Talk:New Utopia
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This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-03-04. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
new informtion it (looks like the uk website print it before us webiste do) like why the consrtion not started
http://www.new-utopia.co.uk/UK%20PNU%20Site%20Page%20Q&A.htm
The "exchange rate" for this island is quoted at being USD$125 to every New Utopian Crown.
"the above statement is inaccurate" the exchange rate for the crown will be pegged at the gold value of the crown, which will be backed 100% by gold."
The website is targeted towards right-wing capitalists; it is quoted as say "[d]espite the patriotic propaganda we were all spoon-fed as kids all men are NOT created equal... It guarantees them all an equal vote regardless of whether they be veterans or draft dodgers, hard working taxpayers or lazy ne'er-do-wells. Their votes are protected under the U.S. constitution and directly cancel out and outnumber the votes of the citizen taxpayers they continue to bleed."
it look like the passport papers change and they want a register of if you marry or not and your military experince feels like its a mecanarchy army stuff..
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[edit] new utopia outdated in 2007
9/11 and UAE projectes(actuly looks like they have take the ideas abut tourism, shopping and tax free zone from nu website)make this a 90s idea
did they lost investores becuse of the hurccain seasson is back in a 30 year cyckel of hard storms?how can fox news libertarian objectivist and reasson thinktank/cato think tank libertarains live in same place all this schools of libertanism have had links on this website
the britsh website have not been updated have he sued him becuse the project never take of ? or do global warming make a project like this hard and just very ritch companys/kings can make it like the ideas of the reem island in abudabhi? --the sonic----81.191.97.72 21:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Government of New Utopia
The Constitution of the Principality of New Utopia was signed July 20, 1999. Signing the document were H.R.M. Prince Lazarus, H.R.M. Princess Maureen, John Howard Long, T.M (Bud) Skillern, Matt Kristof, Jeffrey Schott, Jay Hopcus, Ronald Kimball, Michael McDonnough, and Richard W. Morris.
The New Utopia Attorney General is Dick Morris.
[edit] Consulates
- Andorra - Inka Malin
- Australia - David McILwraith (www.timeandmotion.com.au/pnu)
- Austria - Inka Malin
- Belarus - Paul and Inna Pravosud
- Cambodia - Joshua Allen W. L. Chung
- Canada - Igor'e Rissond
- China - Albert Tam
- Costa Rica - Jonathan Curshen
- Cyprus - Tony Nicodemous (pnu-uk.gq.nu)
- Denmark - Rene Holmgren
- England - Tony Nicodemous (pnu-uk.gq.nu)
- Germany - Inka Malin
- Greece - Tony Nicodemous (pnu-uk.gq.nu)
- Hong Kong - Joshua Allen W. L. Chung
- Latvia - Paul and Inna Pravosud
- Lebanon - Stephano Haj
- Liechtenstein - Dirk Hinse
- Moldova - Paul and Inna Pravosud
- Netherlands - Peter Gasseling
- Portugal - Klaus Kumor
- Romania - Ileana Hinse-Coman
- Russia - Paul and Inna Pravosud
- Singapore - Nicholas Lim
- Spain - Klaus Kumor
- Switzerland - Dirk Hinse
- Taiwan - Stephen Ohlander
- Thailand - Joshua Allen W. L. Chung
- Thaumaturgy - Inka Malin
- Ukraine - Paul and Inna Pravosud
- United States, AZ - Christopher Lewis
- United States, CA - Ralf G. Thomaier (www.deutsche-GoldMark.de)
- United States, TX - Michael Ruiz
- Vietnam - Joshua Allen W. L. Chung
[edit] VfD debate
For the vfd debate related to this article see Talk:New Utopia/delete -- Graham ☺ | Talk 17:03, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] NPOV
Check out the original version of the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=New_Utopia&oldid=4184312
You'll see it doesn't make presumptions that this is a valid project, as its website only claims it is valid. In fact, it always states new information will be available next summer or in the next few months. There is more than enough evidence to show that the site's claims are false, and that its associated companies and investors exist in name only. But in order to retain a neutral, non-biased point of view, recent changes have made the article treat the project and all statements as if they were real. While I can appreciate this, I feel it is misleading as a whole. New Utopia is not simply a planned project; it is a highly questionable and intentionally vague series of misinformation meant to syphon money from the overly ambitious and hopeful. Many have wasted money on the $1500 citizenship fee and currency motivated by hope alone, with no solid evidence on the site to support anything other than a group of people living in Texas and running a bogus website.
