Talk:Mustafa Sandal

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[edit] Vandalism of Turkish Music Pages

Some persons are trying to falsely promote Arabic culture by vandalising Turkish music pages, of artists such as Tarkan, Sezen Aksu, Sertab and Mustafa Sandal by trying to create a whole new category of music in Turkish when no musicologist or encyclopedia verifies this - namely the "category" Arabesque-pop music. Please check the history - I have tried to fix it but the culprit still keeps reverting. He also tries to place Turksh pop performers as part of this fake genre. Arabesque music with pop influence is called Arabsque-fantazi (Fantasy) and none of the pop musicians named above are categorised in the fanatsy genre of Arabesque music. 82.145.231.188 14:27, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Documents for the sales/charts information

international singles:

domestic albums:

domestic maxi-singles:

that he won a Gold Record:

but you must be logged in to be able to read the article. Therefore I made a snapshot for you and marked the relevant part red: http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6907/musikmarktonline3uz.jpg

You can also find the similar news on

Mustionline 14:34, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions

I didn't edit five paragraphs in the middle of the article because in my opinion it needs referencing, but I think that fans may object so I just give suggestions:

The Detay album (as far as I know) did not do well, though the "Aya Benzer" song did. One way to understand success is through the videos filmed for the album and there weren't many - and as far as I can remember the albums he released through the bankrupt Prestij Music company were flops (in terms of sales not talent). This were two albums - Detay and Akisina Birak. Although the Turkish cover versions of Greek songs was liked on Akisina and even though it came with a big promotion (special box and goodies) - they did not perform well - or not as well as his first two massive hits with the Ozer music company. So to be honest, as I can't agree or find any source to back up the sales put on the page - I can't edit some of the sections out of honesty. If any sources can be shown to me I will accept and edit in good faith.

After he moved to Erol Kose company everything changed for the better. When Mustafa Sandal brought out Kop and arguably dipped a little into the arabesque genre, he became popular again - so I can't believe that the sales of the Detay album would defeat this album.

The article also gives the view that his Araba song "did very nicely" - what does that mean? It could be rephrased.

After his massive hit "Isyankar" he again was disappointed with his latest album and the single sales accurately reflect this - so that's okay.

Plus Mustionline's research showed me that the Isyankar single stayed in the charts for 6 not 4 months - so I changed that, too.

In a proper objective article these should be mentioned - even if only briefly in my opinion.

Finally, to keep things smooth maybe it is good idea to put English translations in brackets of all his albums this is done in some - or take out all?

For a credible article these need to be thought about. Deff6 20:08, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

You are right in general.
His 3rd and 4rd albums wasn't as successfull as his former albums. But the sales wasn't still so bad as you have mentioned. You can't find accurately sales for the albums on the internet (especially not of 90s), because the album sales in Turkey hasn't been registrated as painstakingly in other European countries, so this had been one of the problems of Turkish Music Market. So, if there isn't any better references, we should believe other statements. For example, on his official websites www.msandal.de and www.mustinet.net, you can find some figures of the sales. But I'm sure, that his 3rd album was selling over 1 Million copies and his 4rd album was selling over 500,000 copies. Mustafa Sandal also accepts that his 3rd album "Detay" hadn't even satisfied him (he gave a lot of interviews about that). But he seems to be happy with his 4rd album "Akisina Birak". The biggest reason that he couldn't reached the success of his former albums was the company PRESTIJ MÜZIK, which many TV channels (including music channel KRAL TV) didn't publicate the video clips of its artists. So you aren't so right with the "promotion" of his 4rd album. There was nearly no promotion, except his love with the Greek singer Natalia :-)
After his hesitation about 2 - 3 years, he had became in 2002 very popular again, his album got the 2nd place on the year-end charts. So this was a big success for him (he also became a Kral Award as "best pop singer of the year" and two MGD awards also as "best pop singer" and "best star website"). Certainly he dipped a little into the arabesque genre (or his music style was a little bit influenced by this genre), but this was not the biggest factor of his success. He got also a new image and this had risen his fans. With his single "Isyankar", he changed his music style again or he returned to his originally music style (Turkish Pop). At that time, many critics said that "Isyankar" was almost reached the success of "Araba 1996"...
Shortly, if you are be able to summarize the whole in a very objectivo tone (without criticizing), this were genial. Mustionline 14:34, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Well to be honest I don't know if I should do it, because fanatics might come and just revert it - it really isn't an issue for me. But if YOU really want a credible page, then you should be truthful. As I say if there are no album sales then just don't put them, put N/A instead - for example. But it is a fact that (as Ali Yildirim explains, too - I think objectively) the period of Prestij Music was a down period for Mustafa Sandal. But isn't this normal? Every singer has highs and lows. It is no crticism to reflect this. We have a "setbacks" section on Tarkan's page - because you have to reflect as best as you can verifiable and honest information.

