Talk:Nerdcore hip hop

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of WikiProject Hip hop, an ongoing effort to improve articles related to hip hop culture and hip hop music. The goal of the project is to bring this article, along with all others to featured status. If you have any questions, concerns or wish to participate you can visit the main project page here.
B	This article has been rated as b-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

• I cross-linked this and the "Geek Rock" article as they're related... Perhaps there should be a catagory for geek music?

• I consider Deltron3030's album prior art and definetely Del's lyrics have been about technology and its culture since long time ago (before Nerdcore) but I dunno about classifing it as "nerdcore" since the genre is mostly about college kids playing. Dan The Automator, Kid Koala and DEL are pretty big names, more after the whole Gorillaz project. Will edit and write a bit about Deltron. - Wyz

• Would you consider some of Del Tha Funkee Homosapien's music nerdcore? I'm thinking specifically "Proto Culture" (which is about Sega, arcades, and video games) and lots of the songs of "Deltron 3030", which are all kind of fantasy-ish and resemble the plotline of a video game. Anyone know what I'm talking about? -Rob

Del isn't nerdcore in itself, but Deltron (as a side-project) is. So is MC Paul Berman, I think. It's not just about subject matter, but style too. Fearwig 02:04, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

For the record, Barman doesn't consider himself to be nerdcore, and in fact refers to nerdcore as a "fictional subgenre", as if any other subgenre is so much more valid. Personally, I feel he's a talentless hack and if he doesn't want to be on a list of NC.HH artists, the list is better off without him, but I won't do the edits myself because I don't want to seem like I'm forcing my personal opinions and preferences onto the article (unlike certain "crackers" I could name). - Ugliness Man 11:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

lol @ u - this issue has been ironed out in detail with everyone but you. i have kept my word since. Ytcracker 16:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The issue hasn't been "ironed out in detail" or fully resolved, it's just that most of us got sick of arguing with a brick wall and playing edit ping-pong. When someone who has almost zero cred declares himself to be a "godfather" (without explaining what he's supposedly a "godfather" of), it quickly becomes apparant that arguing with this person is futile. - Ugliness Man 10:44, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

i'm just a godfather get over it. i'm glad it's "apparant" arguing with me is futile. p.s. i think "most of us" is only you. congratulations. Ytcracker 02:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

a buh? what do you mean nerdcore? how do you define nerd? i want answers please

Nerd has (and deserves) its own article; it is a complicated concept, and can mean vastly different things depending on the context. "Nerdcore" is a genre of hip hop written by people who define themselves (or, in some cases, are defined by others) as nerds. Does the article not explain this adequately? 129.2.211.72 07:02, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It reads pretty crystal to me. —RaD Man (talk) 15:34, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 N*E*R*D 2 Vette link 3 MC Chmod 4 Tom Green 5 Optimus Rhyme 6 Goldie Lookin' Chain 7 High-C - Nerdcore Since 1995 8 Unjust omissions 9 Nerdcore, not Nerdcore hip-hop 10 Putting on my rewrite pants 11 Old school nerdcore 12 Frontalittle Squad? 13 Wired Article on NCHH 14 Cleanup? 15 Baddd Spellah 16 Dr. Octagon 17 Jedi Mind Tricks 18 Mc Lars 19 basshunter 20 Futuristic Sex Robotz 21 Nonsensical categorization

[edit] N*E*R*D

Just wondering if N*E*R*D are considered nerd rap?

Nope, not really. —RaD Man (talk) 01:11, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

I strongly disagree that 2 Skinee Js are NerdCore. They should be removed from the article entirely. Nerdcore has a necessary element that the music be produced in your bedroom on your PC (or MAC.) Now this does not have to be LITERALLY true, but the music has to embrace this ethos in order to qualify for the genre. (small world RaD Man, I followed a link from here: [1] PHiZ 06:31, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Frontalot founded the genre, so if he says somebody belongs to it, I'm happy to take his word on it. Now, he also mentions Deltron 3030, as I recall, and people seem to have decided they don't belong in the main list, so if you want to remove them from the list and give your reasons for doing so, that's fine. But they certainly shouldn't be removed from the article entirely, as you suggest; they are, perhaps, an example of "proto-nerdcore". The roots of the nerdcore movement could really be explored in quite a lot of depth, in fact. One could even make a case for tracing things back to the Beastie Boys, if one were so inclined. 129.2.253.240 00:28, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't say Frontalot FOUNDED the genre. He gave it a name, and brought it to a new level of visibility. And my Kangol is off to him for that. Jason Gortician 04:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

People can be nerdy and still not be nerdcore. The artists approved on this page focus on their nerdiness and utilize it.

