Talk:Nahuatl dialects

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Redid list(s) of dialects.

I updated the names and codes to conform to the ISO 639-3 standard, reordered alphabetically, and (I hope) made the list more usable. Where SIL-MX has a subsite on a particular variant, I included the link. On the second list I only updated the names and codes: I did not adjust population figures or ordering.

Just to make things clear, I am David Tuggy and had a part in most of what is on the SIL-MX site (as well as a tiny bit of input in years gone by into what appears in the Ethnologue and has become part of the ISO standard.) I suppose that these links may therefore be seen as tainted with self-advertising. All the SIL-MX material has gone through a thorough review process by SIL-MX, so is "peer-reviewed" (in some sense—it's not as independent as a journal article's review). I think the links will be helpful to readers, which is why I have included them: most of these subsites have general information and links to publications in and about the particular variants. If anyone disagrees, or thinks the information should be packaged differently, and wants to discuss it here, that would be useful. --Lavintzin 16:48, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

I must admit that I don't see why the SIL lists need to be on the site. It is easy enough to search for a dialect by georgraphical area on the Etnologue page instead. Also I don't hink any non-SIL linguists use them for anything.--Someoneelse 22:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're saying here, Magnus. What SIL lists are you referring to? The Ethnologue /ISO lists? (Ethnologue is an SIL publication, but it and SIL-Mexico are completely independent of each other. ISO is independent of both though it has adopted many of the Ethnologue's judgments and codes, and the Ethnologue is now, I understand, in conformity with the ISO.)

Do you mean why link to SIL-Mexico sites when those are available? My answer would be that you will find information there on the particular variants that you will not find, or not find so handily, anywhere else. I'm not sure what you think non-SIL linguists don't use for anything. Apparently you don't mean the Ethnologue. If you mean the SIL-MX subsites on different variants, usage statistics and anecdotal evidence make it pretty clear to me that many do use them, presumably with profit.--Lavintzin 03:15, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I didnt make myself clear. I mean the ISO codes in the long box to the left on the "nahuatl languages" page. I was bringing the discussion from tha nahuatl page over here. IO dont know why its necessarry to have a long list of isocodes. I was thinking that maybe if we need to link to pages for particular variants we should link to the main Ethnologue page of nahuatl variants, such as you have done here that is more useful. But I don't see how the ISO codes are encyclopedic. I being a non-sil linguist have no idea how or why to use the ISO codes, if I wanted to use the information on the Ethnologue SIL-MEX sites I would go to the sites and check their bibliographies, something that is easily done without the codes. Truth be told I find the long list of ISO codes and Ethnologue calssified variants confusing rather than informative and I would find t more useful to have a single link to all the SIL and ethnologue information. And instead inlcude here an overview of dialect groups That is: I have an idea for reworking the dialects page. I would like to present the dialects as dialect areas describing some of the traits typical for each group. Maybe the links to SIL-MEX could be put inside the text when describing an area. What do you think, Lavintzin?--Someoneelse 20:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, if you're saying the list of ISO codes in the infobox on the Nahuatl language (singular) page is unnecessary to the point of being unhelpful, I heartily agree. I think it should be replaced by a link (similarly prominently placed in the infobox) to the Nahuatl dialects page.

An overview of dialect groupings on this page (the Nahuatl dialects page) would be excellent, though of course how you group things depends a lot on the isoglosses you choose to emphasize. The ISO code list, Ethnologue, and SIL-MX website don't help any there. So I would say you should follow somebody's standard grouping (Lastra's, Çanger's, etc.), and reference them, and fit at least some of what's currently on the page into that framework.

I think having the whole ISO list together in one place in this article is still a good idea, however. For good or ill it is a kind of recognized world standard, and should be clearly referenced. --Lavintzin 04:18, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

PS: Is this Magnus I'm talking to? The system keeps saying so, but I'm not sure.

Yes I am Magnus. I realized that I did't like using my real name on wikipedia and as I couldnt change the username I just changed the signature. I will begin to work something out for this page shortly. --Someoneelse 18:12, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite 21 July 06

I moved stuff around quite a bit and added quite a bit more, mostly along lines discussed (mostly between Maunus and me) on the Nahuatl Language talk page. Feel free to comment/fix up.

It strikes me that a good idea would be identify for the ISO codes, insofar as possible, the place in Lastra’s classification they would fit. I *might* do this *sometime*, but if someone else would like to scoop me on it, I would be most pleased.

--Lavintzin 05:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)