Talk:New Trier High School

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Contents 1 Removal of the Pranks Section 2 Removal of the Marijuana Use Story 3 New Trier Township, Illinois 4 Pranks 5 Notable alumni 5.1 Samuel L. Jackson 6 Misinformation about a prank 7 The best non-selective public high school in Illinois 8 Pop Culture References? 9 Student Alliance Officers, etc. 10 Demographics 11 My recent edits 12 My recent edits (Part 2) 13 NPOV dispute [===Adam Hoffman: Fallen Leader===] 14 Source? 15 Source? part deux 16 Copy Edit and Suggestions 17 Uniformity 18 Activities 19 Hal Sparks? 20 Outlaws v. Trevians 21 Student Activities

[edit] Removal of the Pranks Section

the section should be brought back.

Given the amount of misinformation and speculation (see below) that makes up the Pranks section of this article and the fact that even accurate information about past pranks that really did occur does not add any encyclopedic value to this article, I recommend removing that section. Few if any other high school pages have such a section. User: AMHoffman

I second AMHoffman's remarks about removing the pranks section. The only one that is significant and verifiably true is the master key prank, but that's not really encyclopedic. At the very least, we should remove everything but the key prank. Qslack 05:41, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

• I'm going to remove the unsubstantiated pranks unless anyone objects. sqs 00:30, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
• It certainly may not be "significant" per se, but I can verify as true the "Haloween Havoc" prank of '94.
• Also not "significant" but I can verify that in the mid 80's a trashcan full of water was poured down the main stairwell during passing period more than once, and Butyric acid was poured on library tables. Crypticfirefly 05:09, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Given the complete dearth of information critical to the environment at New Trier, I would like to see the pranks section stay, albeit with a discussion on the effects of hypercompetitveness among the suburban elite. Perhaps also something referencing the high property values in the area would put the school's impressive resources in perspective? User: Ickydog

Keep the pranks section.

Keep the prant section. THe pig one is definently true. My cousin was there when it happened.

I.M.H.O., You folks should reference Pranks. Just saw the story on Mtv, and curiousity brought me here. No reference to the incident and its resolution would be disappointing. A cover-up by the "Suburban Elite" perhaps?  :o)

[edit] Removal of the Marijuana Use Story

It disgusts me as an alumni of New Trier High School that people can be as ignorant enough to want to delete and hide facts about this school. It is not benefiting anyone to pretend that such things did not ever happen in terms of pranks and drug use within this township and maybe those of you should re-evaluate your own judgments. Let us not censorthis story as we have already sensored so many important stories and facts that add to historical and cultural significance. By deleting the section what are you gaining? This is an online encyclopedia, do you not think that students can access the article anywhere else? Welcome to the 21st century your censorship is ruining the people who should be propsering chances to expand academically.

In principle I, for one, agree with 69.44.62.216's decision to remove this section. That said, please forewarn other users of any decision to remove entire sections from the article. User:AMHoffman

Be aware, user Slo-mo has a strange fascination with the marijuana use section of this article. Many have deleted it as it is clearly misleading, as it shines a bright light on an insignificant and common aspect of any suburban high school. Slo-mo also makes many useful edits and then vandalizes the same pages. If you revert his misinformation, he reports you to admins as a vandal. Very wrong, be warned! watch out! User:64.34.166.88

I too disagree with Slo-mo's edits of this section. He seems to continually violate the 3RR policy. A majority of users seem to disagree with his judgements. What do people think about deleting it? By the way, Slo-mo and 24.13.56.195 appear to be the same person. -chuckp 11/27

I don't understand the controversy. This topic was the subject of a major national magazine's cover story. It was also the subject of many followup stories conducted by local and national media. It is part of the history and culture of the school and should remain in the entry. -sk 1/17/06

The marijuana section, as it currently stands (last edit 00:33, 18 January 2006) gives no sense of the controversy surrounding the original Time Magazine article. Rather, it flatly states as uncontested fact that "New Trier Township High School is notorious for having a student body that regularly uses drugs." I was a student at New Trier at the time, and Time's 60% figure struck everyone as ridiculous. It was believable to us that perhaps 60% of the student body had at some point tried marijuana, but that 3/5ths of students smoked it regularly—which is what was clearly suggested in the article—seemed more than a bit outrageous. At the very least, their figure was poorly worded (and I believe the authors later admitted as much).

