Talk:Newbie

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[edit] Delete This

Interchanging 'noob' with 'newbie' but includes the "newb vs noob" argument meaning that there are several points in the article. In addition, interchanging is a 'bad' practice and the article should reflect the more 'popular' spelling (in this case, since the article is called "newbie" it all instances of noob should be replaced with "newbie". But even then, the internal debate over noob vs newbie isn't entirely resolve in article, as the term 'more' means an incomplete transformation. In addition to the fact that it is groundless information.

Massive amounts of POV information (Use of conditional terms like "may" is indicative of POV).

Reference of what is termed "leet" by wikipedia as "noob speak" resulting in conflicting articles and invalidity of the information. In order to revalidate this, the examples would have to reflect not the manner in which the content is spoken but the content it self.

Not a single valid reference. A book search is just a book search, it will not validate any information within the article. A comic is an invalid reference source, website entitled "newbie.org" would host POV inflicted information, and urbandict is a wiki and thus, invalid.

Self contradiction of the content within, highly noticeable with "Newbie vs Noob" and "froobie"

A Section of the article is prejudice against noobs and features stereotyped information.

And on a whole... this is a VERY bad articleMerranvo 22:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but I think this article should be torn appart and made into a modest and verifiable article instead of deleted. Cool Hand Luke 17:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Luke - that's exactly what happened to the 2000s article, full of largely unverifiable, muddled information, that was all removed and the article reduced into something short. I think we should do the same here.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 09:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
We should not delete this article - what we should do is reduce it to a stub, possibly just the first paragraph, and clean that up too.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 11:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I say this topic is too notable to be deleted. I have seen this article link from other websites several times. Due to this, and reasons reguarding the need of such a notice (too obstructive), I'm going to remove the tag. --hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 01:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

As said on deletion notice

Overall a very bad article for reasons listed in the talk section. Over this past week, wikipedian editors have added redundant additions without fixing current issues (and recently added an ad hominem attack). This article either needs to be torn limb from limb, reducing it to a definition (in addition to the removal of slang terminology (should be in association with "noob" not "newbie")) and historical usages. Of course, no one wants this...

--hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 01:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to add my voice to others and say "mend it, don't end it" -- let's try to fix this. My reasoning is also similar: I'm here because I didn't know what a noob is. I'm am improved as a person because this article is here, even with it's flaws (ok, that's a bit over the top but it's true even if overstated). Davemenc 01:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not true at all

"In World of Warcraft and most MMORPG's saying any variant of "noob" will earn the speaker an account ban. If it is said multiple times on multiple accounts on the same IP, the speaker will get an IP ban."

That is 100% Manwich.

 agreed, removing it

The origin of the word "Newb" and all its variants, come from the word "Newborn".

No it comes from the word "newcomer". Well "Alabama black snake" to be exact. --puppy441 - (lvl 80)OnRS 14:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of newb

The origin of the word "Newb" and ll its variants, come from the word "Newborn".-MG

No it comes from "newcomer". puppy441 - (lvl 80)OnRS 14:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I've also read that the term comes from British public school slang. I think it is much older than hacker or gamer slang. Would be a good thing to research. DonPMitchell 07:38, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Noobs in gaming

Alot of the complaints included in the "Noobs in internet gaming section" aren't so much noob behavior as they are just plain asshole behavior. I agree on the stuff about noobs not knowing how to play, but screaming into the voice enabled games really isn't a noob characteristic so much as an asshole characteristic. And the part about taking advantage of cheats or bugs...newbs tend to not know nearly enough about the game to take advantage of a bug in the game. That is in direct contrast with just about every other complaint listed. There is also the section about poor sportsmanship; alot of professional sports players have terribly poor sportsmanship but all the same are far from being a noob. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.33.136.81 (talk) 15:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] does not always mean new player!!!!!

