Talk:Nephilim

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[edit] Notes?

Anyone know what happened to the Notes section? It may have been inadvertently deleted, as the superscript references ("example[1]") lead nowhere now.

[edit] An unfounded assumption

In "Nephilim in parahistory," in referring to the theory of the Nephilim being Neanderthals or a Neanderthal/Homo Sapien hybrid, the writer states "This however is highly suspect due to the fact that angels are defined as being if not beings of light than at the very least more graceful versions of homo sapiens." Where does he maintain that angels are defined as "more graceful versions of homo sapiens?" Some Bible verses in which angels appeared to man describe men being filled with dread at the sight of them. In Genesis, these angels killed men by the hundred thousands (Isaiah 37:36). Where is his reference to this opinion that they are slender and graceful beings?

a response: the writer (who continually erases my corrections to the "nephilim" entry) has no source for this assumption.

[edit] huh?

"In light of the alien abduction scenario, some have speculated a form of artificial insemination being implemented, which isn't necessarily comepletely impossible considering that one of the fallen angels named Tamiel (also called Kasyade) taught men the science of abortion." makes absolutely no sense. what does artificial insemination have to do with abortion?16:36, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

They're linked in a lot of peoples' minds, both having to do with human intervention into the reproductive cycles. Also, in the case of external fertilization and implantation, the remaining fertilized ova that aren't implanted need to be disposed of in some manner, so they're often destroyed in a manner consistent with abortion if one believes life to start after conception. -Fuzzy 17:53, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2 Lines

Two lines in a book spawned a lot of creativity, see: Cultural references to Nephilim.

a response: If you do the research, you'll find a lot more than two lines, both in the Bible and throughout history. If you're interested, email me mudskipper3@yahoo.com

[edit] Dumb question

Could "Sons of God" simply refer to human males descended from Adam, while "daughters of man" would refer to females born by humans? The point of the passage would only mean that men and women would bear daughters who would proliferate the human race across the Earth; in some human villages, there would simply be taller or larger men who dwarfed the Hebrews in size, making them feel figuratively like insects. This might refer to racial characteristics of other larger human beings who were seen for the first time in these areas.((response: No, tradition, history, archaeology, all confirm the bible when it describes nephilim and giants. I included my email above, if you want to know more))

  • Adam was the first human, not just the first Hebrew. The Hebrews came about after the flood, much later. Nephilim were before the flood. Peace.((response: And also after the flood, in Canaan))
That's one interpretation. But given that Adam's son Cain goes off to the land of Nod and finds a wife there, it's not clear that all humans are descended from Adam. thx1138 12:55, 21 December 2005 (UTC)((response: According to my understanding of history/Bible, it is. If he didn't marry a descendant of Adam, Cain married an offspring of the "sons of God." If you know otherwise, I'd be interested to see the source))
If that were "given", but it's not... There is no ancient tradition recorded anywhere that Cain "finds a wife there"... There are plenty of ancient traditions recorded that Cain was allowed to marry his own sister (the prohibition against incest not applying until later) ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 13:58, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually, most ancient traditions record that Cain found a wife there. See the Midrash (not the article, the actual midrash). Many record that the wife he found there was lilith. --FDuffy 15:25, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

You would definately have to concur that Cain took his sister as a wife. Setting aside Mythology and looking at the bible literally shows that God created one man and one woman. ARNO

It's not a dumb question, it's quite reasonable I think. Job 1:6 uses the same expression 'sons of God' when relating the events leading up to the afflictions of Job. The sons of God (angels) were presenting themselves before the throne of God, including Satan, in the heavenly realm. That the Genesis account also mentions that the sons of God and daughters of men had relations suggests it was a remarkable event and not what had been going on until then. On the point about the line of Adam, regardless of what traditions say (and traditions say all sorts of things), the Biblical account states that he lay with his wife having travelled East, but not that he met her there. --Recurring 11:38, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

(from WP:RM)