This whole topic has major issues. Nerdcore is, by definition, a fringe genre with loose associations with hip hop in general, and its own entirely unique community. Including legit underground hip hop artists like Doom, Del, Kool Keith, and the Beastie Boys is illogical as they are still recognized as eccentric members of the hip hop community itself, which none of the nerdcore artists profiled here do in any way. "Proto-nerdcore" is a ridiculous description, like the "Metal Roots" category shortsighted metalheads gave to rock groups like Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc. in the 80's. Just because nerdcore artists identify with these artists does not bring them into their community. Be fair. If it's just so-called "nerdy concepts" you end up bringing in KRS-ONE, Pun, Wu-Tang, the Weathermen, ad nauseum. The idea of nerd rap still carries a very negative connotation even in the New York indie community (look at the Weathermen/Demigods beef), and while the "nerdcore" artists embrace this term, most of the rest of us do not. Daviddun 03:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the external links, you can see that Kool Keith (as Dr Octagon) submitted his song "Ants" to Rhyme Torrents, a nerdcore compilation. So Keith is now calling himself nerdcore, at least sometimes. It's true, none of the rest explicitly identify as "nerdcore". The article never said they did. However, claiming that groups like Deltron 3030 didn't influence nerdcore is absurd. MC Frontalot has specifically cited them as an influence. MC Paul Barman appeared on their album, and I notice you didn't remove him from the list of related artists. Maybe the term "proto-nerdcore" is pushing it (I'll try and change it), but the point is that they are influences. Note that this says nothing about them and everything about nerdcore. The fact is, Led Zeppelin and Hendrix did influence heavy metal artists, among many, many others. That doesn't make Hendrix metal, but it does mean that metal's roots are (in part) in Hendrix. (For that matter, John Lydon auditioned for the Sex Pistols in an "I Hate Pink Floyd" shirt; rebelling against other musical genres was key to the distinct sound and attitude of the Pistols. I'm not claiming Johnny Rotten's homemade t-shirt makes Pink Floyd punk rock, but simply that they were an influence, and worth mentioning.) So chill out. Nobody ever said any of the artists you yanked from the article were nerdcore, except Dr Octagon, and as I said, he is nerdcore. The article specifically states that simply singing about nerdy topics doesn't make a band nerdcore, right there in the intro: "The difference is largely one of self-identification." If they don't call themselves nerdcore, they don't have to be. But they're still relevant, and they still belong in the article. If you don't feel the distinction's drawn clearly enough, please feel free to edit things. But don't just slash holes in the lists. 69.140.12.199 04:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vette link

I changed the "Vette" link in "Fett's Vette" from Chevrolet Corvette to Corvette. It was reverted. This seems odd - the corvette article describes "a small, maneuverable, lightly armed warship," and while it is referring to a naval ship, not spaceship, this seems significantly closer to the meaning of "corvette" in star wars than a sports car manufactured by GM. Perhaps the reasoning for the revert can be explained? —Ethan0 09:50, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I've always assumed that he was refering the the car - although your explaination does make sense. It seemed that mc chris gave him a GM Corvette but on lease - hense needing to finance his 'vette through bounties. Craig Sniffen 17:08, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

he has a delorian.. why would he need two cars? It's fairly obvious he's talking about a Corellian Corvette. -User:GURT

Corvette is a term used in Star Wars for a number of ships, including Corellian Corvette (first ship we see in Star Wars). It seems quite unlikely to me that mc chris refers to GM's.

I more recently found the Slave I article - this seems like a more appropriate thing to link to than either of the other two. -Ethan0 05:29, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] MC Chmod

Keep poor Chmod out of this. He's me, and he's never recorded a damn thing fit for public consumption, trust me. When I first wrote this article, I put him in the list as a joke for friends, which I know was pretty silly, but what the hell. Unfortunately, he keeps popping up in the list, and he most definitely doesn't belong there. I apologize. 129.2.253.240 00:31, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tom Green

He is a nerd and he raps.

[edit] Optimus Rhyme

I changed the link from Optimus Rhyme's webpage to the Optimus Rhyme wikipedia-entry.

Greets,
-Styx 12:30, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Goldie Lookin' Chain

These are a lot more than nerdcore but kind of verge on it in places - especially with the 80s home computer obssesion. Morwen - Talk 14:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] High-C - Nerdcore Since 1995

That was a pretty ill edit, taking High-C off. A rapper since 1988, his first track 'Godzilla' was recorded using an Amiga 500 in 1995. High-C first became known via Usenet text battles in alt.rap and rec.music.hip-hop around 1996.