When I said promotion I meant the packaging to persuade people to buy - it came out in a special box with goodies and STILL did not sell well. As you say Mustafa Sandal's bad sales cane be attributed to Prestij maybe more than himself.

I didn't mention exact sales - but you can check sales at Mü-YAP's archives (Turkish Phonographic Industry) and in the release years of these albums Mustafa Sandal does not make an appearance.

You say yourself that "But I'm sure, that his 3rd album was selling over 1 Million copies and his 4rd album was selling over 500,000 copies." Well on the page at the moment you've got one at 1 million and one at 1,5 million! Big difference.

And to suggest that Detay outsold Kop is just not true. This just damages the tone and credibility of the article - people won't believe ANYTHING if ONE THING is obviously wrong.

Yes his successes with Kral didn't come with these two - but with KOP after changing music labels and using arabesque a little.

What you write at the end is excellent in my opinion what you write there we should just tidy the English and put that in. Deff6 02:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

What is N/A? I don't know this..
I meant that I think that his 3rd album was MINIMUM sold 1 Mio. copies and the another also MINIMUM 500.000. This was just my personally opinion! But on the other references which isn't available now was given the figures which are mentioned in the text.
I don't know what we are should do now. You are right with your opinion in the first paragraph. Many fans can come and revert it just. I also witnessed that some people who don't like Mustafa Sandal, have cursed him in the article and compared him with Tarkan in negative direction. Mustionline

I added some replies on the Mustafa Sandal talk page. Deff6 02:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

N/A means not applicable or not avaliable - when the information is unknown or unnecessary. I think you opinion is actually about right - though the other way around. I think detay sold about 500.000 but as we cannot verify exact sales - it's no good writing a million for each.

I do remember that attack but if you look at the contribution history it began with a Mustafa Sandal fan attacking the Tarkan page and then this was done in response. Once that person stopped so did the attack on the Sandal page.

If you are suggesting that Tarkan fans will come and change the Sandal page - I don't think that will happen.

It does not put Sandal's fans in a good light does it if they are prepared to keep false information about Sandal on their page - when Tarkan fans have never attacked their own fans page when the truth (setbacks and such) has been put on it.

At least it does read a little better now. Deff6 16:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I looked at the contribution history and saw this article, where Mustafa Sandal was compared with Tarkan! [1] Besides, he was criticized with his length, so this has certainly provoked some Mustafa Sandal fans or just a Mustafa Sandal fan! And this attack of Tarkan fans was certainly made before the reply of Mustafa Sandal fans. It is pity that you want to hide the realities, even though you have read the contribution history. It is a real pity...
Moreover, you shouldn't accuse Mustafa Sandal fans with keeping false information, if you cannot prove it.
So, we can delete the sales information of the both albums, Detay and Akisina Birak. Because there are just estimates but no realy documents. Mustionline 10:03, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry you feel that way. I haven't lied. You are sounding more like a fan - so possibly you are lying. I have always acted in good faith. My actions and my edits on the Sandal page have proved this. I am not lying when I say that the Sandal fans began the edit wars between the two pages. They did. They attacked Tarkan's page AS A DIRECT result of the news that supposedly Sandal's official page was hacked by Tarkan fans. This was proved to be untrue - it was just a different version of his official site name that directed to Tarkan's site. but Sandal fans opened an anti_tarkan site with pictures defacing the star and being rude. As far as I know, no Tarkan fan has created such a site for Sandal. It was this time that a Sandal fan began to attack Tarkan's page and still continues to do so now and again. Check the contributions page yourself. Do you really want me to do it for you and put the proof here?