[edit] Nephilim (Bible) → Nephilim

  • I was trying to do this myself, because Nephilim redirected to Nephilim (Bible), but since the biblical reference is the primary meaning of the term (all others derive from or refer to this origin), Nephilim should be the article name and all others should be qualified. So, I checked, and Nephilim had an edit history and so could not be moved-over. Believing that only a redirect with no edit history can be moved over, I moved Nephilim to Nephilim (old redirect) leaving a fresh redirect in the old article name, then tried to move Nephilim (Bible) over the top of this new redirect at Nephilim that now has no edit history. I have done this before, with 2000 AD. However, it won't let me overmove Nephilim (which is now a redirect with no edit history) with Nephilim (Bible). Can someone either fix this, or better, tell me what I am doing wrong so I can do it, and get it right next time? I just noticed that the error page says "Error: could not submit form", so maybe it isn't a procedural error of mine. I get the same error in FireFox (double-proxied) and IE (single-proxy). PhilHibbs 12:05, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Agreed. -- Naive cynic 19:08, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)
    • I'm not sure how to, but I just wanted to mention the Nephilim only redirects to Nephilim (Bible), it does not disambiguate, so there isn't any reason not to move it. --Dyss 17:48, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"who cite the teaching of Jesus in the Book of Matthew that angels do not marry in the afterlife"

where is that? - Omegatron 23:33, Dec 29, 2004 (UTC)

Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." (NKJV) chikalee517

What is the singular of Nephilim?

Edit: I removed my old text, since it was somewhat wrong (it was an adjective rather then a noun). I spoke to someone who is more expect then me in hebrew and he told me that the singular is Nephil (the i is like feel). נּפיל

Perhaps it should have two l's in english - anyone know the rules on that? I think also the plural form should have two l's. 03/27/05 11:495 pm EST

[edit] Nephilim art

I believe there must be some classic, free artworks with Nephilim. I couldn't find anything good with Google. If somebody finds something, please add it here.

[edit] Madeleine L'Engle's Many Waters

Nephilim (and seraphim, but that's irrelevant here) figure quite prominently in the plot of L'Engle's Many Waters. The book takes place around the flood ... Should it be included in Culture References? 'I believe so. Please feel free to add it.64.145.137.34 19:26, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] X-Men

There is a somewhat recent story in the X-Men comic book series which explains the Nephilim legends in the context of the Marvel Universe. I beleive it should be added. There is already information concerning this developement on the Nightcrawler and Mystique pages. 64.145.137.34 19:26, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

The Marvel version have their own page now (Neyaphem) -- Noclevername 05:16, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nephil, nephilim

Nobody seems to know what the singular form of "Nephilim" is, Although following the trend of Anak to Anakim, Cherub to Cherubim and Seraph to Seraphim, perhaps "Nephil" might make sense.

First of all: Nobody? I'm sure a person with sufficient knowledge of the language can attest to nephîyl/nephil (הנּפל) being the correct (or wrong) singular form of nephilim.

I've always used "nephil" as the singular, following the cherub-cherubim pattern. Also, once this matter is settled, houldn't the article be moved to a the singular form?
No, it shouldn't be moved. The only references to them in notable sources are in the clearly plural usage - Nephilim. --User talk:FDuffy 21:43, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Second of all, this particular section doesn't seem very wikipedic: perhaps "Nephil" might make sense.

Wouldn't the singular be nephilim, like 1 sheep, 2 sheep ?

"The Bible also says that angels cannot mate because they have no genitals." Where? I don't believe that it exists. The Bible says that angels don't marry. Is this extrapolation from what the Bible does say? Citation would be helpful. I think that someone should delete that.

I've never seen that either. I've deleted the sentence. Besides, the Book of Enoch says they have sex. --francis 21:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

In reference to hebrew the singular form should be "nephel" or "nefel" -- http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05309 -- Nicolas --11:40 (Paris) 8 december 2005

No, they say "nephel" means miscarriage/abortion. The singular of nephilim is nephil (n@phiyl) [1] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.162.46.132 (talk • contribs) 01:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

I sort of have an in-between theory. I believe that they do what the greys do, which is artificial insemination (particularly because normal sex seems redundant, cumbersome, and somewhat contradictory to Lucifer's very attitude, which is portrayed as that of an elitist/fascist snobbery. he would not dirty himself up like that, that is the stuff the terran riffraf do so that he can be more outstanding in contrast). I also believe that it would be very naive to think of these B'nai Ellohim in a biological manner, which would be redundant for beings who are supposed to be given such privelages. Thus I suspect that they are cybernetic, with a minimum of biological matter for a nervous system (I do think they cannot be wholly aetherial, since H'Shem warns them that they will "die" in Psalms, suggesting that their bodies will die in the fires and they wander as ghosts for an eternity). If that is the case, then I even wonder if "hybrid" is the proper term, they may have merely created some gametes extracted from human DNA, certain traits switched on and off as is desired from the phenotype, and then re-inserted into the female for incubation. It is here where I like David Icke's view, because he claims that the nephilim are bred for the specific purpose of being possessed through hypnotic suggestion (he does not believe the "lizards" to be physical, remember, they are aetherial themselves, they merely possess bodies, though he says they can also make their hosts shapeshift existence being an illusion).