It's hard to deny the geek value of lyrics like "You're just a smurfer on a co-located server, and I serve my active pages with fervor", or an entire verse centered around 'Lord of the Rings'. "Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand" contains the lyric "I pull out the guide and it says 'Don't Panic'". Another snippet from Usenet (Nov 7 1996) said:

"When it comes to flamin' lamers
You know I'm the master
But profanity's a crutch for inarticlate bastards
I'm like Telnet - i'm here but I'm there
Travel around the world never leavin my chair
It's just another hit from the bayou blaster
When I grip the mic like a Jedi master
Hardwired like a neuromancer
Funky as a mothafuckin' Soul Train dancer
I got rhymes that I ain't even said yet
I'm engineerin' shit just like Lew Eggebrecht
Cuz I been hackin and crackin
2600 phrackin
Phone phreakin and tweakin
Electronically jackin
Snuff rhymes I wrote 'em
So that you can quote 'em
To all the cypherpunks I communicate by modem".

50 Quatloos if you know who Lew Eggebrecht is.

Jason Gortician 04:22, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unjust omissions

When the hell did this start? Apparantly if a nerdcore artist doesn't have their own article, they aren't allowed to be included in a list. This makes no sense at all. Just because someone hasn't taken the time to do an article on a nerdcore artist doesn't mean they're not noteable, and it doesn't mean they don't belong on the list. The worst part about it is that at least one of the wikipedians responsible for the rampant deletions is (allegedly) a nerdcore artist himself. To me, this smacks of bias. An easy way to take a poke at the competition is by repeatedly remove them from this article, at the same time inflating his own article (and possibly other artists he supports). This sort of bullying needs to stop. Instead of saying that they don't belong on the list if they don't have an article, we should put them on the list if external links show that their inclusion is appropriate, then allow people to start articles on them by clicking their names on the list. I don't know how many more ways I have to say this, but there is absolutely no sane and acceptable reason to keep taking Beefy and Jesse Dangerously off the list. I don't know a lot about Beefy, but Jesse D has been doing this for awhile, he has a few CDs out there, he's currently touring, and he appeared on MC Frontalot's "Nerdcore Rising" as a featured vocalist. What more do you need? - Ugliness Man 12:40, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

An external links list would be a great solution. There needs to be a good reason to take an MC off of this list. Internecine rivalries are silly, in this case. If you're an MC, your rhymes are the deciding factor, not what some over-zealous editor considers nerdcore. If it is an MC removing other nerdcore artists, how weak is that? - Jason Gortician 12:40, 03 March 2006 (UTC)

There shouldn't be a list at all, but if there must, at least move it to list of nerdcore hip hop performers or something. Limiting it to entries with Wikipedia articles seems reasonable to me, but then, as noted, I'd rather not have a list at all -- seems redundant with a category. Tuf-Kat 18:05, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

And there should absolutely not be anyone on the list with an external link to their homepage. Tuf-Kat 18:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Why? That makes no sense. If they don't have a Wikipedia article, but they are a NC.HH artist, and their page (the external link) is the verification, what's the problem? If someone puts them on the list without a link, someone else steps in and deletes it saying it's "not noteable" or something like that. If an artist isn't linked, they're deemed unworthy, but if an artist is linked, it's spam? Am I the only one who sees the problem here? - Ugliness Man 18:23, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Because Wikipedia is supposed to be a self-contained unit. If they're notable enough to be mentioned they should be linked and have an article onsite. If they don't yet have an article, it should be a redlink. Tuf-Kat 06:09, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

"Wikipedia is supposed to be a self-contained unit." <---- This is the opposite of true. 128.12.110.50 19:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I reverted the last comment as per WP:NPA Intinn 11:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

So you condone (or support) Ytcracker's bullying and tactics? Pretty sad. This is supposed to be an online encyclopedia, not a pissing contest where a hack can screw around with the competition and go unchallenged. I guess NC.HH rappers are too polite to get into a beef war with that chump and take him down, but eventually the real geeks will win the battle. This is far from over. - Ugliness Man 16:14, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

