Talk:NESARA conspiracy theory
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This page was previously nominated for deletion.
Please see prior discussions before considering re-nomination:
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[edit] VFD results
This article has survived a VFD nomination with the result of Keep. --Allen3 talk July 9, 2005 12:44 (UTC)
- Is this article serious? Rlove 03:54, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
- The question has been asked before, you can find overly detailed answers in the VFD logs. Someone summed it up as "it's a real conspiracy theory, believed by real dolts". One of these dolts, 68.81.49.81 (talk • contribs), seems to have been vandalizing the NESARA article yesterday. Check out the references on this article, particularly the series of articles from the Tacoma Tribune[1], for info about the woman who created and continues to promote the conspiracy theory. - Sednar (talk • contribs)
[edit] Page must be watched carefully for creeping POV
I have a suspicion that NESARA believers are editing this page and removing, in bits and pieces, any material that refers to NESARA as a conspiracy theory. See recent edits by 84.59.58.218 (talk • contribs) and 68.81.49.81 (talk • contribs), and more blatant edits on the NESARA page in the past few days. The article should be carefully watched for such edits. If I'm mistaken, 84.59.58.218, then please use this discussion page to justify your recent edits. - Sednar (talk • contribs)
- I've been noticing too an increase in edits by the conspiracy theorists over the last month. Thankfully the wikignomes have outnumbered them. I see no justification posted on any page regarding NESARA for these Pro-NESARA Conspiracy viewpoints. Keep up the good work and vigilance. Thanks to the gnomes that have stepped in to help. inigmatus 18:03, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] the ones who claim NESARA is a hoax are the real tricksters
The people who claim this is a hoax are only afriad because to admit this is true one must change the roots of their beliefs and go against the grain of society. Unfortanately they do not understand that they have been purposely mislead down the wrong path. They have been placed in a fog of missinformation for their whole lives making it nearly impossible to accept or learn any outside truth.
Unfortanately your college education ($$) means nothing, so dont pull the whole "intellectual" card on me or anyone else who chooses to believe in things you choose not to accept.
Many of you disbelievers are consumed by darkness. I hope that one day you will learn to love and accept light.
To the tricksters, your time is up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.247.150.161 (talk • contribs). on 12 April 2006.
- This language, complete with unusual spelling is typical of the internet messages that are posted by 'Dove of Oneness' and other NESARA Supporters. Wikipedians should be aware that the root of this hoax is an ongoing finanical Con called Omega Trust which to date, has bilked people out of over &20 Millions dollars. Please work to keep this article safe from vandalism. Thanks. Lisapollison 19:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
"Nesara.us" logic is clearly flawed!
I can't imagine anyone would fall for it (Circular Reasoning) - "Criticism of us is evidence of Government misinformation and propaganda and proves our point." "You can only get the truth here(Nesara)."
Another logical flaw: If the Government is so powerful and regularly incarcerates people (who are never heard from again) without a warrant, why don't they make Shaini Goodwin disappear?
If the Government cannot control the media, then why isn't this relavent information covered by API Newswire, The Christian Science Monitor, or other main stream publications?
Flawed Promise: Debt Forgiveness - The banking system is a financial intermediary between savers and borrowers (people), so if all debt is forgiven, guess who's holding the bag? - Answer: the people.
Flawed Promise: Removing money from the economy to buy gold would create a shortage of money, drive up interest rates,increase the cost of capital and tighten up credit - wages would be the 1st to depreciate followed by capital thereby perpetuating the possiblity of a recession. How would this benefit us?
Flawed Promise: Vagueness - Just what does "Restores Constitutional Law" mean? At what point does one decide to ignore Amendments. What about "Free Speech," "Women's Right to Vote," what will stay and what will go? Who decides?
The whole thing is ludicrous!
