Talk:New Haven Line
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[edit] Northeast Corridor Box?
Why is this box on the Metro North New Haven Line page? Jd2718 03:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Service vs Trackage
The lead of this article is written about New Haven Line trackage. Is there a reason to believe that readers will come here looking for trackage info, and not service info? Otherwise, "The New Haven Line runs from New Haven, Connecticut, southwest to Grand Central Terminal." Jd2718 03:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Two towns without stations
The user who deleted the line about West Haven and Orange being the only two towns Metro-North runs through without stations acknowledged that it is factually true, but said there are only a few hundred yards running through Orange. I don't see that as particularly relevant; service is not based on how long the track is, but on how convenient it is to the nearby residents. The station would be near a major north-south road serving Orange. Since they are planning to build an Orange station, someone must think it's justified. Therefore I see no reason to delete this sentence. InkQuill 19:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
- The New Haven Line passes through town center after town center, traversing Connecticut's shoreline towns. It passes, though, nowhere near Orange's center. Orange is a residential town, and this is the extreme southeast corner, separated from the rest of the town by I-95. The station is not near one of Orange's major north-south roads (Racebrook, Orange Center, or Grassy Hill). The sentence implies that Orange gets a station because every town gets a station. This seems quite unlikely, and without a source is just trivia. If there is a source that says this, provide it and restore the sentence. Jd2718 23:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
- Two of these assertions are simply not true. First, the station would be not near a major north-south road, but on one. Marsh Hill Road is a continuation of Lambert Road and is a major north-south route from Route 34 (a heavily traveled route to the northwest and to New Haven) to Route 1 (the major commercial strip in an otherwise suburban/rural town) and south to Interstate 95, a major movie theater and the Bayer plant, then on to Milford and West Haven. In fact, it is the only north-south road in Orange with an entrance on I-95. It is not a state road but otherwise is one of the most traveled roads in Orange. Second, not all Metro-North stations are in the center of town: West Haven's wouldn't be, New Haven's isn't, and neither is Branford's. The study cited said an Orange station could actually draw more passengers than West Haven, though this was later discounted and would be affected by the loss of Bayer. I don't see the sentence as implying anything about why towns get stations. The cited report shows why both towns believe they deserve stations. Why is this such a big deal unless there is a bias involved? It's a simple statement of fact, nothing more. Perhaps we should submit this to arbitration. InkQuill
- You are claiming that Marsh Hill Road is a major north south road serving Orange. That will certainly depend on your definition. Certainly twon residents would name the three I did (all state roads) before Marsh Hill, and likely not think of Marsh Hill at all. That Lambert 'lines up' with Marsh Hill does not make it the same road. It certainly does not have the same geometry, same usage patterns, etc.
- You claim that not all New Haven Line stations are in the center of their respective Connecticut towns. You cited Branford (not New Haven Line), West Haven (does not exist) and New Haven (untrue).
- Look, I'll save us the trouble of haggling over the detail. I will remove the section. If construction begins, we should put it back. Jd2718 04:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
- Two of these assertions are simply not true. First, the station would be not near a major north-south road, but on one. Marsh Hill Road is a continuation of Lambert Road and is a major north-south route from Route 34 (a heavily traveled route to the northwest and to New Haven) to Route 1 (the major commercial strip in an otherwise suburban/rural town) and south to Interstate 95, a major movie theater and the Bayer plant, then on to Milford and West Haven. In fact, it is the only north-south road in Orange with an entrance on I-95. It is not a state road but otherwise is one of the most traveled roads in Orange. Second, not all Metro-North stations are in the center of town: West Haven's wouldn't be, New Haven's isn't, and neither is Branford's. The study cited said an Orange station could actually draw more passengers than West Haven, though this was later discounted and would be affected by the loss of Bayer. I don't see the sentence as implying anything about why towns get stations. The cited report shows why both towns believe they deserve stations. Why is this such a big deal unless there is a bias involved? It's a simple statement of fact, nothing more. Perhaps we should submit this to arbitration. InkQuill
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- Thanks for saving us the trouble by removing the section, but I don't accept that. How you can say the only road that Orange residents can use to get to I-95 is not a major road is beyond me. I'll figure out what the appeals process is and follow that route.InkQuill 16:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
- Please be careful not to misquote. Marsh Hill Road is not a major north south road serving Orange. That is not the same as saying Marsh Hill Road is not a major road. Jd2718 14:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for saving us the trouble by removing the section, but I don't accept that. How you can say the only road that Orange residents can use to get to I-95 is not a major road is beyond me. I'll figure out what the appeals process is and follow that route.InkQuill 16:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