He's never posted to the hip-hop newsgroups under his own name, that I can see. I've been the alpha geek there for nearly ten years. If he has anything to say, he knows where to find me. Jason Gortician 08:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I just removed one paragraph from this talk page which was full of personal attacks. Of course everyone is free to dig it up from history and revert it if they disagree with me removing it. Intinn 21:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

bullying? i didnt put that note there about having referenced articles, someone else did - for example, i think beefy actually deserves an article - hes been featured on radio broadcasts and the like. i just think its stupid to have a shitton of artists in there who have no genuine credibility. it wouldnt walk on any other form of music and i dont think examples of dirty south artists or old school artists, etc. have a huge list of people getting added and readded who arent prominent members of the genre. i guess i am biased because i have over 160 tracks available and have absolute, undeniable credibility in this genre. some of these artists who have started their articles have been VfDed successfully so why would they belong here? Ytcracker 19:11, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

oh and as a postscript, calling me a chump, inciting a beef war, and talking about real geeks winning the battle or whatever else is really retarded. ill collaborate with anyone, have always released my music for free, and dont even see this as a matter of competition. dont get it twisted up. as i said before, would you cloud any other form of musics wiki article with a ton of external links of mainly one-offs? probably not. im a godfather - recognize. Ytcracker 19:32, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not intending to "incite" anything, I don't start beefs, I'm just calling it like I see it. And I'm having a real problem accepting such a holier than thou attitude from someone who uses such idiotic cliches and seems to be afraid of apostrophes and the Shift key. Bragging about how many tracks you have is nothing, since quantity is not the same as quality. Pointing out that you'll "collaborate with anyone" is also nothing since nobody of consequence would bother collaborating with you. There's no basis for claiming that the acts you keep deleting are "one offs", but your idiotic comment on "clouding" is a moot point, since this is a specific enough sub-genre that the list is justified. And just what the hell are you a "godfather" of? If anything, you're a bandwagonner, and that "recognize" bullshit just shows you for the chump you are. Here's the bottom line: you are not an impartial or disinterested third party, so your constant removal of other artists from this article just reeks of bias. You do not own Wikipedia, stop treating it like it's your bitch. - Ugliness Man 20:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

im incredibly ecstatic that the grammar police has shown up to criticize my usage of the apostrophe and shift key. frankly, if you really want to pollute this entry with whatever external links to whatever artists you like, ill quit editing them out and let some admin do it like Tuf-Kat, who i believe posted the rule in the first place. you dont know a fucking thing about me, who ive performed with, who ive collaborated with, how long ive been doing what ive been doing - i dont even think my own article has ALL of the specifics. anyway, if it hurts your ass so much that i am editing people out as per the rule posted, ill quit just for you, honeybear. kisses and hugs. love, the godfather aka the silicon don nerd life forever Ytcracker 00:20, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Both of you are violating Wikipedia policy by using personal attacks. Wikipedia:No personal attacks is a potentially blockable offense. Please be aware of the WP:3RR, because both of you can be blocked for breaking it. No agreement or consensus can occur on this page unless an honest and fruitful discussion begins. Tuf-Kat 06:02, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

For the record, I've been trying to avoid performing any revisions myself, for just that reason. I've only been objecting to what I saw as bad behaviour. I feel that none of this will ever be "honest and fruitful" as long as a (somewhat self-proclaimed) NC.HH artist is involved in the editing process. If we do go with the earlier suggestion of moving the list of artists to a separate article, that way artists who don't yet have articles can be listed with only external links, as long as those external links are sufficient proof that the artists are noteworthy. And by the way, your comment from earlier, "If they don't yet have an article, it should be a redlink", doesn't take into account the fact that crackerboy here, and his sock puppets, remove redlinks almost as soon as their added, so most people don't even get a chance to see those redlinks. - Ugliness Man 08:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

crackerboy and the sock puppets? you're such a sweetheart and i love you. just bury the hatchet - i already said if you are going to get all riled up over it because i'm involved in the genre, i won't bother touching the artists in the article. i don't have any problem refraining from edits, but should the scene grow to any level of true significance, i am positive you are going to see a 100+ person list of people who really did jump on the bandwagon. i voted keep in FSRs VfD, would love to see Beefy on here, and would love to research others in the genre who are actually active and productive. again, i have ZERO problems with not touching this article and letting you decide who is worthy and who isn't. cheers. Ytcracker 05:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, Beefy here. I know what could fix this! Just let me have a wiki article! No? Ok, fine. Let the madness continue. For the record, I have no beef with yt or any other artist. And I do think that some artists don't belong on the list if they really only have a handful of songs. I only have a few myself but the collection grows and I like to think I'm gaining a bit of respect in the nerdcore community. Some artists who come up with a couple catchy nerd songs may not deserve to be on the list. But I honestly don't know how you'd judge that kind of thing. And any nerdcore guy or gal who says they wouldn't want to collaborate with yt is a fool! Beefy 01:55, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