I believe the falsity of the project, and the disinformation it causes should be the emphasis of the article, rather than treating New Utopia as a plausible reality. It may appear more biased, but would result in being far more factual, I believe. Ihavenolife
- There are also factual errors in this article. The SEC charges were not "dropped". In fact Mr. Long or as he was previously known Mr. Turney admitted to defrauding $24,000 but stated he could not pay it because he was destitute.[1]. This must be clarified. — © Alex756 14:07, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Is there really a NPOV debate going on? I don't see a lot of revert wars or debate about accuracy going on over at the article There is quite a lot of mention of the fact that many think it is a scam, or else that Lazaraus Long could be deluded. There is also reference to the proposed principality's attempts to claim legitimacy.
Would it be a good idea to take the NPOV warning off? --SV Resolution 18:10, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Scam Something for Nothing
New Utopia is the name of a proposed city state to be built on the Misteriosa Banks, approximately 120 miles west of Grand Cayman in the Carribean. In this area, there are submerged mountain tops between 4 and 20 meters below the ocean's surface. Building in this area would not be especially difficult. If the area were free of State claims, a new city/country could be built there.
This plan was put together by an American man by the name of Lazarus Long. (A name he took from Robert Heinlein's fictional hero.) Mr. Long's original name was Howard Turney. Mr. Long, originally from Oklahoma, says he found out about the Misteriosa Banks accidentally while pursuing a business deal in Grand Cayman. He shortly thereafter came up with the idea of building a new country there. (The idea of starting a new country has drawn a great number of freedom-seeking people into its grasp.)
Mr. Long has set up his prospective new country as a Constitutional Principality, modeled after Monaco. He calls himself Prince, and his wife Princess. He has set up his son to succeed him as Prince.
Information sources:
ScamDog.com knows has had extensive correspondence and many conversations with Mr. Long, his wife, and others deeply involved with New Utopia (members of the New Utopia Board of Governors and others).
New Utopia web pages: http:www.new-utopia.com
The Facts:
According to a trusted associate, an extensive legal search done in 1999 found that the Misteriosa Banks belonged to the Cayman Islands. (ScamDog.com is working to secure a copy of this report.) Mr. Long was well-informed of this, and chooses to ignore it. He chooses to ignore it because he is in posession of detailed facts confirming that the territory IS in International waters.
Mr. Long has exhibited a pattern of informing his associates (and the public) of all positive results, while minimizing, ignoring or explaining away every negative result or evidence. He has left his associates hanging in the open more than once.
Opinion:
The idea of building a new city in a place like the Misteriosa Banks is a good one. This type of project that could be done, and perhaps should be done. Lazarus deserves credit for coming up with this idea.
Some reasons:
Under his original name Howard Turney, Lazarus was involved in a number of questionable investment offerings. There have been very many of them, and many of them turned out badly. As of late 1999, Lazarus/Howard was being sued by at least three people in Houston. (ScamDog.com possesses copies of the court filings.) He was further being investigated by the FBI in the US. A number of people are very angry with him. They insist that he swindled them. According to the court papers, Mr. Long's health is not good.
Howard Turney (Lazarus) was the subject of an unflattering article in the Wall Street Journal several years ago. (ScamDog.com possesses copies.)
New Utopia was investigated and shut down by the US Security Exchange Commission in 1998, for attempting to naively sell bonds not in accordance with SEC rules. Lazarus ultimately settled with them (we are unaware of the terms), but in the process, he turned over the names of all his investors to the US Government. This was done without their consent, and with no warning.
This project, which seemed viable in 1998, has steadily stagnated. There can be no more claim of ignorance ("we thought we could build there"), and the rhetoric coming from New Utopia emails is sounding more and more like an open-faced scam. Even the architect who drew up the plans says he hasn't been paid; yet Lazarus continues talking about construction beginning very soon. In early 2001, an urgent plea for more money was made.
It does take a long time to raise money for a project like that and it would be a paradise for gated comunity companies since you can make your own laws on your own propety and you can buy up the rights for tv and radio, you can get licences for casino and since the constitution was drafted can get you civil libertys. It will also be a good place for all kind of refugees (if some gated comunity or other type of business leas land of the goverment something you can do for 99 years that needs a scure place for the writing or religion.
And look at the United Kingdom version of the website ! It looks like it gets more real by the day just that it market it as some kind of alternative to spain retriment village.
but the austrilan website(that are now closed dowen) looked more like a working visa program or a inevstement program maybe a palce you can get a second start not so much libertarin thinsg ther as on the main website
And they have started to construct houses in New Utopia. (See website)
Why would anybody waste their time in writing a counstitution and trust/comapny laws and be on tv (like the bbc) if it was a fraud ? The UK Consul has been in UK local papers and on BBC2 and holds many informations about New Utopia. Also, the Top London Barrister has afffirmed the validity of the terrotorial rights that New Utopia has over the Misteriosa Banks.
