Talk:Natural History of South Asia mailing list

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Hi Everybody. I have started this article, everybody is welcome to contribute and make it better. Atulsnischal 05:52, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Note: I have removed some talk sections here that aren't necessary for various reasons. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-07 10:46Z

I have rewritten the article and properly sourced it, and a new section on the earthquake-predicting meme. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-07 10:46Z

Contents

[edit] Thanks Quarl for your work on Natural History of South Asia mailing list, I really appriciate it

This is the most important list on the subject in India, members include members from all top NGOs in Conservation of the region (Including WWF-India, WTI: Wildlife Trust of India, WPSI: Wildlife Protection Society of India, BNHS: Bombay Natural History Society, Kalpvariksh etc. etc. etc., conservation institutions, wildlife researchers, foresters and nature lovers alike, it has many members from top International Conservation NGOs and Institutions like the IUCN.

Its is a much needed and appreciated new media thing networking professionals, NGOs and nature lovers alike, its reputability has grown from word of mouth and personal recommendations, even though many wildlife / conservation journalist are members of the list, it seems they still have to figure out it makes a valuable subject in itself to write about.

I just wanted to remind you Quarl, please improve (You have already made it great) the article such that all internet searchable "keywords" / "alternative names" of the list become a part of the body of the article so that when people go searching for this list on the world wide web and on Google etc. Wikipedia article comes out high in the internet search engines.

Thanks again for your help

Atulsnischal 03:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please RESTORE & DO NOT DELETE this Article

This article is about something more then a mailing list, it is often referred to as the "NATURAL HISTORY NETWORK" of India or South Asia, it also serves as WILDERNESS TELEGRAM SYSTEM of sorts, the subject of this article has become an NGO in itself helping its members many of whom are grassroots workers in the fields of Nature & Wildlife Conservation, students, scientists, prominent members of other NGOs, many "News Makers" in these field report directly to the NETWORK, simultaneously or before commercial news channels report on the matter, discoveries, poaching, habitat encroachments, proposed government protected area notifications and the unfortunate de-notifications, illegal wildlife trade observed, wildlife trade seizures, Endangered Tiger & Panther etc. etc. bone and skin seizures, proposed government policy changes affecting the environment before they come into effect, proposed dams which will submerge large chunks of the last remaining pristine forests etc are just a few things reported and debated by this NETWORK many a times bringing corrective action in time. This is a list dealing with issues faced by Indian Naturalists, conservationists, and NGOs who network on it thankfully, including members of related Government institutions, IT CAN ONLY BE COMPARED WITH OTHER LISTS OF THE REGION dealing with similar issues and it stands head and shoulders above the rest, most of the top people in the field in the region are subscribers or know of its reputability. It is a notable achievement in India in its field, please understand that before taking the argument around the world comparing ORANGES with APPLES i.e. with just other sundry mailing lists.

Thankyou

Atulsnischal 00:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additional Text for possible inclusion to this Article

This is a list that has been dealing largely with issues faced by Indian naturalists, conservationists, and NGOs who network on it, including members of related Government Institutions. Having evolved into something much more then a mailing list since its inception, it is often referred to as the “Natural History Network” of India or South Asia, it also serves as Wilderness Telegram System of sorts. It has practically become an NGO in itself helping its members communicate and network with each other many of whom are grassroots workers in the field of Nature & Wildlife Conservation, students, scientists, prominent members of other NGOs. Many "News Makers" in these fields report directly to this “Natural History Network”, simultaneously or before commercial news channels report on the matter. Discoveries, poaching, habitat encroachments, proposed government protected area notifications and the unfortunate de-notifications, illegal wildlife trade observed, wildlife trade seizures, endangered species bone and skin seizures like that of Tigers, Panthers etc., proposed government policy changes affecting the environment before they come into effect, proposed dams which will submerge large chunks of the last remaining pristine forests, updates on litigation against alleged offenders in these fields, petitions that can be signed for protests against environmental problems etc are just a few things reported and debated by this Network many a times bringing corrective action in time.

  • References for above information can also be found from searching within NatHistory-India List Archives in the emails sent by its members which many a times mention their respective association with projects, institutions and NGOs.

Atulsnischal 04:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additional References


Atulsnischal 12:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] This article is about something more then a mailing list, it is often referred to as the "NATURAL HISTORY NETWORK" of India or South Asia