So which of you removed the High-C link, and why? Be a man and tell us, if you dare. - Jason Gortician 04:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Everyone, it's not about anyone being just or unjust, and Wikipedia is not a place for people to argue. Any nerdcore artist who isn't verifiable is likely to be removed. That's how it goes; this is an encyclopedia, we do not include just anything. Friday (talk) 00:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Verifiable as nerdcore would involve...reading their lyrics and listening to their music. Jason Gortician 01:41, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, looking into it, LOTR and a few others don't seem to meet Wikipedia's specious criteria for inclusion. Why haven't you deleted them? Jason Gortician 08:33, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Verifiability has nothing at all to do with reading their lyrics or listening to their music. Verifiability is about finding reliable sources- your own interpretations of the music belong on another site, not Wikipedia. The page at WP:V I keep referrring you to explains all of this. Anyway, thanks for the tip- I do see some others who have no indication of meeting WP:MUSIC. If you want to help, you can do a proposed deletion on those articles by inserting things like {{prod|this band fails [[WP:MUSIC]]}} at the top of them. You can give whatever reason you think is appropriate. As a general rule, bands that fail the music guideline are likely to be deleted. No sure why you call the music guideline specious- have you read it? It's pretty clear, and we try to apply it to the band articles we find. I believe that guideline came about because we get tons of articles on bands, and a large precentage of them are things we don't want. This being an encyclopedia, we can't have things that are unverifiable, and we don't want to cover every local bar band in the world. Friday (talk) 14:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Deleting content is not my style. "Some create, while others destroy..." If this is a nerdcore page, and Frontalot is the acknowledged founder of that movement, his whole point was being indy, unpopular, obscure, unknown. And the impact a band has can't always be measured by mainstream sources.

For example, my grind band, Gortician was one of the biggest unsigned metal bands of all time. We outcharted Cannibal Corpse and Six Feet Under (major label metal acts) on MP3.com with BOOM BOX TAPES. Guntgrutcher and Cannibal Crave wrote songs about us. Benalto credited us with influencing them to write two different songs. Space War online has a race of people named after us. We were at the spearhead of the entire underground metal scene online. Napalm Death, At The Gates, Brutal Truth and others still wear our t-shirts. For those in the know, Gortician is legendary. Unsung Hero Records released several of our CDs.

But I have a feeling that you'd still delete us if I wrote it up. You're applying mainstream criteria to underground acts. For that matter, High-C regularly outcharted Bushwick Bill on the Lafayette, LA MP3.com charts, and dominated the keystyle battle scene on Usenet for the duration it lasted. I'll get a CD to AMG if that will appease you. But this article is about nerdcore artists. Not nerdcore artists with major and indy label releases. Do you police all groups/genres (less than an hour after I posted the article), or just the nerdcore scene? Jason Gortician 21:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Tuf-Kat: We shouldn't be linking to people's personal homepages here. We're not here to publicize unknown artist- the encyclopedia should mention only those who are well documented in reliable sources. I'll probably continue removing external links from the list. Friday (talk) 22:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

External links and personal pages aren't the same thing. If the only link provided for an artist is a myspace with one song and a bunch of insipid "OMG eye am sooooooooo nerd!!!" blog entries, than I understand the removal. But if someone adds an artist to the list, and provides an external link, and the fact that it's an external link is the only justification for removing them, that's not quality control, that's tyranny. If you don't want to take the time to check the link and see if the artist in question is noteworthy, and you simply remove the artist based only on the fact that it's an external link, that's the opposite of verification. It's a bit of a contradiction, IMO, for someone to put so much effort into constantly removing these artists from the list, yet "doesn't have the time" to see whether or not that artist should be removed. Wikipedia doesn't need indiscriminate lazy janitors, it needs editors who care enough about the articles to take a moment to check things out before they make these decisions. In other words, if you don't care about NC.HH enough to actually look at the pages, then you should just ignore the NC.HH article altogether. - Ugliness Man 06:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Judging them on whether their websites are insipid or not is the exact sort of thing we do not do here- that would amount to original research. If you disagree with WP:V, take it up on that talk page if you must. But please don't argue that point on individual article talk pages. For those who think that only nerdcore artists or fans are qualified to edit this article, please see WP:OWN. Any competant editor is capable of helping to ensure our articles are verifiable- it's what's expected of every editor. If some artists are "underground" and inherently unverifiable, we can't include them here. WP:V is non-negotiable. If you want to write whatever you like without regard for Wikipedia's editorial policies, you're free to do so on your own web site. Friday (talk) 13:40, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I made a page "List of obscure nerdcore artists" and moved all the obscure(or deleted, from the history) people to there. Hopefully that will be a solution acceptible to all. There are not many good nerdcore references on the net and without these links it is impossible to discover many of these worthy songs, even if they aren't Notable or Verifiable or any of those important sounding terms. Perle 14:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for nothing, Friday. Perle 14:52, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Content forking provides a good overview on content forking. There are good reasons and bad reasons to do it. Trying to avoid verifiability concerns is bad reason. I've turned List of obscure nerdcore artists into a redirect here. If the genre is verifiable, it's good to have an article on it. It's not good to take a bunch of unverifiable stuff and stick it into a list. If people disagree, it can be discussed, but please: If what you disagree with is the verifiability policy itself, don't argue that here. Friday (talk) 14:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