[edit] Deletion concern
I'd like to remove the "lack of notability" concern for deletion. I believe these concerns were adequately addressed as can be seen in the request for deletion logs of almost a year ago. Here's an excerpt (note: the John Shimkus link is no longer active and I can't find a mirror. The Gorenfeld link also has moved, but I found a mirror and updated the link):
- The News Tribune, a newspaper in Tacoma, Washington, did a large multi-story exposé on NESARA [2], (which is very interesting reading in and of itself). The news tribune website ranks 24,687 on alexa [3]. As a newspaper, it has a weekend circulation of 144,000 [4] (the first part of the exposé was published on the weekend). Quatloos.com has an alexa rating of 63,753 [5] and has several pages debunking NESARA. NESARA has been discussed on radio on the Jeff Rense program. NESARA people often hold public protests and show up at other groups' protests, (see [6] for an image of a NESARA protester standing next to Ralph Nader, also [7] and that entire page for more), have carried out expensive truck billboard campaigns in Washington DC ([8] for images, and see "The Trucks" [9] for more detail and verification that they're not photoshopped images). They also hold protests outside the world court in The Netherlands (see [10] for the images of these protests - yes, the site is crazy, I'm posting the link for the images). They frequently send postcards to the world court, and to members of congress - one congressman, John Shimkus, had to point out in his newsletter to constituents that it was a scam [11]. Although Snopes.com doesn't have a NESARA page, other sites about urban legends do [12] [13]. Journalist John Gorenfeld (who has previously been published on wired.com and salon.com) recently put an article on his webpage about NESARA called "The Clinton Cargo Cult". [14]. I believe this addresses your criticism of unverifiability (discuss). - Sednar (talk • contribs)
- Actually I think the wikipedia proposed for deletion policy [15] makes clear that this article cannot be a candidate for being proposed for deletion, "articles that have been previously undeleted or discussed on AfD are clearly contested and are not candidates for {{prod}}." so I'll just remove it. - Sednar (talk • contribs)
[edit] Incorrect verbiage removed
I removed the following verbiage:
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- The Constitution also states that bills must be signed within ten business days of passage by Congress, or they automatically become law if Congress is currently in session. According to this, it would not be possible for Clinton to sign the law seven months later.
Under Article 1, section 7 of the U.S. Constitution, the passage of a bill by Congress does not start the running of the ten day period during which the President generally must sign a bill, etc.
Instead, the ten day period (actually, it's ten days excluding Sundays) begins running when the bill is presented to the President. This is traditionally done by physically delivering the signed copy of the bill (generally signed by the Speaker of the House and the Vice President of the United States, or by other congressional officials duly appointed for that purpose) to a designated employee of the White House or the Executive Office of the President. The date of presentment under Article I, section 7 is the date on which the ten day period begins to run. This has nothing to do with the date of passage.
I suspect (without doing a formal study of the matter) that Acts passed by Congress are generally presented to the President within a couple of weeks of passage, so the basic critique is still valid. You usually wouldn't have a Act passed by Congress with the Congress then sitting on it for months and months without presenting it to the President for signature. I'm not saying it's never happened, though.
Of course, the NESARA conspiracy theory itself is nonsense, and is based in part on misconceptions about how our political and legal systems work. Don't get me started. Yours, Famspear 20:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sources
In the nominated for deletion discussion, some people thought the facts in the article were not supported by reliable sources. I think they are, it's just a lot of reading required to find it, so I put the template on. I'm going to go through and try to change the wording of the article to make it more obvious, i.e., using phrases like "according to the Tacoma Tribune". If anyone sees a particular fact you think isn't sourced anywhere, please put a citation needed tag. - Sednar 08:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
- I think the sourcing is more then adequate now - in fact the sources could probably use a little pruning to reduce redundancy but I'd prefer someone else do that. - Sednar 07:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Anyone speak Japanese?
Apparently there is a book about NESARA but it's in Japanese, if anyone who can translate is interested in updating the article with information about this[16]. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sednar (talk • contribs) 07:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC).
