Talk:New Zealand Police

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[edit] New Recruits

If someone with reasonable knowledge of current recruitment versus attrition could provide factual figures to this article. I have an unsubstanciated figure of 1500 people leaving the New Zealand Police force recently while 1000 front line staff were promised in the recent election. There has been some discussion that the 1000 additional staff may not all be sworn officers

219.89.177.137 02:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Also another figure of currently 40 people leaving the police each month. Does anyone have actual figures?

Zven 10:22, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 111 details

I have moved the details of the 111 controversy to 1-1-1 as I think it is more appropriate there. -- FP <talk><edits> 08:05, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. The controversy concerns the performance of the Police Communications Centres and the Police operational response to calls for assistance. Although many of the calls came via the 111 system, not all of them did, and the issues dealt with were much more about the Police and had very little to do with the 111 system, other than the Police's performance answering 111 calls. I propose moving the content back and changing the heading to be more appropriate. -- Cameron Dewe 07:56, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I considered which article to add the material to in the first place, and it seemed a better fit here. I had in mind also adding stuff about the rape allegations, the "sick culture" and the email abuse, but I got sidetracked into other things. I'm pleased to see you've written the material. In the longer term it probably needs to be put into perspective somehow; criticism of them is vital, but we still have one of the least corrupt police forces in the world.-gadfium 08:54, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The controversy over the Police Commissioner who was alleged to have said "That won't be necessary" about a breath test after his partner and he were stopped (and the claims he said that were withdrawn) might be added too.-gadfium 08:57, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lack of balance

This whole section seems to me (as a non-New Zealander) to be very POV and one-sided. It really does read as if it's been written by someone with an axe to grind. It seems odd to write "The New Zealand Police force is considered one of the least corrupt Police forces in the world" and then have half the article devoted to controversies. More about the force itself would be nice. -- Necrothesp 18:10, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As a New Zealander, we think our police force is mostly okay, but we're deeply shocked when there's the occasional betrayal of our trust in them. This is a reaction to recent allegations and relevations about sections of the police; given time, the article will become more balanced.-gadfium 09:38, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
New Zealand Police have come under severe criticism in the last year. The controversies listed are highly topical at the moment, although they are probably nothing out of the ordinary compared to other Police forces around the world. I expect, in time, that these controversies will fade into historical notes. However, at present the psychic wounds of apparent betrayal are rather raw and a bit of POV needs to be tolerated while spleens are vented, etc. Compared to local NZ Media coverage, this article is quite NPOV. I doubt it can be toned down much further without it being considered to have a POV in favour of Police. Further toning down at this time may encourage others to make it more NPOV (or, rather, less Police POV). Please give this article some time to evolve before NPOV'ing too much. -- Cameron Dewe 10:16, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but no, "a bit of POV" does not need "to be tolerated while spleens are vented, etc"! Put the POV here, if you must, not in the article. Better still, have a rant on a more appropriate website. This is an encyclopaedia - comparing it to local media coverage is ridiculous. The media write things to sell papers and pander to public opinion; they are almost by definition POV. We, on the other hand, write things to record facts. At the moment, the article is completely unbalanced and reads as though the controversy is more important than anything else, which for a police force with a 165 year history is blatantly not the case. For example, in the section headed "Communications Centres Performance" we have a list of nine specific incidents. Do we really need this much detail? Again, it sounds like it's been written by someone with an axe to grind and that is not appropriate here. If there's controversy, then record it, but don't let it dominate the article. I'm not going to NPOV it for now in the hope that someone from New Zealand will do it first, but I will if it stays like this for much longer. -- Necrothesp 12:30, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The article is actually written with a neutral POV; the problem is that it is unbalanced, because it gives so much coverage to events of the last few years which put the police in a bad light. The solution may be to split the recent controversies into its own article, but I think it's still too early for that. Let it settle a bit first.-gadfium 20:45, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The controversies listed under "Communications Centres Performance" are very topicial. As another New Zealander I can assure you that they are relevant and that such detail is warranted - for the time being. Goldfinger820 23:15, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
One possible option is to move the section about Recent controversies to another article e.g. New Zealand Police controversies linked from the New Zealand Police article. A time line of controversial events can then be written in that article. Currently half the article is on controversies. Speaking of controversies, theres no section on speed cameras.
Zven 03:13, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Motorway Patrol

Is the Motorway Patrol a seperate unit or part of the Highway Patrol unit or just another name for the Highway Patrol unit? Nil Einne 12:21, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Not sure, I think they're just part of the Highway Patrol. AS I live in Hawkes Bay I don't see them much (no motorways here). Lisiate 06:58, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

No. Motorway Patrol is a separate entity from Highway Patrol. Motorways is run by the North Shore/Waitakere District and operates out of the Harbour Bridge and Ellerslie Patrol Bases.

[edit] Police control on military

Quote in article; "Even if the incident controller calls in the SAS, an armed incident remains the jurisdiction of the New Zealand Police, with the IC having go/no-go control over the regiment's response team. The incident at Aramoana saw the Police request mobilisation of the SAS, but the incident was successfully resolved before they actually responded".

I maybe wrong, however I have always been led to believe if there was ever a terrorist incident inwhich the police could not deal with and the Police had handed it over to the NZDF, that it was a military operation until the incident was delt with and then handed back to the Police. Once it becomes a military operation I find it really hard to believe that the Police would have control over such a unit, and as for the Aramoana incident, was it succesful? As I said, I maybe wrong,only my opinion.13:09, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, I would imagine that once the operation was handed over to the SAS then it is out of police control. Regarding the Aramoana massacre, I believe SergeantStewart Graeme Guthrie had the opportunity to shoot first but followed protocol with a challenge which led to the loss of his life. --Zven 23:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taser trial period

I will start putting in content (when I get time) about the taser trial commencement, opposition to (briefly identifying opposing groups) , and first use of in New Zealand, possibly including reported family response to its use. I will put it under the controversies header for now, but that may not be the most appropriate header. --Zven 19:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I feel this should be a separate section, not within Controversies. I'm not disputing that the use of tasers is controversial, but it doesn't seem to me to fit within that section.-gadfium 09:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Moved --Zven 10:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

Other linkout sources need to be converted to references... --Zven 07:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok started this, but all references need to refer to the article title, Author, Source and date --Zven 09:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Police flag image

Need a flag again since the image has been deleted by someone --Zven 21:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] airport patrols packing.

NZ police that are partroling airports are now carrying firearms. (handgun/pistol) im pretty sure that its just airports that handle international operations.

[edit] Update of Controversies Section needed?

Is it about time that this section was edited and updated? The items listed are isolated and mostly very old news but the space and detail devoted to them gives an unbalanced focus to the article. The New Zealand Police force has its faults but it deserves less biased reporting than this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.246.12.89 (talk) 00:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

I agree. I've reduced the detail in the Communications_Centres_performance section significantly. The Historic_sexual_misconduct section should be similarly condensed, with the references moved to Louise Nicholas. What happened to the trial of the same men for a different alleged incident?-gadfium 07:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
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