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- This discussion has moved to our talk pages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jd2718#Orange_train_station and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:InkQuill. I would appreciate if someone else would weigh in! InkQuill 03:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't see anything in [1] backing up the assertion that West Haven and Orange had sought stations or that they were being planned there because those towns lack stations. --NE2 14:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
- It's not there. Inkquill has left it out of the article, but is searching for a source (I think). In the meantime I am quite nervous about including transportation "plans" without source saying they are actually going to be built. I can't find what the $$ allocation was for. Jd2718 15:33, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
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- The text now is probably ok. Stating that new stations will be built in West Haven and Orange because those are the only towns without them is definitely reading too much into the plan. My guess is that the site was chosen because there is a large stretch without stations there. In any case, listing the plan itself should be ok since the construction of these specific stations have already been enacted into the General Statutes in 2006 and funding for their construction has been allocated in the Transportation Bill. Getting to this stage is already a big deal in terms of Connecticut transportation infrastructure building. --Polaron | Talk 15:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Does one of our sources say the bit about the General Statutes? Then I think we are fine. (Actually, npov aside, that's great. That stretch was just too long, and an intermediate station should have been in the works years ago. And I would personally benefit (maybe 2-3 rides a year) from the Marsh Hill station.)
- I searched for the relvant law authorizing the construction of the station. The final bill that was signed into law (P.A. 06-136) does not specifically mention West Haven or Orange. Instead it says
"...shall implement the following strategic transportation projects and initiatives: (4) Developing a new commuter rail station between New Haven and Milford"
Further down it says"...shall evaluate and plan the implementation of the following projects: (5) Developing a second rail passenger station between New Haven and Milford
I take this to mean "build one and maybe see if we can also build the other one". The original proposed bill had the station names listed but it seems they made it more vague in the final version. There is a new proposed bill that is in the Transportation Committee (07-6456) that specifically amends the General Statutes to provide for the construction of the West Haven station. [2][3] --Polaron | Talk 03:51, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
- I searched for the relvant law authorizing the construction of the station. The final bill that was signed into law (P.A. 06-136) does not specifically mention West Haven or Orange. Instead it says
- Does one of our sources say the bit about the General Statutes? Then I think we are fine. (Actually, npov aside, that's great. That stretch was just too long, and an intermediate station should have been in the works years ago. And I would personally benefit (maybe 2-3 rides a year) from the Marsh Hill station.)
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- Do we have a source saying the Second Avenue Subway will be built? :) Yes, that's comparing apples to crabapples. There's a cite to a newspaper article on the Orange and West Haven stations though, so it's not just a back-room "hey, it might be cool if we did this!" We should cover any former plans too; Wikipedia should not be biased towards the present. It's probably best to just list places that stations have been planned with a source, and not provide more than that until it gets beyond planning. --NE2 15:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
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- That's a problem. Transportation, in general, has lots and lots of associated planning agency, which generate many proposals. It is the professionals themselves who play "hey it might be cool" knowing that most ideas will never get funded. We shouldn't be biased towards the present, but we should be conservative in relation to transportation proposals. Jd2718 16:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Just to be clear, I never intended to imply cause and effect between the towns being the only ones without stations and the plans for building them. I'll see if I can come up with a way to answer all concerns later. InkQuill 16:14, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] New Fairfield Station?
Could we have a source? Jd2718 02:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Metro-North taking over Shore Line East
The idea that Metro-North is going to take over Shore Line East is at best speculative. Neither the governor's budget proposal nor press reports of legislators' press conference Feb. 8 make any mention of such a proposal. If you have information beyond this, please cite sources. InkQuill 03:49, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Connecticut Rail Commuter Council
Why isn't a line about this within the scope of this article? The council is specifically concerned with the New Haven Line of Metro-North. I find this explanation for deletion inadequate. InkQuill 03:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