Secondly, OUR DISCUSSION HERE PROVES THAT YOU ARE KEEPING FALSE INFORMATION on the page - what have we been discussing all this time?

I urge you to stop thinking like a fan if it is going to make you lie and attack someone that has only been trying to help you. Be more objective. Deff6 01:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

This is a different thing what you are telling here. We are talking about the attacks on Vikipedia, not on the other sites! But in spite of Tarkan fans also created an anti Mustafa Sandal site. But it was hacked later. And that Tarkan fans hacked Mustafa Sandal's official web site, this is certainly false. But if you look at this site, you can see that there was a provocation: www.musti.net
Because, MUSTI is the abbreviation of Mustafa Sandal, but if you open this site, there will appear the official site of Tarkan. How will you explain me that? Isn't this a provocation? How will you prove me that this was not made by Tarkan fans?
I am a fan of Mustafa Sandal, I have never denied it! You are a fan of Tarkan. I am trying to be objective but if you accuse me and other fans with lying or to giving false information, I cannot be objective no more! I have never lied, I gave you some references but you don't want to understand it! Therefore I have suggested that we can delete the sales information of both albums, but you haven't even replied that! You continued to accusing Mustafa Sandal fans again!
You must also be more objective, you shouldn't confuse the attacks of some fans with all Mustafa Sandal fans and you also shouldn't confuse it with other things which was NOT happened on VIKIPEDIA!
If you accusing me with lying again, I won't even discuss with you! Because it will be so unnecessary! We must discuss about the article, not about the atacks!
Besides, sorry for my bad English. I hope you have understand me what I want to say. Mustionline 13:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I understand you fine. I think you don't understand me. This conversation began after YOU tried to falsely accuse Tarkan fans of starting the editing wars when this is not true.

Please read what I wrote last carefully. I am not saying a different thing. I am saying the attacks on WIKIPEDIA TARKAN began by a Sandal fan after they MISTAKENLY thought a Tarkan fan had hacked Sandal's site. And I already explained that no one set up an anti-mustafa site. YOU ARE WRONG HERE. All that happened was that another URL name similar to Sandal's official site went to Tarkan's official site. Sandal fans replied by opening an antitarkan site with allegations about Tarkan's private life. Then they came here and attacked Tarkan's page. The response was unbalanced. What provocation? Today on Amazon on every Tarkan page they advertise Sandal trying to sell his albums along with Tarkan's - Mustafa Sandal workers have placed advert keywords on Goodle adsense so everytime Tarkan is typed in Sandal is advertised (I know this as I reseached from technorati) - is this not provocation? If we believe your argument? No of course not. It is just a tactic. NOT A HACK. Normal people should just laugh at that and move on not open sites attacking people for who they sleep with or what they look like.

Yes I am an admirer of Tarkan and still look how I act? Would a Sandal fan do the same?

It is your acts that accuse you - not me. I am just pointing out the truth.

You made false allegations about me and other people which have left me wondering about your good faith. Please stop trying to cover things up. Deff6 23:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Prove it that the attacks on Wikipedia began by a MSandal fan. I don't believe you if you just talk about this and don't show documents.
A Tarkan fan had prepared an Anti Mustafa Sandal site, but some MSandal fans had hacked the site later. So the Tarkan fans are not innocent how do you want to show!
Your statement with PROVOCATION is to laugh. Do you really believe that Mustafa Sandal's workers shall placed Tarkan as an advert keyword on Google or Amazon?! How will you prove it? If you search for Tarkan on Google or Goodle, you will never find a site for Mustafa Sandal. Besides, AMAZON doesn't works with Sandal's workers or anyone else. It's a private company, they sell Tarkan and Mustafa Sandal's CDs sometimes together just because that they are performing the same genre and that they are Turks. Perhaps that they are the most selling Turkish people!!!
And can you tell me who are the other people who you always mention? I can also say that a lot of people don't believe in your good intention, but I don't do this. Because I cannot prove it. Don't talk without knowing.
Moreover, I didn't accused Tarkan fans. I talked about a reality which I have also proved. I can still prove it...
I think, you must also prove something. Talking, pardon ACCUSING is easy after all! Mustionline 14:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


Lying is even easier. I asked you to be truthful to yourself.