"It's not good to take a bunch of unverifiable stuff and stick it into a list." Why not? And if it is a list of links, isn't it verified by its very nature? A link's verification is the fact that it exists on the internet. The page doesn't include research about the artists or anything, just a statement that such links exist for those who are interested, and subsumes them under the weakest useful categorization possible. Perle 15:29, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Jason Gortician take a look at my edits; is that an acceptable solution to you? (clearly not to Friday or YT) Perle 15:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

It looks like 24/7 remover Friday already took your changes down. I say we do the nerdcore page, and link it externally. As for High-C, Unsung Hero Records is going to release 'Bootleg' from Meter Vs. Yard, and a High-C e.p. That's two indy releases. From there, I'll get copies to AMG, and a few reviews under my belt. Altrap.com will probably be the first. Then I guess I'll pay for my 12" on my own, since my DJ seems to be under the weather of late. If my article gets deleted after that, I'm picking up metal. YT seems to have run! away! Jason Gortician 18:27, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

i told you guys i'd stay out of this and let everyone else play it out. i've been following the discussion but i simply won't edit the artists section anymore, and was only doing so per the rule posted. again, i don't see anyone else in the genre as "competition", nor have i ever removed anyone out of malice, etc. Ytcracker 18:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

and i hope you're kidding about the "is friday ytcracker?" comment - as i said before i don't give a shit - i'll link any nerdcore artist from my own frontpage on my own website if it will clear the air that i deleted anyone because i have something against them. Ytcracker 18:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

That'd be very big of you. Perle and I are working on a definitive page, and we wouldn't dream of excluding you. You've received national press coverage, after all. Want to just throw in on one big nerdcore site with us? I'll even spring for the domain and hosting. You might provide balance to the force. I see no point in there being rifts in this tiny, burgeoning scene. Jokey beefs aside.

Rapped at Player's Ball? Damn, G. If only Friday had your sensibility. P.S. [BeDoper's Portal] has links to High-C, Meter Versus Yard, Old Scratch and Andrew Octopus. As much as I'd love a link, I'm much more interested in other nerdcore artists listening to some of my tracks. Jason Gortician 20:19, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

In more sensible mode, I'd say the Sebutones qualify for nerdcore (Buck 65 and Sixtoo get spacey and futuristic). Is Buck 65 nerdcore? How about every MC to ever come out of Canada? Governor Bolts may well qualify, too. This labeling thing sort of suxors. But, food for thought, anyway. Jason Gortician 21:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Just so we're clear, we're saying that I'm not a verifiable nerdcore artist? I'm 98% my songs say otherwise. This genre is new and it is small and I don't think it can grow easily by people saying, "These guys who have been in a bunch magazine articles can be on the list, but this kid who's only been on the radio can't be." At this point I don't want to be on the list, but it is pretty upsetting that what I put out isn't good enough to be documented by wikipedia, the end all and be all of verification. I'm good enough to be on these documentaries and whatnot, but since I haven't been on G4 I suck?Beefy 10:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

In all fairness, Captain Beefyheart, Friday is the only over-zealous editor who thinks that. The rest of us wish he would piss off and make positive contributions, preferably elsewhere. It's abundantly clear that you are nerdcore as hell. Jason Gortician 21:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

i agree that you are. what i *think* may be going on is WP:MUSIC has certain guidelines as far as significance goes - just because a band would get a writeup in a local paper kind of thing doesn't necessarily qualify them for wikipedia - at a cursory glance. however, the section in WP:MUSIC starting with "For performers outside of mass media traditions:" (cntl-f for it), i think most of us qualify, especially as the scene grows and the primary originators receive recognition. Ytcracker 08:43, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

That's a good point. I'd say Meester Beefy qualifies on the basis of his appearance in the upcoming Nerdcore documentary. I wonder if he used that sample from Little Nicky yet? "Say my name: Mr. Beefy!". At any rate, I plan on writing him up next. Peace. Jason Gortician 23:56, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Friday is at it again. Now he's listed the High-C page for deletion, and gotten several other people to support him, even though I've provided two indy releases that High-C appeared on. And they say the lyrics are a copyright violation? I'm getting sick of this cocksucker. They're even trying to hi-jack the name High-C and redirect it to Hi-C. Jealous punks. Jason Gortician 21:43, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, trying to take Jesse off, and keeping Beefy off is a pile of crap. Man up, nerds. Jason Gortician 02:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nerdcore, not Nerdcore hip-hop