- Why? If people beleive you might have a viable idea, you might get on television, you might be able to raise money. The fact that a barrister has alleged that there is some laim does not mean that it would be recognized in international law, barristers loose all the time. Don't believe everything you hear on television. Alex756
but now you can buy land ther http://www.misteriosashire.com/leasing.html (should the link be added to the artickel ?) wher you can maker your owen subcutlure comunity or you owen rules why sombody that not make a real project do this since it will probely get a lot of ectenrich milionars, mony clean foks, gureilla gruops , and hedonistic outcast to buy and make ther utopia real and this will be just ask for trubel and lawsuites if they keep do Leasing in 4 years and not make it real ...
so why have not any of the investores sued them or those foks that was suposed to invest 1 milion us dollar?since 10% of its citizens are amaricans and the rest are from around the world or sued them to get accese to ther database ?i guss it would be intresting network of creative hard working open minede pepol for govemernts that have industry/freetrade zones just like countrys like shchezen in china and buch of fail projects made zones for fincaes and creative imigrantes and britihis coulmbia in canda and polyniesa island made programs for foks that wanted to leave hong kong before it got under china
21:37, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
So what will it take for someone like Alex756 to beleieve this is a genuine project ? After all, The Palm & The World project in Dubai also received derisive feedback in its' early days by those POP's (Project Prevention Officers) and negative mongers and then when it sprung out the water those negativers were no where to be found. There are a lot of us working our asses off behind the scenes trying to make this project a reality and I am certain that one day soon, it will be so. Shay Lotan, the Top London Barrister, has not said there is 'some' claim. He has researched the topic thoroughly and found that there is no claim that can possibly made to dispute that New Utopia have a fully valid claim against the territory. Shay Lotan has put his reputation on the line. What more will it take - The Lord Jesus coming back to earth for Alex756 to believe it ?
- What it will take for any reasonable person to believe New Utopia is "genuine" is simple: some actual physical evidence that it is something other than more than a decade's worth of hot air and 1 lonely marker buoy floating in the Carribbean. Given New Utopia's history to date, pleas for divine intervention are probably a good idea. --Gene_poole 03:44, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
i guss if not they start somthing in 2008/2006 they will get sued for fraud and identety theif becuese at that time you have to renew your passport i think and haveing id for 500 passports could eh be a image probelm after 9/11 and i sue loving america
[edit] Dates
He just releases more "news" every year to give the impression of actual progress, rather than having an old outdated website with the same date. Like a movie advertisement that says "Coming Soon" every year but never shows up. The guy makes a lot of money selling "currency" and "passports" to the gullible, and his funds have been suspended before due to fraud. Two things can happen, either an investor speaks out and sues him, or an independent team documents what progress has actually been made. So far, it looks like just him and his wife in Texas and a PO Box where he gets his checks from people that find his website.
[edit] One Fresh Opinion
Who am I? No one really. A hard-working, tax-paying mother of 3 who happens to know Prince Lazarus personally (and some of his associates) for about yes, a decade now. I have seen many documents with my own eyes that prove New Utopia is real. And also an extremely difficult and completely amazing project in the works. Project is really such a small word for it. Anyway, I know enough to swear New Utopia's authenticity on a bible, to the U.S. Supreme Court as well as The Pope. There have been countless people in history who's amazing dreams were harshly criticized, and yet those dreams are now today's reality. I think people of my generation, and my parents, so easily forget that it wasn't that long ago electricity was discovered, and everything that came with it after it. We are so tuned into the T.V., the internet, the media, the clubs and groups we know, we are so tuned into those that we lose our own imaginations, and with that are own creativity. And sadly, the ability to see, accept, and nurture others'. By the way, 'scamdog.com', while helpful in it's right sometimes, has criticized other projects that have proved to be successful. So have many other fearful, small-minded people. And they never were able to produce much the paperwork they claimed existed and tried to obtain, because it doesn't exist. A little more open-minded inspection has led many serious investors to leap into projects such as New Utopia and Dubai. What did they find out that the haters missed out on?
HOW LONG TIME BEFORE IT GET REAL?
at what time will it get real when they started in 1997 will it many more dealys just make foks and invetsores that was intrested lose ther passion and start to sue becuse of outdated passports or nothing happens ? and why did the papers for get citizenship change over the last 5 years ?now you have write more detaily abut if you have been a soilder and if you had have problems whit the court and i think more info abut if you have grilfrind or divorced what is civil libertainism in this ? or will it be a center for pirvat armys and give its citizens sex workers vouchers when they vote on change the counstuion? what other project did scamdog complian abut but did work ?