Moreover, aside from several sensationalistic touches, the intent of the article was not to portray New Trier as somehow exceptional in its levels of drug use, but rather to hold it up as emblematic of the problems schools across the nation face; if a school in such an affluent community, with such priveleged students and with nearly unlimited depth of resources struggles with a drug problem, what hope does an inner city school, fraught by gang violence and operating on a shoe string budget, have? From the article:

"If teenage drug use were the kind of problem a school could solve, New Trier would probably ace it..."

"The school does what it can to insulate its students... But even a wealthy, concerned alma mater like New Trier can't fill the shoes of parents who either don't care that their kids are smoking or fail at the task of stopping them. 'How could a school eradicate it?' asks New Trier's superintendent, Henry S. Bangser. 'Schools have a responsibility to address the problem, but students didn't learn to do drugs here, and mostly they don't do it here.'"

Even aside from the facts, though, the overall tone of this Wikipedia section reaks of rhetoric and opinion. To wit: "destroyed its credibility," "hand wringing routine" and "unless ACT scores start dropping... not much is going to be done." I don't feel the section ought to be removed (for the reasons sk states above), but I do think it needs to be shaped up quite a bit to, at the very least, give a sense of the full shape of the controversy. 70.236.225.228 18:15, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

You are correct that the author admitted that 3/5ths statistic had been used/described incorrectly -- Graff said as much on the air on WNTH. My recollection is that many plugged-in people saw that statistic in the article and realized instantly what it was really meant to describe: the fraction of students who had EVER used marijuana. I've made appropriate edits for some more color on the community reaction and the soft semi-retraction of the statistic made by the author on the air.

[edit] New Trier Township, Illinois

There is an article at New Trier Township, Illinois that needs major work. Some of it is specifically about his high school, and should be merged here. Other parts are apparently about a township which consists of several seperate villages. I'm not familiar with the governmental structure of Illinois, but if anyone is, they are encouraged to help clean this article up. --BaronLarf 01:22, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

I go to school at New Trier, and as far as I know, there is no such thing as a "New Trier Township". It's just a name used to unite the five main feeder towns/villages into one entity (if that's the right word...). Hope that helped. Peaceman 8 July 2005 04:21 (UTC)

The actual name of the high school is New Trier Township High School, and a complete article exists under the title New Trier Township High School. The article is complete, but paints a fairly rosy picture of the school, which many students and faculty might dispute. New Trier Township refers to the 5 town area served by New Trier Township High School.--68.21.178.113 16:49, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

New Trier Township refers to the taxing body that sends high school kids to New Trier Township Highschool.

[edit] Pranks

I'm a NT alum, 2002. I was always under the impression that the pranks involving pigs, cows, and cars were urban legends- when I went to college I heard dozens of similar stories, but I don't think I've ever met an eyewitness of a 1,2,4 pig prank. I was there for the key gag, though. Chicago 16:42, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

The key prank was featured on an episode of MTV's "High School Stories." It used to be referenced on this page; why isn't it anymore? I feel like its significant. Plus, it was pretty amazing. -Elizabennet 17:40, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The pig event occurred in th emid 90s. My cousin was there. She said one of the pigs actually had a heart attack and school employees spent hours searching for pig #3, which never existed.

I attended NT from '79-'81 and moved '82. I had a good friend who's dad attended NT and was personally involved in assembling a VW in the second floor rotunda at East. Another friend was involved in unscrewing the lug nuts on "secret squirrels" (school hired narc) Suburban as a senior prank. He had quite the ride.

[edit] Notable alumni

I removed the murderers from this section because they are not notable according to the definition from Merriam Websters New World Dictionary. Notable as an adjective means, "worthy of notice; remarkable; outstanding." Let's stick with this definition.

I see things added to this section that seem fairly legit only to be subsequently removed as "vanity listings" I'm curious what the criteria for this are since some of those seem at least fairly notable. Fall Out Boy is pretty well known, Grammy-nominated musical group for example, and has it's own entry in Wikipedia, as do the individual band members. Meanwhile, who the hell is Ann Hampton Callaway?