I know this is nitpicking, but it seems strange for the title of the article to be "Nerdcore hip-hop" rather that simply "Nerdcore". It's along the lines of calling Industrial music "Industrial Metal", a bit redundant. I would change the title myself, but I'm not yet well-versed enough to do that. --DestradoZero 19:21, 24 May 2006

The first recorded use of the word "nerdcore" was in the MC Frontalont song "Nerdcore Hiphop", which begins with the line "Nerdcore hip hop, other rappers run in fear..." There was some early variation on how many words it was - Frontalot originally spelled it "Nerdcore Hiphop" in the title, but "nerd core hip hip" in the lyrics - but we seem to have settled on three. I see absolutely no reason to change the genre name; this is the name it's had from day one. 69.140.12.199 22:33, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, "nerdcore" used to refer to geeky punk/emo type stuff. So "nerdcore hip-hop" is entirely correct. 74.234.67.188 17:15, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Would that original nerdcore include artists like The Impossibles? ReverendG 18:41, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Putting on my rewrite pants

I made some heavy revisions to the article; feel free to hate them and revert them on sight. But somebody write a stub or something for poor Baddd Spellah, Frontalot's primary beatsmith. He clearly and undisputably meets WP:MUSIC, and he didn't even get an external link before. 69.140.12.199 00:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

For bonus points, I added a Wikiquote article. It's very scanty and hastily done; it could be significantly expanded by someone with a bit more motivation. It does, at least, quote most of the songs mentioned in passing in the article body. 69.140.12.199 16:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old school nerdcore

I'm digging the nerdcore music and genre, and have followed computer music for a very long time. This brought back memories of an early rap track produced and distributed via BBSes called "Vote 4 Me" by Leinad of Avalanche (demo group). I believe it was in the Assembly 1994 music compo. It might be worth noting him as one of the earliest nerdcore rappers (albeit at 14400bps the files couldn't be too large). Thanks to scene.org, the song is still availible and free to download (requires a MOD file player, winamp, etc) as it was a tracker file): http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=%2Fparties%2F1994%2Fassembly94%2Fm4ch%2Fvote4me.zip&fileinfo ... he had another rap mod song as well, but I can't remember the name. - telmnstr

[edit] Frontalittle Squad?

Should the Frontalittle Squad be included? They've been around for a few years now and have released a lot more tracks than some of the artists on here. They're included on the Rhymetorrents compilation and one of their members (Glenn Case) has worked with MC Frontalot and MC Chris. Unfortunately I don't know that there's enough citable information on them to merit inclusion. Someone had requested an article for them on Wikipedia:Requested_articles/music#Performers_and_Bands_F:, but I'm pretty sure there's not enough there for a real article just yet. Just wanted to breach the topic in case anyone here wants to discuss it. 74.132.201.208 05:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wired Article on NCHH

All of the NCHH artists who appeared in Wired (page 62, September 2006) should now be eligible for inclusion in Wikipedia: Frontalot, funky49, Sucklord, Beefy, High-C, Ham-STAR, Optimus Rhyme and YTcracker. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.153.67.48 (talk • contribs). 12:59, 2 September 2006

• Articles for the artist Beefy have been created and deleted at least eight times. Look here and here and here. It has been through AfD discussions twice; see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beefy and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beefy (artist). If this guy is finally notable enough, someone is going to have to do really great job on an article with lots of references, else it's sure to be deleted again. --Satori Son 14:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
• same thing with futuristic sex robotz - theyve had their article nuked a hundred times but theyve gotten a TON of press in print media as well as online - certain notability will probably debated with other artists because press has become somewhat widespread in this genre as of late, but FSR is definitely due for inclusion. Ytcracker 22:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup?