  • RESTORE / DO NOT DELETE / KEEP: This article is about something more then a mailing list, it is often referred to as the "NATURAL HISTORY NETWORK" of India or South Asia, it also serves as WILDERNESS TELEGRAM SYSTEM of sorts, the subject of this article has become an NGO in itself helping its members many of whom are grassroots workers in the fields of Nature & Wildlife Conservation, students, scientists, prominent members of other NGOs, many "News Makers" in these field report directly to the NETWORK, simultaneously or before commercial news channels report on the matter, discoveries, poaching, habitat encroachments, proposed government protected area notifications and the unfortunate de-notifications, illegal wildlife trade observed, wildlife trade seizures, Endangered Tiger & Panther etc. etc. bone and skin seizures, proposed government policy changes affecting the environment before they come into effect, proposed dams which will submerge large chunks of the last remaining pristine forests etc are just a few things reported and debated by this NETWORK many a times bringing corrective action in time. This is a list dealing with issues faced by Indian Naturalists, conservationists, and NGOs who network on it thankfully, including members of related Government institutions, IT CAN ONLY BE COMPARED WITH OTHER LISTS OF THE REGION dealing with similar issues and it stands head and shoulders above the rest, most of the top people in the field in the region are subscribers or know of its reputability. It is a notable achievement in India in its field, please understand that before taking the argument around the world comparing ORANGES with APPLES i.e. with just other sundry mailing lists. Thankyou Atulsnischal 00:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Natural History of South Asia mailing list

Hi Marcus334, Thanks for your work on the article.

Discussion has been moderated for many years it seems, it currently is too, the reference page is very old, it still states that discussion in un-moderated, not true. Here is the sample acknowledgment:

Forwarded Message ----

From: Princeton University LISTSERV Server (15.0) <listserv@Princeton.EDU> To: Atul Singh Nischal <atulsinghnischal@YAHOO.COM> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 8:20:36 PM Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:20:31...")

Your message dated Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:20:31 -0700 (PDT) with subject "18 March 2007 - Asiatic Lion News - 2 more Asiatic lion cubs found dead, drowned in an open well" has been submitted to the moderator of the nathistory-india list: Vivek Tiwari <spiderhunters@YAHOO.COM>.

Atulsnischal 20:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Natural History of South Asia mailing list, this Wikipedia Article passed the DELETION DEBATE

This Conservation and India & South Asia related Wikipedia Article had been nominated for deletion as some felt this Natural History of South Asia mailing list / "Natural History Network" is not notable enough to deserve an article on Wikipedia, to the contrary Wikipedia did not find any reason to delete this article and Restored it. For those interested and for a general record, provided here are the links to the deletion debates which this article passed:

Thanks Atulsnischal 06:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Your first claim is incorrect. The 2nd AFD resulted in No consensus, not in favor of keeping the article. --Ragib 07:04, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Your latest claims (which you are confusingly posting to the top of the list) is also incorrect. An article passes AfD if it does not reach a consensus to "delete". An article passes DRV if a keep result is endorsed. It was not endorsed, as the result has been to relist. A more accurate description is:
  1. AfD number 1. Result is to delete, as no evidence of notability is presented.
  2. DRV number 1. Result is not to endorse the AfD and relist.
  3. AfD number 2. Result is keep, as the article is well-referenced. This later turns out to be based on false pretenses.
  4. DRV number 2. Result is not to endorse the AfD and relist.
  5. AfD number 3. Currently in progress.
That better? Chris cheese whine 03:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Cool Beans, you guys know rules better, I suppose Atulsnischal 04:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gutting the article

On the material I removed:

Since these all fall foul of our policies and guidelines, I'd ask that they are not reinserted. Chris cheese whine 12:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

This is exactly why the article should have been deleted in the AFD. However, bogus and fake "references" misled many wikipedians (not to mention an aggressive canvassing campaign) into voting for keep, resulting in the deadlocked no-consensus AFD. I endorse the removal of fake information. --Ragib 16:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't think the the information is fake but it does fail with respect to notability. The sources are so trivial that it is impossible to garner anything useful about this list. David D. (Talk) 18:18, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Look at this reference: "[2] Department of Entomology, American Museum of Natural History, New York, USA". This actually points to this, which (144.16.65.194) is a server in India, and NOT the "American Museum of Natural History" in New York. --Ragib 21:15, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh dear, i see what you mean. I thought he was refering top a site similar to this. David D. (Talk) 21:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Undent. Major institutions that maintain lists of links actually do maintain them. I was responsible for one back in pre-WP days, and I took it as seriously as any other editing. Each one was verified every 6 months or so, and list from other places were matched to see what they had--& if anything useless was on our list, people told me. (Eventually we stopped and just linked to a list of a place doing a particularly good one--such as the American Museum of Natural History). That such places include this list means something. No good place wants to have an indiscriminate list, any more than WP does. I'm not going to revert, but this needs some discussionDGG 06:19, 24 March 2007 (UTC).
Well, apart from the fact that it's a subjective comment (how do we know a trivial mention is significant?), the comments above were about misleading, and dubious references (claim of "citation" while all we could see were trivial mentions, less than or equal to a single line)(fake citation to American Museum of Natural History). --Ragib 06:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps DGG would like to suggest how appearing on a general link list confers notability? Chris cheese whine 11:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I did a few paragraphs up. and the argument has not changed. The mere listing of it is an endorsement. Particularly a major world-famous museum includes listings only for notable sites; it does not list indiscriminately. DGG 04:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
As you may have noticed, the AMNH reference turned out to be unreliable. Chris cheese whine 04:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Atulsnischal 04:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

It's missing vital information which would verify its authenticity, thus it is unreliable. Chris cheese whine 04:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
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