Ann Callaway was a participant in the performing arts at New Trier and went on to be on Broadway. Her name is up on the MCGee wall. If she does have her own article, she deserves to be mentioned. cjcj

In fact whoever performed this edit was not signed in so I wonder who is acting as arbiter here as well.

I think that Pete Wentz should have something written about how he only was at NT for freshmen year; this isn't an advert so it's not like we need it to look better than it is DrSatan 18:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Samuel L. Jackson

Regarding the latest edit to this effect, I can't find any evidence that he went to New Trier. sqs 15:42, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misinformation about a prank

About the master key prank, there was no FBI investigation; it was threatened by an administrator to get the pranksters to confess. Also, they were not disciplined severely, as Eric Zorn from the Chicago Sun-Times attests:

"Given that he got off light compared to the $100,000 cost of his prank to township taxpayers ($1,250 fine, 200 hours of community service, no criminal charges) I guess he wouldn't have many regrets." [1]

Here's the story from Glenview Watch:

"A prank perpetrated by students at New Trier High School will be featured in a new reality show produced by MTV. In June 2000, two seniors made more than 600 copies of the school's master key and mailed it to other students along with a bogus letter from the principal. The school spent $100,000 to change all its locks and threatened to call the F.B.I. That's when the students confessed. They were fined $1,250, required to do 200 hours of public service and denied the right to take part in graduation ceremonies. New Trier refused to allow taping of the MTV show at its building, so the producers shot at Chute Middle School in Evanston. The 10-part series, called High School Stories, will debut October 13." [2] Slo-mo 20:18, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The best non-selective public high school in Illinois

The reason why I changed "is academically considered to be the best public high school in Illinois" to "best non-selective public high school" a while back is because Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy (IMSA, with a mean SAT around 1400) is a state-funded and operated magnet school that is considered to be one of the five best public high schools in the nation, and the best in Illinois academically. The other top public schools in the nation are also magnet schools: Stuyvesant High School (Stuy, with a mean SAT over 1400), Bronx High School of Science (Bronx Science, with 7 Nobel Prize winners among its alumni), Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology (TJ, with an astounding mean SAT in the 1490s), and Hunter College High School (25% of its graduates matriculate at Ivy League schools).

Uni High is also a public school that requires applications, and it regularly beats IMSA on most indicators, and definitely outperforms New Trier. (In 2001, about half the graduating class was National Merit finalists). OneWorld22 07:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

There are a few other non-selective public schools in the nation that are similar in academic quality to New Trier, like Millburn High School (New Jersey) and Ward Melville High School (New York).

Yes, there was no FBI investigation. It said on HS Stories, but that's not true...

[edit] Pop Culture References?

I would've thought that the references to New Trier in pop culture, and specifically movies, would've merited mention, specifically:

Breakfast Club-- NT had this disciplinary measure, with the same name and the movie is clearly set in the northern suburbs of Chicago. Risky Business-- again the setting is clear, and the chase scene features Glencoe, in NT territory. Uncle Buck-- when John Candy's character drops off his neice at highschool it is clearly NT Northfield campus. Pretty In Pink and Sixteen Candles. Mean Girls - (Sort of the halfway point between Evanston Township High School and New Trier)

There are probably a dozen more.

agreed- the only reason i checked this school out was because of its relation to the breakfast club. but that could be why no one referenced these films- they're dated and stereotypical 80s and that's what this school will be forever remembered for.

While the breakfast club of The Breakfast Club was nominally inspired by the breakfast clubs of New Trier notoriety (though breakfast clubs at NT are actually weekday morning detention, Breakfast Club-style weekend detention being referred to as "Saturday school"), the film was shot at Maine North and Glenbrook North, the latter being John Hughes' alma mater. Of the films mentioned above, all but Risky Business and Mean Girls are films by Hughes, who grew up in Northbrook (not in New Trier Township) and later set and shot a number of his films on the North Shore.

Ferris Bueller's Day Off was also shot at Glenbrook North, with a few non-school scenes shot in New Trier Township, in Winnetka (pizza parlor) and Glencoe (beach scene).

Sixteen Candles was shot at Niles East, as were the exterior shots for Risky Business (though ostensibly set "off the lake"—though that could refer to the rich 'burbs of Lake County as well). They may drive through Glencoe and past the Bahai'i Temple in Wilmette, but that has very little to do with NT.