Here's proof:

These are the history pages of Sandal and Tarkan contributions made by others. Please check the date June 1 2005 This is the same date as the time the false accusations of a Tarkan fan hacking anything. You are lying. There was no "site" that was anti-sandal. It was just the URL episode. Which was overreacted by Sandal fans in that display of rage and hatred and rudeness.

Also check dates before this - you will see no edits were made to attack Sandal until June 1 2005 when Tarkan's page was attacked.

This Sandal fan began it all by adding copyrighted information about Sandal and going to Tarkan's page and attacking it, first by saying that Tarkan is a faggot Turk. Seeing as the same person that wrote that then went immediately and put favourable (and as we now know false) information on the Sandal page - these seem to be the acts of someone who hates Tarkan and likes Sandal. Who else but a fan would do that? Like your actions now. You forget all the help I give you and you attack. You are ignorant.

More proof of what I say:

Amazon used to use Google for its searches - and Goodle Adsense and 'keywords' are an important part of those searches. Amazon has recently moved to using MSN Windows Live search so these mistakes will no longer be happening. As I say this became apparent at the Technorati page which also uses Adsense and Google searches. I complained about it to them, and they told what I told you. I can send you a copy of their support email. They have now changed it and only adverts that are connected with the subject matter (Tarkan) is shown now.

Don't ever tell me I talk without knowing. Everything I have written so far (and YOU know this as well if you were true to yourself but you just want to try and discredit me so readers don't believe the things I have said about Sandal) proves that I know what I am writing about. Deff6 02:16, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I am truthful to myself but even not you!
Tarkan fans attacked the page of Mustafa Sandal before the attacks on June 1, 2005! It was on January 11, 2005, which I have also proofed it before:
here you can see it
You have understand me false with the anti-sandal site. I mean, there was an anti-sandal site, but this was not www.musti.net! This was another site which was created by Tarkan fans and then some Mustafa Sandal fans had hacked the site later. So I had wanted to say in addition to this that the Tarkan fans are ALSO not innocent and that they can come and revert the article. I don't accept the attacks of the fans (including Tarkan + Sandal fans), they are unsuitable. But to lay the blame on just to Mustafa Sandal fans, I also cannot accept this!
I am not ignorant, I don't tell lies. I blame you with your aggressive behaviours! I've just tried to improve this article, but because of my insufficient English knowledge, I can't express myself enough. Mustionline 14:29, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


This edit that you "show" did not start and editing wars - this is what I am saying - that teh editing wars were begun by a Sandal fan. Second - it proves my point even better - compare the two - Sandal fan says Tarekan is a faggot Turk - what does your "attack" say? However, he has not found the same successes as superstar Tarkan and is often accused by the media of attempting to be like him- in dress and video clip. Recently in the video clip "moonlight" and "all my life" he is featured with models (in particular, Turkish Miss World 2002 Azra Akin) that are much taller than him, in an attempt to exemplify his presence. Can you see the difference?

Thirdly you LIE. There was no site violation other than that URL. YOU ARE MAKING THIS UP JUST TO LİE AND SHOW YOURSELF AS RIGHT. I was around at the time - I know how it was reported. What you are saying never happened. From the first - the hacking was that URL and nothing else - just fanatic Sandal fans went extreme - LIKE IN THE COMPARISION YOU HELPED ME SHOW JUST NOW.

I am not saying that it is only Sandal fans fault - I AM SAYING THEY STARTED THE EDITING WARS YOU WERE FIRST TALKING ABOUT and wrongly blamed the Tarkan fans. YOU STARTED THIS DISCUSSION.

I MEAN WHAT TYPE OF PERSON ARE YOU? You know the sales information is false on the Sandal page and you keep it there. You don't care - as long as you get a false version of Sandal - as long as it is positive you don't care. That isn't being truthful or objective.