Just some thoughts, why not?

RoyBot 69.248.43.27 25 December 2005 19:01

A better question is Why? --User talk:FDuffy 15:25, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


Truly, I am tired of the superstitious, elemental nature of Biblical enterpretation and how it has seeped into both the evangelical communities, and certainly the "Fundamentalist" communities (honestly, this very unsophisticated, bio-centric attitude that sees the world like this is VERY pagan in my definition of the word). Again, given the description of Sheten Helil, I cannot see him or his folowers doing something so self-degrading as copulating with animals (we are talking about a being who fell because of vain hubris, and seeing the human-or any wholly biological body, I just cannot think that A: They where biological, or B: They would want to involve themselves with the uncleanliness of biology). These are gods we are talking about, not some young gangster...

Also, I have simply been thinking about this and other theological issues like this for three years, and feel it a requirement to share some of this stuff. See my work on the following topics:


  • Billy Meier (This relates the topic below)...
  • Samyaza (Think, how could he have known this name?)
  • Benjamin Creme (Had a long dialogue with one Sethie over Benji Creme's disturbing message)
  • The Roswell UFO incident (Where I added some links to information concerning it's connection to Paperclip).
  • Pantheism (Cosmotheism section, also argued in the forum against someone who said pantheism was not idolatry, where I added yes it was and more).

and...

NOTE: Please do not take that word god as having anything to do with God, who is wholly transcendent, living in the Platonic realm, the physical universe eminating from Him, the gods themselves are his creations in his own image and likeness, as we were created. (See: thedivinecouncil.com and the site's author on Laura Lee, though I kind of dissagree with some of his reasoning, because how can non-physical beings physically materialize? That is rediculous, unless they ARE indeed physical but merely living in another dimension, I just think they are somewhere else, I also dissagree with his non-E.T. stance, given that he does NOT believe the existence of such as against God, citing a very old and obscure Church dogma to prove it, and secondly, since we where destined to become members of the coincil ourselves, then why could not they have begun in a similar way as well? God could have still created them).

So, that was just a longwinded way of answering why.

   Sorry,

   Ideocentric Roybot (69.248.43.27) 06:22, 03 January 2006

[edit] Sons of the Bird

Spoiler warning: Plot and/or ending details about The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag follow.

In one of my favorite Heinlein stories, The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag, the antagonists are a shadowy demonic crew who style themselves "the Sons of the Bird". They turn out to be creations of the "artist" who has created our world (perhaps our whole universe?) as a work of art, but are now considered "bad art" that must be eliminated before the work is judged; this elimination takes place in apocalyptic (though cryptic) fashion at the end of the story.

The account here of the Flood being a reckoning for the Nephilim brought this story to mind. Is there any evidence whether Heinlein had it in mind? --Trovatore 18:50, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Pointless Paragraph?

The phrase "sons of God" is sometimes translated into English as "sons of gods". The Hebrew word, "Elohim", is a plural form, but is often used with single verbs and adjectives (as in this case) when the single meaning refers to the "Godhead."

I don't think this paragraph has anything to do with the article. The Nephilim have nothing to do with the Trinity discussion. You might as well put this note under every quotation of a Hebrew scripture that uses the word "Elohim." --216.45.139.148 08:48, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually the Hebrew term "Elohim" means "God of gods" and is the first direct reference to God in the Bible (Genesis 1:1).

[edit] Gibborim

Hi, I came across this page Gibborim (biblical) while surfing pages related to the comic book series runaways. I've been trying to improve it, but I'm having trouble separting true Judeo-Christian belief from new age belief. Now I realize that it might just be another name for this page.

Should I just give up and make it a redirect page, or should I continue. Any help would be appreciated. Stephen Day 02:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nephalem or Nephilim?

Hello,I have noticed something very interesting,the article says "In the video game Diablo II: Lord of Destruction the Ancients Ones are referred to as "Spirits of the Nephilim"."Well,I just went in to my game and saw the long speech,the altar of the heavens said"We are the spirits of the NephAlEm,the Ancient Ones...(Insert whatever they said here)"so,my point is,Nephalem or Nephilim? --203.120.68.75 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

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