Pretty in Pink was shot at Hancock Park High School and Marshall High School in LA (the latter also seen in Grease).

These movies are clearly a part of recent North Shore mythology (as attested by their mention in that article), but, aside from a shot of New Trier West in Uncle Buck and the nominal inspiration for the punishment behind The Breakfast Club, this is just not anything exclusive to New Trier.

Finally, re: "that could be why no one referenced these films- they're dated and stereotypical 80s and that's what this school will be forever remembered for"... What a silly thing to say. 70.236.225.228 22:56, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I removed the whole section as it isn't referenced and Google makes no mention of NTHS as the vantage point of any flim hoopydink^{Conas tá tú?} 22:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Student Alliance Officers, etc.

Wikipedia is not the appropriate forum in which to share the names of the officers of any New Trier club. User: AMHoffman

[edit] Demographics

I feel that it would be worth it to mention the demographics of New Trier to put its achievement in context. According to [3], the school is 89% white, 9% asian, 2% hispanic, and only 1% black out of 2799 students, with the median household income of $127,809, and no data on students eligible for free or reduced-cost lunch. This seems a bit odd that this information is not mentioned anywhere within the article. I think it would only be fair to mention New Trier's obvious well above-average income level and well below-average minority makeup, if only to put its high achievment into context. Glc17

[edit] My recent edits

Please excuse the recent edits I made. What was originally a good faith attempt to revert some vandalism using popups ended up becoming quite a mess. I was able to fix things but it took some extra edits. hoopydink^{Conas tá tú?} 06:41, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My recent edits (Part 2)

I stumbled upon this article when doing some vandal fighting and saw it was in need of some major work to make the article encyclopedic. hoopydink^{Conas tá tú?} 22:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV dispute [===Adam Hoffman: Fallen Leader===]

Reads like a bad piece of fiction. Lots of weasel words. Could be original research. Another editor has tried to remove it. -- Usgnus 03:29, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Original research, unencyclopedic tone, weasel words, unreferenced. As it is written now, it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. hoopydink^{Conas tá tú?} 04:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. This section just seems like tripe to me. Esrever 17:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source?

"If based on academics, New Trier is easily considered to be in the Top 50 Public High Schools in the nation."

Easily considered so by whom? While it's likely quite true if you ask anyone who knows high schools, I think this needs a citation of some sort of reputable source. Esrever 18:47, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source? part deux

This stuff about the men's lax team: is there a source anywhere on that that can be verified? Esrever 21:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copy Edit and Suggestions

I've tried to give this article a thorough copyedit. I'm unfamilier with the subject matter(or was) and mostly tried to improve the prose of the article. I like this article and think that it discusses an interesting high school with a long and storied history. As such, there are a number of things in the article that detract from it as an overal reading experience. Here is a list of things, the improvement of which would make the article much better. Most of this is a need for further explanation of the events that take place at New Trier.

History
Ambulance-I need more context here. Information like: what year was the fundraising drive, why did the students buy an ambulance, and did they donate it to some other organization? really need to be adressed to make this sentence meaningful. B-17 & B-29-Again, more context. Why did the students purchase two airplanes? I've never heard of high school students doing anything like this, but it's interesting, so I'd love an explanation.

Subject Level Grouping
An explanation of decile rank. Again, I've never heard of this and don't understand what it is or why it's different from a percentile ranking system. I've wikilinked this because it seems like something that probably deserves it's own article.

Course weights: I'd really like to see a table here of all of the weights any grade is given in a course.

Grade Points by Level

	Level 1	Level 2	Level 3	Level 4	Level 5
A	3.33	4.0	4.67	5.33	5.67
A-	3.00	3.67	4.33	5.00	5.33
B+	2.67	3.33	4.00	4.67	5.00
B	2.33	3.00	3.67	4.33	4.67
B-	2.00	2.67	3.33	4.00	4.33
C+	1.67	2.33	3.00	3.67	4.00
C	1.33	2.00	2.67	3.33	3.67
C-	1.00	1.67	2.33	3.00	3.33
D+	0.67	1.33	2.00	2.33	2.67
D	0.33	1.00	1.33	1.67	2.00
D-	0.33	0.33	0.67	1.00	1.33
F	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00

I'd like to see this table filled out and placed in the article because, again, it's interesting to me and I would like to know more about it.

