Talk:New Hampshire

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Contents 1 State image 2 How to edit state entry? 3 NH house of reps 4 Benson is still governor 5 external links 6 Benson mention 7 Libertarian politics 8 scholarly works 9 Bibliography 10 high schools 11 Highest point 12 Republic of New Hampshire 13 Manchester the largest city? 14 Miscellaneous topics 15 Local papers 16 "in fiction" 17 The NH license plate 18 Arena Football? 19 per-capita alcohol 20 9th 21 Fay Shaha? 22 Archie 23 University grouping 24 Republic of New Hampshire 25 Median Income 26 2004 Election 27 Libertarians?

[edit] State image

Why is this image presented on the talkpage? ZueJay (talk) 20:41, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How to edit state entry?

Wondering how to edit this State Entry?
The WikiProject U.S. States standards might help.

[edit] NH house of reps

So the NH house of reps has 400 members, with multiple members selected from at-large districts... is this a system of proportional representation? If not, what voting system is used instead? -- pde 02:39, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

No. In theory, the state is divided up into districts - many covering several towns, but some covering only a portion of more populous cities - so that in theory each voter has equal representation in the House. The districts are of various size, with as few as three seats and as many as 11. (I'm not certain those are the extremes, but they're close) So a district with 8 representatives should, in theory, contain twice as many residents as a district with 4 representatives. It doesn't quite work out, of course. Within any given district that has X seats , the top X vote-getters in the general election go to the Legislature. - DavidWBrooks 12:55, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That sounds like (non-preferential) proportional representation to me, provided each voter only gets to vote for one candidate. If Greens or Libertarians (for example) made up over 1/9th of the vote in an 8 member district, they would elect representatives. -- pde 03:41, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You get to vote for as many candidates as there are seats in your district. In my town, for example, there are four seats in our district. Four Republicans and four Democrats are running - I vote for up to four out of that total of eight (I can vote for three or fewer, if I want). Minor party candidates could (and in rare occasions have) vote in representatives. - DavidWBrooks 18:54, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Okay, that's bloc voting, which sucks. -- pde 09:00, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Benson is still governor

Note to the anon who keeps changing the governor: Until Lynch is sworn in, which doesn't happen for a few weeks, Craig Benson is still governor. - DavidWBrooks 23:39, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Note: the new executive is now to be referred to as Lynch The Governor.Mlorrey 02:59, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] external links

I've removed a few external links, leaving only a couple official state web sites. Wikipedia is not a link farm, and we don't need to connect to any web site discussing/arguing aspects of life in New Hampshire; it would swamp the article. I also removed the U-L's website, since there are a variety of other, competing private sites and we don't want to list all of them. - DavidWBrooks 14:32, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Who are you to decide what the New Hampshire Wikipedia entry should look like? Has the article been swamped with external links? Just 3 or 4 ....hmmm maybe not a problem then. I don't like windbags censoring me. Russell Kanning

--

"NH residents keeping NH free" is not an NPOV description of the site [1]. How about "The New Hampshire Underground, a fundamentalist libertarian website in NH"? My adjectives may not be quite accurate, I am not too familiar with nhfree.com; wikipedia defines "fundamentalist" currently as "strictly adher[ing] to founding principles", which seems to fit well. I am not sure if "libertarian" should be replaced my minarchist (a term that is easy to understand, but nevertheless I have never heard before). Aleph4 16:02, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That wouldn't be too bad of a description. :) NHfree.com doesn't really censor content so it can go in any direction people might take it. We use the site for all sorts of NH related topics so I thought it belonged on the NH wikipedia page. We seem to attract people from all over the political spectrum, so I don't see its inclusion here as going against the point of the whole wikipedia. I am not that interested in the Wikipedia becoming just another arm of academia and political correctness, so I think we should allow more variety in content, descriptions, and opinions. :) Russell Kanning

Forget my "POV" dig and anybody's opinion of the site. The point is that an article about New Hampshire is not a link farm for any website dicussing aspects of life in New Hampshire - there'd soon be 500 of them, swamping the article. Browsers wouldn't be able to open it! Gun owners, gun haters, pro/con toll booths, save the shipyard, maple syrup sucks, Monarchs vs. Ice Cats, Free Staters, Massholes Are Ruining Everything, etc. etc. etc. (Imagine what the California article would look like!) Once agin, wikipedia is not a link farm to all Web debate related in some form the article at hand. It's not that this site is wrong or bad, just inappropriate as an external link. - DavidWBrooks 17:37, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well, we have a three-revert rule here on wikipedia (don't make the same/similar edits three times in one day) to prevent pissy edit wars, so the inappropriate link will last a day. I will fix the other errors, though. - DavidWBrooks 18:52, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Benson mention

To the anon who keeps putting in a mention that Lynch beat Benson: That doesn't seem appropriate here - after all, we don't mention who all the other elected officials defeated! Lynch's article covers this in depth. - DavidWBrooks 12:41, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

If the tidal portion of a river is used to determine a state's "coastline," wouldn't the District of Columbia then have a shorter coastline than Penn. or N.H. since the Potomac is tidal up to the Key Bridge? Another case of no D.C. representation!! (CBG, Washington, D.C.)