The term noob does not always mean a new player in runescape, for instance it has just meant to mean a universal negative term for someone. For instance many people are called noobs if they are beggars, hackars or scammers.

also the terms newb, noob, and froob are different

newb means new player. noob means that they are not noob yet act like a newb. froob means that there a freacking noob, fcking noob, or freebie noob Conspiricy2 14:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)conspiricy2

[edit] This does have important info though

Newbie and Noob are both hot words on many Internet games and in chat rooms right now, and let's face it, if someone has been dubbed one of the above, I would like to see them use Wikipedia to realize a mistake and not become especially the latter. So you really cannot delete this entry ... just clean it up and keep it simple. However, the little examples of "noob speak" are totally inappropriate. Also, I think for the ease of reading the article itself, it would be better to move all other terms for newbie and noob to a list or table at the bottom of the page. Personally I did not know about the military usages (prior to online usage) so maybe that could go above all the arguing about individual usages in online games, etc. Like it or not, this has become part of our culture and yes, there are people who will come here earnestly wanting to learn about newbies and noobs ...~ ica616, dated 2/21/07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ica616 (talk • contribs).

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. -- KirinX 15:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Too many tags!

At my count, this article has 6 unflattering tags attached to it. Folks, its an article about a word in Internet culture. It can't be held to the same encylcopedic standard of perfection as an article about, say, oxygen. Are ALL of these tags, it has unverified claims, it isn't professional, yatta yatta yatta, really necessary? Sloverlord 21:15, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

This article, like any Wikipedia article, should be held to the same encyclopedic standard. The amount of cleanup-related tags simply shows just how often trash info is added to this article, and just how little information should be in this article once it is properly dealt with by some brave soul. -- KirinX 05:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm surprised there isn't a tag which says "This article has too many unflattering tags"... Bill D 23:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Dangit, you beat me to that one, Bill. (Uncyclopedia has naturally filled the void left by the absence of a "too many templates" template. Wait, what? Never mind.) — Lenoxus 04:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Is there a discussion about what standards are appropriate in an online encyclopedia somewhere? I feel frustrated that we have a COMPLETELY new thing here that is trying to adhere to academic standards appropriate to the last century. Granted, we need SOME standards. But can we adjust them to fit the circumstances? The word "noob" (or "newb" or "newbie" or whatever) is a case in point. Where are you going to find a PHD discussing this subject in published work -- and would we care what he thought if he did!? Geez! :) Davemenc 00:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Encyclopædic tone

I really am not up to completely fixing this myself, I will admit, but I really think this article lacks an encyclopædic tone throughout most of the text. There are far too many examples, and not enough information on things like its significance as a term. Many of these examples are provided to explain trivial concepts. For instance, the RuneScape example could easily be restated in a more suitable manner as something like "higher-level characters often call those at lower levels noob." That said, I think it rather silly to add yet another tag to the vast array already present, especially considering that these templates were not made with the idea that they should cover the first screen rendered. In the intrest of sanity, could we clip a few of them, or at least defer their presence until more important ones (like NPOV) are resolved? Falcon 05:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Large edit

I removed the social rejection/acceptance and newb vs noob topics and added a usage topic. the original paragraphs are in comments if anyone wants to use them. DYE_Slayer 06:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Should Noob have it's own article?

It seems to me that this could be considerably simplified and improved if we created a separate article for "noob" and, possibly, for "froob". This article is about "newbie" and, based on what I've read here, "newb".

The distinctions among noob, newbie (which I believe has the same meaning as "newb") and froob can best be made clear by having separate pages for them.

I should note that I'm no expert in Wikipedia rules (although I'm gradually educating myself) so please feel free to set me straight if you disagree.

Davemenc 01:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

While I understand that this is a concern, many of the variations are used interchangeably by different people, so I can't see the differentiation being useful. It would also be a problem given the way that people post their variations on the word in the article so often - if we then had 2-4 articles to maintain rather than one, this would make it more difficult. There's no problem with the Wikipedia rules (by the way, WP:IAR), but I think that this has a certain potential to be counterproductive if implemented. Nihiltres 15:11, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] N00b

I'm on a website where both the words Newbie and N00b are used.