I think the section on tracking is kind of confusing. For example, to my knowledge, 1 level classes are specifically for students with special education needs, and not "general level". Of course, New Trier is kind of known for shading all of its classes as if they were different levels of advanced anyway, so I guess that's kind of how it goes. --Pendragoness 01:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the school board's attempts to reduce the competative aspects of the school, I'd again like more explanation. Why does decile ranking reduce competitveness over percentile ranking? Why would removing decile ranking decrease competativeness?

Sports & orgs
Is Student Alliance the equivalent of student council at other schools?

Social Service-What types of community service activities do they do?

Chess Club-Just how old is the chess club? Was it the first student org at New Trier?

Tri Ship-What kinds of activities do they sponsor?

Then, article wide, citations are needed. There are lots of facts in the history, sports, and controversies that need to be sourced and cited. I don't mean to dispute these many facts because I think they're probably true, but I want to seem where the information came from. I'm a citation nut and would ideally like to see a citation after every sentence(although that would probably be excessive).

Again, I really like this article and would like to see it improved. I'll be happy to help with the copyediting and other edits in the future, but the things I've listed are too specific for me to resolve without having some connection with the school.--Dekkanar 03:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uniformity

I have been working on converting all Chicago area high schools to a standard template for uniformity and so that a causual visitor to any chicago area HS page will easily be able to locate what they need. However, since this article is already so well written, I will hold back on any major edits. Should this be converted into the uniform template?

I would argue that this page should remain as it is. It accurately reflects New Trier, and is formatted in a useful and effective way.RSido 03:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Activities

I'd like to edit some of the clubs to update what they're doing, most notably student alliance and lagniappe. any objections?

• No, go ahead. For things as uncontroversial as this, you should be bold. Be careful not to talk about insignificant events and make sure to keep it concise, however.

[edit] Hal Sparks?

According to imdb.com, comedian Hal Sparks went to New Trier(he's on the notable alum list linked under that section). Not sure if this belongs on the page, but on the first episode of VH1's new Celebrity Paranormal Project, he says something like "this place looks like my old high school, that's the scariest thing" about the sanitorium. I can't remember the exact quote, but it did bear a striking resemblence to NT. Sort of funny. If anyone can find the exact quote, maybe it could go with his name in the alum section? I guess its not really important. -Elizabennet 17:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

He did go to New Trier and can be found in List of New Trier High School alumni. I don't think he is quite notable enough to be mentioned in this article with the likes of Charlton Heston, Christie Hefner, and Donald Rumsfeld, though. But he is definitely notable enough to be mentioned in the list, in my opinion. -Bluedog423^Talk 18:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

After another look, somebody has added people like Rainn Wilson, who I think is not famous enough to be mentioned on the main NT page, but others disagree. I would say Hal Sparks is definitely on par with Rainn Wilson, so the addition to this page could be justified. -Bluedog423^Talk 18:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Outlaws v. Trevians

I put in the sentence regarding the Trevian/Outlaw issue, and I have a reliable source: Mr. Koonz, who has taught at New Trier for 37 years and plans to sub for 37 more.RSido 03:26, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

• Even if Mr. Koonz is a reliable source, it still can't go in the article. This information has never been published. See Wikipedia's policy about No original research. According to the policy, "The only way to show your work is not original research is to produce a reliable published source who writes about the same claims or advances the same argument as you." So, if you can find a sentence in the New Trier News about it, then feel free to add it back. Thanks! -Bluedog423^Talk 03:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

While I have tremendous respect for Mr. Koonz, he does have a tendency to stretch the truth sometimes, even if he does usually admit he's lying. --PAK Man 01:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Student Activities

I edited the list of student activities by alphabetizing the various organizations and cleaning up some of the prose throughout. There seems to be some continuing controversy over this so-called "mock newspaper," which I've left in the list for the time being. It probably isn't verifiable, but I've not done any searching for it online. Esrever 21:26, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

It actually is a real publication, but I doubt it's worth mentioning in the article. The first issue came out about a month ago. I agree that for now, it should be left alone. In the end, it will probably get removed anyway --PAK Man 01:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)