Um, no, since D.C is not a state. karmafist 09:06, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Libertarian politics

I'm looking to make a couple changes, but I'm interested in contrary points of view.

The second half of the second paragraph of the article seems to overstate the importance to the state of people who formally identify themselves as Libertarians. I'm involved in politics in NH, and this article is the first instance I've heard of "the Free State" reference (a quick Google reveals zero hits within the first 100 showing use of this as a bona fide motto in the mainstream press--only on a couple Libertarian sites, and one pro-smokers' site (search was: "the free state" nh "new hampshire")). Most of this discussion seems better suited to the "Politics" section of the article. I do think that the notion of "Libertarian-like" politics is important, but its origin should not be confused: it stems from old Yankee conservatism (mind your own business, and I'll mind mine), not from a reflection of a modern political movement.

Regarding the laws, what exactly is a "libertarian law" (oxymoron?), other than constitutionally protected rights? There are a lot of laws in NH, as in any other state, that limit personal freedoms for the purpose of controlling behavior and benefiting society as a whole. Show me citations to "the libertarian laws" that distinguish NH as different.

There is a strong tradition of local control in NH, but that doesn't mean that the real power resides there. NH is not a "home rule" state; it is a Dillon's Rule state, which means that all power resides with the state government, except that which is specifically delegated to subordinate political units (e.g., municipalities). The notion of local control is something that the state legislature closely guards, except when it suits the legislature to clearly remove the municipalities from the equation, depending upon the issue. Municipal ballot voting has nothing to do with distribution of power between the state and towns, but is an interesting development that warrants slightly deeper discussion here ("shifting political traditions," or something like that).

You're "involved in politics in NH" and you're never heard of the Free State project? Holy toledo, where have you been hiding: it was all over the state press last year and the year before. They were going to bring 20,000 people to NH and turn us into Libertiarian-land! The result, predictably, has fizzled; that may need to be updated. I agree with most of your other comments. - DavidWBrooks 14:41, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

No, that's not what I said. Of course I've heard of the Free State Project. What I've not heard of was New Hampshire being called the Free State, as a nickname. The Free State Project does not purport to call a state "the Free State." It purports to reform the government of a state in the Libertarian model. Sorry, forgot to sign off last time. FrostHeaves 18:30, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

My error; sorry - I misunderstood you. I hadn't noticed that "free state" sentence in the introduction; you're quite correct, it's silly. I'd happily kill it off, but it sounds like you're preparing other edits, too. - DavidWBrooks 19:05, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] scholarly works

I'm sorry to have removed a lot of work, but including a screenfull of scholarly texts about NH history is not only overkill, but misses the point of wikipedia - we aren't a card catalog or Web link farm for history texts. (Imagine what the World War II article would be like, if this practice was followed!) Wikipedia is supposed to be a popular encyclopedia, not an academic research treatise. Casual readers scrolling down looking for information, or some serendipitious catch-the-eye information, would never make it past a roadblock list like that! - DavidWBrooks 21:33, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bibliography

We're an encyclopedia and all encyclopedias have bibliographies of the best sources. I just added one. The hot links are to tables of content and 10-20 pages of text for each book, allowing users to decide is they want to get one through libraries or purchase. This is solid, fresh information entirely focused on NH history available nowhere else. Rjensen 21:38, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Not in the middle of the article, they don't! Anyway, we'll see what others think. - DavidWBrooks 22:40, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

It pertains to history so I simply put it after the history section. Where should it be placed? Is there in fact any logical order to the article? Rjensen 23:12, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

"Logical order" in wikipedia? Ha! No, I'm joking ... the order depends on what participants think the order shold be, for better or worse.

I've created History of New Hampshire as a spinoff article, moving all the text and the bibliography there. I slightly trimmed the text from this article, but it needs work - I think cutting a bit more from the Colonial era, adding a little to the modern era. - DavidWBrooks 16:00, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Wow, that didn't take too long: Hats off to Rjensen for a very fine rewrite of the History section. - DavidWBrooks 19:06, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

thanks--my pleasure Rjensen 19:11, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] high schools

I'd like to remove the "notable high school" listing in this article - it's starting to grow ridiculously as everybody puts in their public high school, of which there are well over 100 in the state. An argument might be made for Phillips Exeter as nationaly known, but that's about it. - DavidWBrooks 19:01, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree 100%. The section seems arbitrary and even random, and doesn't tell much about the state. Bcarlson33 12:20, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I have taken out the pubilc high schools, left in the private ones. Maybe they should go too? - DavidWBrooks 12:39, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Highest point

