Talk:New Age Outlaws

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 10:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

The James Gang (wrestling) → New Age Outlaws – "The James Gang (wrestling)" has no Google results, New Age Outlaws has 64,800. The latter term is less ambiguous and is by far the better known term. McPhail

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support. Regardless of the Google hits, they are by far better known as the New Age Outlaws, and they'd undoubtedly be called that in TNA if the name were not copyrighted by WWE (Kip James went by "The Outlaw" for a while). MarcK 09:14, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

• I couldn't possibly care less where this article ends up, but I thought it should be pointed out that "The James Gang"+wrestling actually has 140,000 Google hits. Not zero, as claimed. If the original search was conducted with parentheses, it stands to reason that there would be no hits, but that's not an accurate search parameter. Kafziel 14:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Many of those hits refer to the band, though. McPhail 15:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if I'd say "many". All of the top hits refer to the wrestlers. The search still includes "wrestling", just not in parentheses and not necessarily immediately following the name of the team. Anyway, I don't know enough about wrestling to formally object to a move, but I thought it should be clarified that the hit count is certainly not zero. Kafziel 16:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, "The James Gang" TNA has 20,200. It's worth noting though that a Google search will favour more recent phenomenons; the New Age Outlaws name has not been used since 2000, but it still has a huge number of Google hits. McPhail 16:48, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was No consensus Duja► 10:28, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Voodoo Kin Mafia → New Age Outlaws — The page was moved and the old page edited so this can't be moved back by me. New Age Outlaws is the name this team is most known as and most famous as. They only changed their name to Voodoo Kin Mafia 3 days ago. It's the same reason that Hawk and Animal are listed as the Road Warriors instead of Legion of Doom. TJ Spyke 01:31, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add  * '''Support'''  or  * '''Oppose'''  on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.

• Support They are best known as the New Age Outlaws, and only recently started calling themselves VKM. Edgecution 04:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Support -- FPAtl (holla) 06:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose Regardless of precedent, articles should have up-to-date names. It's not like this article can't be found through the stables other names. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 13:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose That is like having separate articles for Washington Bullets and Washington Wizards. The New Age Outlaws name redirects to the new name, so it won't hurt the many articles linked to New Age Outlaws. Milchama 15:03, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose I agree with the above, it seem sensless to change the name back when the faction are now know as VKM --Shaunkelly101 18:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Support It's too soon to change the name. Maestro25 23:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose. Their name is Voodoo Kin Mafia now, that's what it should be. Current name is the best and most accurate way to do it. RobJ1981 23:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • That doesn't work in wrestling articles. The correct name of this article is New Age Outlaws and would be there if a vandal hadn't moved it and then edited the old page (making it impossible for non-admins to move it back). Precedents (and WP:PW) state that they should be at what they are best known as. How are they best known as VKM when they only changed their name last week? TJ Spyke 23:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Support. They are most famously known as New Age Outlaws though. I think that they should go back to being New Age Outlaws. airr233 14:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
  • • Please don't call me a vandal, I moved the page in good faith. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 08:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Could you please point me to where in the WP:PW style guide it says this? I can't seem to find it. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 12:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Current name makes the most sense. People watching wrestling now will likely search more for the recent name, rather than an old one. This survey is perfectly fine and will decide what the name should be. RobJ1981 00:29, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

That's why Voodoo Kin Mafia was a redirect. Wrestling articles, and most articles in general, go by what they are best known by. This team is far better known as the New Age Outlaws, and even known more as The James Gang than the Voodoo Kin Mafia. We don't move articles everytime a wrestler/wrestlers change their name, we go by what they are best known as (or sometimes just their real name). TJ Spyke 00:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments:

The standard for wrestling is to use what they are best known as. Most fans know them as the New Age Outlaws, they only changed their name to VKM this past week. IF they stick with this name for a few years, then I would agree. TJ Spyke 23:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Two more arguments in my favor: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) says to use the most commone name (which would be NAO for them), and the Google test. "New Age Outlaws" gets 54900 hits while "Voodoo Kin Mafia" just gets 480. So both of those support moving it back to NAO. So I shouls point out that admins look at the strength of the arguements and not just the vote count. TJ Spyke 07:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

