Talk:Nataliya Dmytruk

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Contents 1 Term Deaf 2 Category dispute 3 Popped by from RfC 4 Direct quotes

[edit] Term Deaf

It is FACT that the term "deaf-mute" some users tend to use in wikipedia, is an offensive term for us in our world. We have language and culture. Have you ever considered someone as "hearing-mute" in your world, huh? Do you know what is the synonym of deaf-mute? It is "deaf-and-dumb", which is pretty self-explanatory. We will be very appreciative if you refrain from using that term from now on. Please use "Deaf" with D as capital letter instead to describe or to refer us.

It will make us proud and it will give the idea that it is nothing wrong with being Deaf. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.209.97.34 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Category dispute

These comments in edit history summarize the dispute about correctly categorizing the article. Is it right to call her a journalist?:

• 19:22, April 1, 2006 Irpen (I don't think it's right to call her a journalist, or is it?)
• 12:27, April 3, 2006 Yakudza (+ cat (Speaker and translator also is journalists) + link and info)
• 20:43, April 3, 2006 Irpen (according to my dictionary, the sign language interpreters are not called "journalists")
• 21:35, April 3, 2006 Yakudza (She given Award as journalist . The Dictionary can be incomplete...)
• 06:02, April 4, 2006 Irpen (journalist is someone doing Jornalism. reading texts written by others, isn't journalism. She got an award for courage and bravery, not for journalism work)
• 08:39, April 4, 2006 Yakudza (+cat, see also Journalist, than differs page designer or TV-speeker from translator for the Deaf, journalist - is not only reporter)

According to Merriam-Webster Dictionary, a journalist is "1 a : a person engaged in journalism; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b : a writer who aims at a mass audience". According to the same dictionary, Journalism is (I kept on applicable definitions):

• 1 a : the collection and editing of news for presentation through the media b : the public press
• 2 a : writing designed for publication in a newspaper or magazine b : writing characterized by a direct presentation of facts or description of events without an attempt at interpretation c : writing designed to appeal to current popular taste or public interest

It seems to me that the definition doesn't include the occupation of Nataliya Dmytruk, which seems more like an announcer or an interpreter.

I created, what seemed to me a more fitting Category:Ukrainian television personalities but user:Yakudza insists on using Category:Ukrainian journalists. I would appreciate more outside opinions on the matter, perhaps from the native speakers. --Irpen 20:04, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

All News_presenter#Notable_news_presenters (news anchors), which I have examined, they are found in categories journalists. Also she was named Journalists Who Risked Jail, Lives when Awarding. --Yakudza 21:29, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

The notable difference with News anchors is that the latter provide facts and discuss them on their own. Natalia Dmytruk simply translates what others say to a sign language word for word. It just doesn't seem to me as a journalism, but I maybe wrong and I am asking for opinions. Her daring to say publicly about the election fraud was a courageous act very much deserving an award. But IMO this, by itself, doesn't make her a journalist. I just want to sort this out wight. In no way I want to diminish her action to expose an election fraud to the public. But, say, a government official whistleblower also exposes fraud. It doesn't turn them all into journalists. N.D. still works on television and is now much well-known and no one doubts that she fits into Category:Ukrainian television personalities. The comments on whether the Category:Ukrainian journalists also fits here would be appreciated. --Irpen 22:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I am a journalist, a copy editor at a newspaper. And a translator or interpreter is not a journalist. Maurreen 08:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

But News_presenter - a journalist? Usually, he only reads someone written text.--Yakudza 08:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The difference with News presenters, who provide their own commentary to the news, is explained above. In view of our disagreement with Yakudza I posted a request for a 3rd opinion at WP:3O which brought an uninvolved editor to judge the matter. As per this, I am removing the non-applicable cat. If Yakudza is still not satisfied, we can bring it to a wider discussion at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/All#Media, art and literature. --Irpen 23:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Not all news presenters provide their own commentary to the news. Natalya Dmytruk such either as they news presenters, but for deaf. I persist on its opinion. Let's consider in RfC. Your category unpopular, so in her no nor one american television journalist. --Yakudza 23:41, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Most news anchors don't read the text completely written by others. Those who just read, are announcers and not journalists. Fine, I will list this for an RfC. --Irpen 23:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Давайте спросим у нескольких носителей английского языка (или русского, не думаю, что есть разница), если все скажут, что дикторы не журналисты, я не буду упорствовать. Но я полагаю, что дикторы, считаются журналистами. --Yakudza 23:55, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Translation: Let's ask several English native speakers (or Russian, I don't think there is any difference here) and if all state that announcers are not journalists, I will not persist. But I think that anouncers are journalists (this is the translation of an entry above by Yakudza from Russian by Irpen)

I did just that at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Media, art and literature. I did that earlier at WP:3O and my request brought Maurreen but since you are not satisfied, I posted a request to a wider audience. --Irpen 00:07, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

• In my opinion, someone who is only contributing a translation is not a journalist. If she were a news presenter in sign language, it would be one thing. But it sounds like she's just translating the broadcast into sign language (a very important task, but not the same as journalism). Mak (talk) 21:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
• I don't think a newspresenter automaticly becomes a journalist. According to our article on journalists it states that a journalist is one that practices "the gathering and dissemination of information". She's one brave woman though. Eivind^t@c 07:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
  • No doubt that she is one brave woman and in no way my disagreement with the cat was meant to undermine it. Thanks all who commented! --Irpen 18:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Popped by from RfC

I don't quite see where the confusion lies. I am a translator (honest!). I am, at the moment, translating a document prepared by a professional engineer regarding a housing project. That doesn't make me an engineer; it doesn't even make me an author. I'm just a translator. --MattShepherd 20:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Direct quotes

This article contains two direct quotes:

• "Everything you have heard so far is a lie. Yushchenko is our true president."
• "Everything you have heard so far is a lie. Yushchenko is our true president... I am very ashamed to translate these lies,.. and this is probably my last day in this job, so goodbye."

When quoting a source directly, reference must be made to that source (WP:V). None of the five sources listed at the bottom of the page contain this quote. If the quote cannot be sourced, it could be replaced with other material that the sources contain.

The obligation to provide a reliable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it.--Oden 00:27, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

If you have trouble with just these two citations, just stick a {{fact}} template next to those. There is no point into tagging the whole article. For more details, see Wikipedia:Citing sources. -- Grafikm ^(AutoGRAF) 00:55, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

All three quotations have been fixed, also did a copyedit and wikified a bit, removed a unsourced statement and replaced it with a sourced statement of equal effect, fixed multiple references, added language icons and found two new sources. --Oden 14:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! It is much better now Alex Bakharev 22:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC)