Talk:Musket

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Contents 1 14th century? 2 Review of this article 3 Italy - the first designers of the Musket? 4 "packed in a paper cartridge" 5 Arquebus Are Muskets? 6 Moral objection to rifles? 7 Just shoot me? 8 Outside Europe 9 Obsolescence and replacement by the rifle 10 Battle Of Nagashino

[edit] 14th century?

Where does that date come from? All the references I have seen say 16th century. --Brunnock 15:12, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

Wondering the same. Earlier ones must have been arquebuses, confused with muskets. 85.157.2.152 11:13, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

I changed it to 15th century, because the earliest date for a musket I can remember is 1502 and it is possible there were earlier muskets I assume the writer mistook the late 1400s for late 14th century. 82.135.92.153 16:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Review of this article

This article has been reviewed - not very favorably - by comparing it against the corresponding World Book article here ("Wikiwatch"). regards, High on a tree 23:51, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

It's been improved a lot since then however Jdorney 18:16, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I must disagree with this statement: "alibers ranged from .50 to .75 inches (Numbers. [-1])" - a -1 is a "useless" fact. I don't believe this is useless. I also don't find the following "useless" - " a user is called a "musketman"/"musketeer". (Obvious. [-1])" It may not be obvious to some. Some may think that calling one a musketman is inaccurate, which is not the case.

The critic also states that "As bullets, muskets used spherical lead balls packed in a paper cartridge which also held the Gunpowder propellant. The balls, slightly smaller than the bore, came wrapped in a loosely-fitting paper patch which formed the upper part of the cartridge." is redundant. Hardly. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italy - the first designers of the Musket?

According to this site:

The value of breech-loading is the time saved in inserting the cartridge into the breech (the back end of the barrel) rather than down the muzzle. Experiments in this direction go back to the 17th century, when a breech-loading musket is produced in Italy (possibly invented in Florence by Michele Lorenzoni). Practical versions are later developed in Britain by Patrick Ferguson (in 1776) and in the United States by John Hall (in 1811).

Can anyone confirm this? - Ta bu shi da yu 03:16, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "packed in a paper cartridge"

According to WikiWatch (see above), the sentence "packed in a paper cartridge" is somewhat misleading as "only later ones were". Is this correct? If so, can we get it corrected? - Ta bu shi da yu 03:27, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

The paper cartridge was introduced after about 1650 - Source Jeremy Black, European Warfare 1660-1815 (Routledge 1994) page 39. It's introduction co-incided with the replacement of hte matchlock by the flintlock. Jdorney 17:48, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arquebus Are Muskets?

As far as I have read Arquebus are not muskets but a earlier gun of their own. So I might change this. Zachorious 10:07, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moral objection to rifles?

"At the time of the American Revolution, many British soldiers were outraged by the American colonist's use of rifles. They believed that since the Brown Bess musket had no sights, they were not responsible for the deaths of enemy soldiers. But riflemen, who selected a target and fixed the enemy soldier or officer in their sights were no better than murderers."

I had never heard of this objection or outrage. Have you a source?

I heard a lot about the rifles and muskets in the revolution but I have never heard about this. Did someone just make this up or is there a source? Bunker fox 20:06, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just shoot me?

I rewrote this:

"A musket is a muzzle-loaded, smoothbore long gun, which its user generally fires from the shoulder. The date of the origin of muskets remains unknown, but they are mentioned as early as the late 15th century, and they were primarily designed for use by infantry. Muskets became obsolete by the middle of the 19th century, as cartridge breechloading repeaters superseded them. Typical musket calibres ranged from .50 to .80 inches. Depending on the type and calibre, it could hit a man's torso at up to 200 yards, though it was only reliably accurate to about 100 yards. A soldier primarily armed with a musket had the designation of a musketman or of a musketeer."

I've already changed rifle to "cartridge breechloading repeaters", because I added this:

"Improved with the introduction of rifling around 1800, muzzleloading rifled muskets (of the kind common in the American Civil War) became obsolete by the late 19th century"

and this:

"the rifle musket, common on both sides in the U.S. Civil War, was accurate at twice that, and could easily kill a man at over a kilometer."

(To that, I'd add it could do the job through 10cm of pine, but I wasn't sure that much detail was really necessary.)

I also rewrote this:

"Gustavus Adolphus pioneered the use of the volley or "salvo" as an offensive tactic for Swedish infantry in the Thirty Years' War."

to this:

"Gustav II made two important changes. First, he simplifed and standardized reloading, then drilled his musketeers ceaslessly until they reload in action by reflex, without becoming distracted. (Recall the scene in the film "Glory".) Second, he pioneered the use of the volley or "salvo" as an offensive tactic for Swedish infantry in the Thirty Years' War."

I rely on Dyer's War & Dupuy's Evolution of Weapons & Warfare. Trekphiler 01:18 & 01:32, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Outside Europe

Actually musket-type guns were available to many non-Europeans in the Middle East and Asia as early as 1500s. It was the Middle Easterners that introduced firearms to Europe. The Mughals introduced musket-type firearms to India during their invasion nearly 500 years ago. The Ming had musket-type firearms as well. We need to correct this. Zachorious 20:34, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Obsolescence and replacement by the rifle

"The disadvantage of the early rifle for military use was its long reloading time and the tendency of rifling to get damaged when reloaded hurriedly."

Over the life of a rifle, wear of the rifling would have degraded accuracy. However, during the course of battle the real problem was that powder fouling would accumulate in the rifling making the piece harder to load with each shot, until finally the weapon couldn't be loaded anymore until the bore was wiped clean. I have made an edit to reflect this. Jmueller71 16:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Battle Of Nagashino

I always thought that the Oda army used arquebuses instead of muskets? Is that right or wrong? All the sources I read (and I can't remember the names of the books so don't ask) stated that they used arquebuses. It would be good if someone could help sought this out

Bunker fox 20:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)