WP:NC(CN) and the google test are useful guidelines. But they are only that, guides. Such cases should be assessed on their individual merit. I admit, when a wrestler or stable has a temporary gimmick or has a better known persona, it makes sense to name the article in that way. In this case it makes better sense to use the most recent name. There is no indication that the change is temporary and there is very little chance they will be known as NAO again. Think of it this way: if a popular band was to change it's name, should we not rename the band's article just because the new name is not that well known? --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 23:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I have provided two guidelines supporting my move request, you so far have nothing. Hell, they were even more well known as "The James Gang" than they are as "The Voodoo Kin Mafia". So far there is no reason not to move them back to NAO. TJ Spyke 01:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I have provided my reasoning. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 08:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I have to say it's not a very strong argument you have though. TJ Spyke 19:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

That's your opinion. I happen to think that proof by precedent is a logical fallacy. However, neither of us will have to make the closing decision, so it's moot anyway. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 08:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at the previous move request, the same reason the article stayed at New Age Outlaws is the same reason this should be moved back. Edgecution 21:58, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was The article was moved to the most popular name for the group, per WP:NAME. Please wait several months and hash out a consensus before filing the next requested move. This is getting a tad out of hand so some stability would be good. Teke^(talk) 03:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Voodoo Kin Mafia → New Age Outlaws — WP:NAME says to use the most common name. They were known as the New Age Outlaws for several years, including when professional wrestling was at it's peak popularity (8+ million viewers every week). "New Age Outlaws" also gets almost 3x as many Google hits as "Voodoo Kin Mafia", even "The James Gang" +wrestling gets more hits than VKM. TJ Spyke 01:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

[edit] Survey - in support of the move

1. TJ Spyke 01:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC) as nominator.
2. «»bd(^talk _stalk) 01:23, 4 February 2007 (UTC) Support. Support, support, support, I can't say it enough.
3. Support I think it's clear that New Afe Outlaws is the most common name for them. Lrrr IV 07:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
4. Support as with nominator. VKM name has only been used as of November 16. NAO is the name under which they gained the greatest recognition amongst the general public. Suriel1981 12:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
5. Support name they used as a part of DX. It is their most popular name. 声援 -- The Hybrid 23:13, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
6. Support I always refer to them as the New Age Outlaws unless I'm referring to a specific incident that needs a VKM reference. Plus the G-hits tells a story in itself about moving this article. Normy132 10:07, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey - in opposition to the move

1. Against. I don't care how popular they were in the day. Right now, the team is the Voodoo Kin Mafia, and that's why it should be called. Mshake3 02:48, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Take a look atWP:NAME, policy says to use what they are best known as, and I provided evidenc that VKM is actually what they are LEAST known as. TJ Spyke 23:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't most people know Adam Copeland as Edge? Mshake3 02:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

His real name is very well known though. His real name was used in the Edge/Hary/Lita feud, and he published his autobiography under his real name. He was also well known on the indy circuity as Sexton Hardcastle before he joined WWF/WWE. TJ Spyke 22:43, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments:

• To the closing admin, remember that this is not a vote. It's a discussion, and I have provided policys that support the move request, while the 1 opposer has not. TJ Spyke 23:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Actually WP:NAME says to use "the most common name of a person or thing", except where other accepted Wikipedia naming conventions give a different indication. Well, Wikipedia:Naming conflict says that "check that the term is not used anachronistically", which in this case, it would be. 82.19.126.78 00:14, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Did you actually read the section? That is talking about within the article itself, and is basically saying not to call them by their current name when talking about them in the past (i.e. don't call them Voodoo Kin Mafia when talking about what they did in 1999). TJ Spyke 04:04, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
• I'm torn. Voodoo Kin Mafia is the current name; but New Age Outlaws is what there most known by. I'm trying to think of other examples that are similar, but I can't. Davnel03 11:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
  • The Legion of Doom/Road Warriors is one example. They were best known as the Road Warriors, but were called LOD in WWE (and the least version of the team, Animal and Heidenreich, was called LOD). TJ Spyke 21:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
    • I've noticed that this apears to be active for a very long time. I think it may be a good idea to try to contact a admin so that they could make a decision on this. I think this has been open long enough. --69.156.206.121 02:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.