I mean if you think that calling someone a faggot Turk is similar to However, he has not found the same successes as superstar Tarkan and is often accused by the media of attempting to be like him- in dress and video clip. Recently in the video clip "moonlight" and "all my life" he is featured with models (in particular, Turkish Miss World 2002 Azra Akin) that are much taller than him, in an attempt to exemplify his presence then it is obvious you're not objective.

There is nothing wrong with your English. There is only something wrong with your view of the truth. Deff6 00:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

It's still the same old story what you are telling here.
I don't tell lies! But you don't want to understand my comments. I don't make this up just to lie and show myself as right, I don't need it!!! There was an anti-sandal site, I know it because this was notified on Mustafa Sandal's official website forum! If you don't believe it it's your problem. But this is the reality. If the person who hacked this site will get in touch with me, then can he comes here and explain the facts!
Besides, I have not said that the information are false on the MSandal page. I've just said my personally opinion! But my thought is less important here. The official figures are more important and on Sandal's page was given these figures. If they aren't suites you, you can delete it. I suggested that we can also delete this but you have accused me all the time. Instead to work with the article you have selected this way. I think that you do this intentional now! I can't believe in your good faith no more!
However, he has not found the same successes as superstar Tarkan and is often accused by the media of attempting to be like him- in dress and video clip. Recently in the video clip "moonlight" and "all my life" he is featured with models (in particular, Turkish Miss World 2002 Azra Akin) that are much taller than him, in an attempt to exemplify his presence.
Besides, what would you think if you saw the same comment with comparing and cursing to his length and some else on Tarkan page? Wasn't the article provocative? If you say NOT, then I will be sure that you are telling lies.
You say that Sandal fans had started attacking but the comments on Mustafa Sandal page was certainly provocative! To be able to start an attack, there must be an element which encourages the people to do the disrespectfully actions. And this was firstly made by the media which had reported that Mustafa Sandal's site was hacked - but this wasn't true - and on Wikipedia this was surely made by the non-objective and provocative comments on the Mustafa Sandal page. To tell the truth, it is less important who started the attacking. It is more important to be objective. And therefore I have blamed the attacks of two sides in my last comment.
But you failed by this way. Mustionline 13:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

It's obvious you live in a dream world. And if you are the type of person that is going to see some written in January on a Sandal page to the ATTACK that happened in June - exactly six months later then how is this provocation? I'm sorry but I am stopping this discussion with you. You have proved what you are. Ignorant, thankless and blind. I don't continue communication with people that are so blind they can't see the difference bewteen calling someone a faggot Turk and the statement you quote above. Finally, what appears on a Sandal forum is not verifiable or necessarily teh truth. Fans and those that report it (as I have said all the way through this argument) MISUNDERSTTOD AND MISTAKENLY BELIEVED THERE TO BE A HACK WHEN THERE WAS NONE - but there response was like hooligans. Opening up an anti-Tarkan site and slurring his name. These things ALL HAPPENED.

You not wanting to believe them doesn't make them anymore less the truth.

Finally I am not Turkish, but I came to Turkish culture and it music through tarkan. But it is people like you that make me regret that. Think about it. As Tarkan is good promotion for your culutre - you and people like you are bad. Deff6 00:10, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

That you bring forward that I am a bad example for my culture, is just to laugh. We don't talk about the cultures, we talk about a person who is singer (the culture/race is never the most important of artists!). Don't try to exploit my feeling.
I have never denied the happenings such as attacking or hacking or anything else. Don't distort the truth! I don't want to list my thoughts again, because I was open enough with my comments. I can also accuse you with to be thankless or to be blind but I don't do this. Because these are insults which just the inability people can use. So if I think in your point of view, you will be also a bad promotion for your culture in my eyes!
As a matter of fact, I have tried to close the discussion with a compromise which I mentioned that two sides are in the wrong but you have continued to accusing Mustafa Sandal fans again.
So, that is our difference!
It was already unnecessary to discussing with a person like you. Wish you in spite of a good life! Mustionline 14:06, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
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