naturally, but almost nothing changed through a traditionally story arc. Like most animated characters, Dave always wore exactly the same clothes unless there was a specific joke in having him dress differently. There were episodes out of continuity, like "Space." And having an episode about Bill being censored for overusing the word "penis" too often actually getting postponed for a season because they refused to cut it down for the censors reminds me of, for example, South Park's recent Mohammed controversy.) --Falcotron 20:08, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think NewsRadio made it a point to refer to other sitcoms specifically; rather, they contained many references to pop culture in general, and some sitcom references would be naturally part of this. But you're right in that most live action sitcoms don't contain many cultural references (if any), while animated sitcoms tend to be very heavy with them. (I'm very curious on why that might be.) In either case, I think the comparison is worth noting in the article, though I have no idea how to fit it in.Raymondluxuryacht 21:23, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Not necessarily relevant (or reverent!) to your point, but structurally NewsRadio is similar to Night Court. A good guy-good girl-bad guy trio, surrounded by various crazies. Good guy and girl are frequently pitted against the schemes of bad guy, who also makes repeated unsuccessful advances on good girl. The theme songs are similar, too. Both were offbeat and contrasted with the more popular shows from the Must See line-ups of their times, though NewsRadio is darker and more satirical (thank you, Drake Sather!). Also, comparisons to animation, and comic books, include the references to the SuperKarateMonkeyDeathCar, Mr. James as D.B. Cooper, and the whole Johnny Johnson good-vs-evil story-line. Laszlo Panaflex 22:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, also, one could clearly see Lisa's frequent, plaintive cry of "Da-ave" as a touchstone to Mary Tyler-Moore's "Oh-hh, Rob" and "Oh-hh, Mr. Grant," whether intended or not. If I were to ever meet Maura Tierney, I would beg her to belt out a "Da-ave," you know, just for old time's sake. Laszlo Panaflex 00:03, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I seem to remember Paul Simms talking about how they originally expected to have lots of Mary Tyler Moore ripoffs^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hreferences, and were constantly surprised at how few they ended up writing. Anyway, I suspect the "Da-ave" was intentional, and maybe the MTM-ish faces and arm movements whenever she was flustered (because I've never seen her do that in any other character--which is a pity). But I'm pretty sure that both of them looking so good in capris was a coincidence. --Falcotron 09:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and I've never met Maura Tierney, but the first time Andy Dick, he agreed to do any character from NewsRadio except Matthew, so I asked him to do Lisa, and he said, "Da-ave, I wanna have a baby! Now! Come on, gimme some!" --Falcotron 09:17, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TBS Syndication

I noticed, with great excitement, that NewsRadio was on TBS on monday (October 2nd) at 1 p.m. Anybody know if this is going to be a regular addition to the TBS lineup? If so we should probably add a blurb about it after the Nike at Nite mention.Tigermave 20:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beyond Region 1

Does anyone have any information about any non Region 1 DVD releases for the article? I checked Amazon.co.uk, but they only had the NTSC version —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bdve (talk • contribs) 21:55, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] refrence question

in the Mikey Way page it states that he was a former cast member of this show and i couldent see it in the article so i am asking-- is it true cauz i dont think it is. Post on my talk page a reply if anyone answers. thamnksRazor romance 14:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, that's not what the article says.
"He and Gerard are maternal second cousins of Joe Rogan, host of the NBC game/stunt show Fear Factor and former cast member of the sitcom News Radio"
It's saying that Joe Rogan was a cast member, not Mikey Way. Which, of course, Rogan was.Raymondluxuryacht 18:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
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