N00b(also knwon as noob/boon=noob spelled backwards to get past chat blocks)-A person that is not a newb yet act like a newb.

Newbie-A new person.

BIG diffrence.

[edit] Urban Dictionary

Anyone have an idea on how reliable that site is? FMF|contact 23:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commented-out section moved from article

Section was hidden with comment "this seems to not fit with the article". I agree, and per comments further up the page think the article would be best off reduced in size and rewritten. This section is unacceptable, and I think could easily go completely, so I've taken it out. Given that it was hidden from view already, I haven't substantially altered the article as it appears to readers, so I don't think this is too big a step – Qxz 21:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Noobs in Internet gaming

{{Unreferenced|date=February 2007}}

In gaming, the following behavior is usually associated with noobs.

  • Not knowing what a noob is.
  • Going online without playing through the game's tutorial and annoying the other players by continually asking questions on how to play.
  • Poor sportsmanship: noobs might communicate explicit/racial/prejudicial comments to the victorious parties, in situations where the newbies lose. Blame might be redirected to an external phenomenon, such as a latency (a.k.a. lag) spike. Other poor sportsmanship actions include disconnecting in a game once victory is deemed impossible (albeit this may prevent statistics from being recorded, both for the victors and the losers). In team games, newbies might team kill (sometimes called "gank", meaning 'Gang Kill' {{Fact|date=February 2007}}) or use items intended to be used on enemies (such as flashbangs in Counter-Strike) on friendly players to vent their frustration.
  • Giving personal information that is fabricated or is not actually true. For example, a "noob" may claim that they are a "football player" and "could beat you up in real life", among countless other claims of "real life" superiority.
  • Looking for sexual companionship online. It is common to see a "noob" requesting a "gf" or "bf" (girlfriend/boyfriend); the noob is usually adamant in pursuing someone they desire as their "gf" or "bf", especially after the person of their desire expresses a disinterest or disgust over the noob's affection.
  • The inclination to shout random phrases when voice is enabled, that may be nonsensical and/or use an overwhelming amount of explicit language.
  • Little or no use of team tactics, or understanding how to cooperate.
  • Not understanding the game environment. This includes not understanding the concept of friendly and hostile players, combat/trading zones and non-combat/trading zones, or ignorance to game world rules regarding player conduct, e.g, team-killing.
  • Not understanding how to play without breaking some basic formal rules, created by the players a long time ago, such as in games like Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy.
  • Not understanding why they get killed so soon or why they cannot kill anyone, in games like Counter-Strike or Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy.
  • A tendency to utilize cheating programs or glitches in the game program, after a period of frustration experienced from getting beaten by veterans.
  • A tendency to require the quick fix solution.
  • A tendency to act like a certain place in a map belongs to an individual. This occurs very often in MMORPGs, as a lot of players want to level up their characters quickly without being bothered.
  • A tendency to impersonate a Moderator in order to obtain "free stuff" (this mostly on games like RuneScape) or "res (resurrection)" (this on games like World of Warcraft). Newbies do this very often when being hazed by veterans, who in turn haze them even more. Impersonation often leads to their removal from the game.
  • A tendency to claim the possession of various kinds of resources. This usually occurs in multiplayer games in which players are competing for resources and supplies. One common example is stealing supplies from allies in RTS games.
  • A tendency of turtling in RTS games. This may be due to their "concern" in losing the game or just simply a lack of tactics.
  • Using vehicles when explosives/rocket launchers/grenade launchers are not present, Giving the players in the vehicles a huge advantage in some games

Utilization of noob or n00b as an insult is very similar in act being called a troll; certain actions trigger someone's "noob" or "n00b" label, as a form of group insult.

Noob generally describes a player's current behavior rather than his level of game experience. Although apparently originating from reactions to the ignorance among new players, its usage extends to high-level players who act similarly, and invalid with new players who lack apparent foolishness. For low levels the more correct term Newbie is used, although not always.

=)

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