Somebody changed the "highest point" in the infox box from meters to feet - rightly, in my view, since this is an article about the U.S. The way the box is constructed, though, "m" for meters shows up automatically, which looked ridiculous, so I changed it back. It should be fixed so that both feet and meters can be displayed. - DavidWBrooks 12:26, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It should be in feet/miles/etc. Changing the infobox itself would involve going through all 50 states' pages and converting the measurements, and though that is somewhat daunting, it is entirely executible. You can create a new template, or, you can do what a couple of states have done (Kansas, for example), and have both measurements, placing the standard measurement (with unit) before the metric equivalent (without unit). --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 17:05, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Republic of New Hampshire

Could somebody knowledgeable on New Hampshire history take a look at the recently created Republic of New Hampshire article? I'm not sure about some of the claims being made there. Thanks. --JW1805 (Talk) 15:06, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I have asked Rjensen if he could check it; he is, I believe, a history professor in New Hampshire. - DavidWBrooks 18:05, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

At best, the "current status" part doesn't belong there. The history article should be kept separate from anyone's interpretation of the current New Hampshire constitution. GMcGath 17:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manchester the largest city?

Is Manchester the largest city? If it is, could someone please tell me the source for this? Also, size would be based on population, correct? --SheeEttin 19:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Manchester is the largest city population-wise. The U.S. Census Bureau is a source. Bcarlson33 18:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Damn you! You edited while I was adding my signature!

Thanks, anyway. --SheeEttin 19:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Miscellaneous topics

The New Hampshire#Miscellaneous topics needs some trimming as it contains a lot of duplicated or information that could be incorporated in the main body of the article. I will dedicate some effort to this when I have the time. --Assawyer 19:32, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

For everything that can't be included in the article, leave it where it is and call the section "Trivia". Some of those things are really interesting, like the right to revolution. --SheeEttin 23:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. I have renamed the section and moved a lot of the facts up into the respective sections. The Right of Revolution was moved into the Law & Gov section with other info regarding the Constitution. --Assawyer 00:52, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Local papers

Someone has added a couple of local papers; if every small-town weekly in the state got mentioned, it could eventually add up to quite a list. Not a problem yet, but something to keep in mind. GMcGath 19:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "in fiction"

I have returned a half-dozen references to specific places in NH, rather than to the state as a whole, that are in prominent fiction, such as "Peyton Place". If it's removed now, it will disappear and it's kind of interesting ... perhaps it should be a separate article, such as List of New Hampshire references in fiction or something like that. - DavidWBrooks 15:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The NH license plate

There's been a bit of a battle going on over the image of a New Hampshire license plate. Anyone care to shed some light on it? One image that keeps getting posted shows a plate with the letters "CSC" and four digits. This image should not be placed in this article, because (1) NH plates don't begin with three letters, and (2) the owner of the image doesn't want it up. The image which I just restored shows the correct numeric format, but I don't know its provenance. It could be the license plate of someone who might not want it up there. Any suggestions? Ken Gallager 13:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

If we don't know whose license plate it is, we should not post it, any more than we should use a stranger's SS number. Even if it can't easily be linked to them and may not be a legal violation, it seems kind of rude, don't you think? I would kill the image entirely until we get somebody to post a picture of their own plate and give permission to use it. - DavidWBrooks 14:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

You've voiced my own hesitations well. I'm taking the image off. Ken Gallager 15:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

This should have been resolved, but... The CRC plate (Image:CurrentNewHampshirePlate.jpg) does not show the correct format. It was claimed that it was stolen from a site maintained by 15qdotnet, but it turns out it was not. 15qdotnet has since uploaded a better image of his, which WashingtonWillie (the old image uploader) has continually reverted. If this goes on much longer, I'm thinking about an RfC. Oh, and I'm getting back the good image (15qdotnet's). --SheeEttin 21:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Understood that the current image is the correct number format, but did you read the discussion above? I'm concerned that it's the license plate of someone who doesn't know it's up here. Is it yours? Where did the image come from? Ken Gallager 12:52, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

It's 15qdotnet's, from his site (the one with the correct format). Image here. I'm not sure where the WashingtonWillie one came from, but the user with that account seems to have gone a little crazy. It's been resolved somewhere, I think it was on 15qdotnet's IP user page... --SheeEttin 17:35, 2 June 2006 (UTC) See also here and here. --SheeEttin 17:39, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation! I'm happy. Ken Gallager 15:08, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe I'm going overboard here, but it wouldn't hurt to write on the page of the photo itself [2] that 15qdotnet has given permission for the plate to be posted - right now, all the Summary has is a link to the Web site where it came from, and a GNU license, but no indication that it's actually 15qdotnet who gave the OK, rather than somebody else who found the picture online and swiped it. -DavidWBrooks 16:49, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

It's assumed that it's 15qdotnet's image. Even if it's not, since it's released under the GNU, it's okay to submit here without permission. If you want to add a small note to the image, feel free. — SheeEttin {T/C} 20:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Even if it is "OK to use", should we? It's somebody's plate, and we don't know who. Perhaps it would be best to see if there is a sample plate image available from the NH DMV?

coach TJ aka Teej

I don't know if there's any sample plates or what, but the owner of the plate was the one that uploaded it, so I'm assuming he wants it used...