Does this article still need the cleanup tag? It's still got a lot of OR, but that's sort of inevitable when dealing with a fairly obscure DIY subgenre not really covered by many peer-reviewed journals. It is not, however, "ungrammatical, poorly formatted, confusing, etc." (as far as I can see), and thus doesn't seem to merit a cleanup tag. If someone wants to change the tag to reflect a more specific objection, that'd be helpful. Otherwise, if there's no debate, I'll remove the tag in a week or so. There's nothing uglier than an unmerited cleanup tag, don't you think? 69.140.12.199 02:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

You've got some good points, but if you wanna create an account, I wouldn't bother waiting a week. Create an account to get yourself a screen name (therefore making you both more accountable and more credible than a random IP), and go ahead and chuck the tag if there's no objection within a day or two. - Ugliness Man 16:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I've been editing Wikipedia for almost three years. I have my own (complicated) reasons for not wanting to log in. Doubtless I'll have to if the bizarre trend towards giving IP editors less and less power continues, but for now I'm quite happy without. I've never before had anyone be so unfamiliar with WP policy that they've reverted one of my edits based on my lack of an account. Thanks for the well-meaning advice, though. 69.140.12.199 19:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Baddd Spellah

He's been the power behind nerdcore's throne for years, he remixed both MC Frontalot and mc chris before Karl Olsen bragged about doing the same, his remix of "Ten Year Old" won him a track in his honor from chris, he currently provides the vast majority of Frontalot's beats (including most of the songs on the Nerdcore Rising album), and his latest collaboration with the Front won the CBC's Remix the Ring contest, earning him a cool grand and an on-air interview. There's never been a better time to write an article on the poor bastard! In my opinion, it should be the single biggest priority of any nerdcore-loving Wikipedians. I'd write it myself, but at this rate I'm afraid people will start suspecting I'm the only nerdcore-loving Wikipedian, so I'll give you guys a bit of time before I jump in on this long, long overdue article. But seriously, somebody's got to do it; that red link's a disgrace. A quick bit of looking about the internet reveals at least one interview that would be useful to anyone authoring a Baddd Spellah article. 69.140.12.199 03:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

• i wholeheartedly agree - definitely a cornerstone of this genre. Ytcracker 21:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dr. Octagon

I have to wonder if Dr. Octagon can really be considered a part of the nerdcore "scene," as the article states. While one of his songs was on the compilation, as far as I know he's never communicated with any nerdcore artists and IIRC when a fan at a show asked him what he thought of nerdcore his response was something along the lines of "what's that?"

Not saying he's not a great artist, or that he's not nerdy, but I think in general if nerdcore is to be considered more a group of loosely affiliated artists who choose to use that label, he doesn't really belong in the list. --63.249.103.122 04:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. "Nerdcore" is a made-up, isolated subgenre and the "nerdcore artists" listed on this page are mostly being added by the artists themselves. The history of nerd rap is a perfectly valid topic and I thought this page would be the place for that, but apparently I was wrong. Talented, known MCs who could could legimitately be called nerd rap (Ultra Magnetic MCs, Dr. Octagon, Del, MF DOOM, MC Paul Barman, etc) shouldn't be on this page. Some of them have specifically indicated that they have and want nothing to do with "nerdcore". 65.96.170.247 22:07, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jedi Mind Tricks

Jedi Mind Tricks, are they considered nerdcore?--ConradKilroy 18:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

No. See my comment above. As the article painstakingly points out, repeatedly, "Nerdcore" applies to MC Frontalot and people who are copying him. Legitimate MCs who happen to focus on non-standard themes are not "nerdcore". 65.96.170.247 22:09, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mc Lars

I think Mc Lars should be mentioned somewhere in the article as one of the more famous Nerdcore rappers. I mean he even invented the term "iGeneration" and has made songs with Mc Chris. User: unknown 11:12, 9 January 2007

Never mind, I just saw him in the list of most notable nerdcore artists User: unknown 11:16, 9 January 2007

[edit] basshunter

what about Basshunter???? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.111.165.100 (talk) 09:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

What does basshunter have to do with nerdcore, or even hip hop in general? Dj snyder 09:16, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Futuristic Sex Robotz

Seriously? Still no FSR? 71.231.13.14 05:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Add FSR!

[edit] Nonsensical categorization

Can someone tell me why it is that MC Paul Barman, who claims NOT to be nerdcore, is listed as a nerdcore artist...while the Former Fat Boys, who HAVE called themselves nerdcore, are listed as non-nerdcore? I'm not quite following this here article. Dj snyder 09:21, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Unfotunately what someone wants to call themselves doesn't always influence how other people view them. Barman is a whiner and doesn't want to have the nerdcore label associated with him, but he still fits the category due to the subject matter of some of his lyrics. I could put together an album of music that sounds like techno, and then say "I'm not techno, I'm polka", but that doesn't mean that Wikipedia would be obligated list it as a polka album. Categorization is based on observable criteria, not the wishes of the subject in question. - Ugliness Man 10:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

And yet I wouldn't be surprised if FFB's got just as many "nerdy" references, if not more, than someone like Jesse D. Why the hating man? WHY Dj snyder 05:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)