[edit] Arena Football?

What exactly are the Manchester SeaMonsters? Are they a former team or a current team? If they're current, to what league do they belong?

They're not listed anywhere and the Wolves are a minor league team, so I'm guessing the Seamonsters are the former major league team for Manchester? Or maybe they moved to a different city?--65.16.61.35 15:42, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] per-capita alcohol

although that figure is skewed by the relatively large number of out-of-staters who buy tax-free liquor ... darn; we (the Telegraph) wrote an article about this fact when the data first came out, but it was pre-Web archive. I've got to find that source ... - DavidWBrooks 10:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I know its true myself. I have seen the Federally funded study where the lower price of alcohol of New Hampshire than its surrounding states causes more people to purchase in New Hampshire. New Hampshire, however, is not the only state that this happens to. However, the reason I deleted it is because the editor reverted the edit I made to the word "skewed." I did so to avoid a revert/edit war. I am going to try and find that study so the statement can be returned to all its glory. --Assawyer 13:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 9th

Is it possible to add a small fact in the lead stating that since NH was the ninth state to join the Union, we were the ones to make the Declaration of Independence take effect? I forget the specifics on what exactly happened, and I also can't see a way to add this to the lead. — SheeEttin {T/C} 19:18, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

You mean the Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence, don't you? NH was the 9th state to ratify the Constitution, and in that sense the 9th to join the union. GMcGath 20:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Erm... yeah, I think I do. History (especially documents, dates, etc.) is definitely not my strong suit. In any case, any ideas? — SheeEttin {T/C} 00:49, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fay Shaha?

Anyone know who this "notable New Hampshire resident or native" is? A Google search draws a blank.

I've done two reverts on the NH article in the past week, so I'd be verging on obnoxiousness if I just reverted this one, but it seems odd. GMcGath 12:42, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I have no such problems - it's gone. Obviously a joke from an anon. - DavidWBrooks 12:44, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Archie

Riverdale High, where the cartoon character Archie and the gang have their adventures, was allegedly based in part on Manchester Central High School. this isn't true. It was haverhill ma. - 199.221.112.52

Good point - the Archie article supports that. I've removed the reference. - DavidWBrooks 16:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

In fact, Bob Montana spent three years at Haverhill High and one year at Central. Haverhill seems to have been the greater influence -- for instance, the Riverdale school paper is called the "Brown and Gold," which is Haverhill's school colors -- but Central probably had some influence. I think the current text presents the appropriate balance. GMcGath 14:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] University grouping

I've moved Keene State and Plymouth State under UNH, but this might be worth discussing. They're part of the University System of New Hampshire, and not strictly part of UNH. An alternative might be to group them all (including UNH) under the University System of New Hampshire. Or maybe it should just be put back the way it was before. Comments? GMcGath 15:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and did it. Maybe it could use a little more formatting, but your point makes sense. --Ken Gallager 18:12, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Republic of New Hampshire

if you remove the external link i put for the nh independence movement again, you will be comitting vandalism upon the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RevSavitar (talk • contribs) 18:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

Sorry, but we can't link to every activist group in the state; we're not a link farm. At the risk of drawing the score of somebody whose shift key is apparently broken, I have removed it, too. - DavidWBrooks 22:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Median Income

Where does $57,323 (1st) for median income come from? - MSTCrow 03:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 2004 Election

Can a reference be made anywhere regarding New Hampshire's decisive role in giving the 2004 US Election the the Republican candidate George W. Bush?

Well, since the state voted for Kerry in 2004, perhaps we should rethink that statement a bit. If you meant the 2000 election, it wasn't "decisive": several states would have changed the result if they had gone Democratic. - DavidWBrooks 18:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Libertarians?

"In addition to the lack of sales and income taxes, the state has the highest per capita elected and appointed Libertarians and the highest density of Libertarian Party members in the nation. However, the Libertarian Party does not perform well in the state relative to the rest of the country."

What exactly does this last sentence mean? If the Libertarian Party's highest density is in New Hampshire, I'd say they were doing rather well there, wouldn't you? 205.118.21.137 17:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Darned if I know, and I couldn't find good data one way or the other. So I removed both sentences. - DavidWBrooks 20:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)