Talk:Music of ancient Greece
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This article is part of the "World music" set of articles nominated for Version 0.7. Discuss this nomination, or see the set nominations page for more details. |
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Music of ancient Greece was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision if you feel there was a mistake.
Date of review: 18 November 2006 |
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This page is part of Wikipedia:WikiProject World music, an attempt at building a resource on the music of all the peoples and places of the world. Please visit the project's listing to see the article's assessment and to help us improve the article as we push to 1.0. |
| B | Music of ancient Greece has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale. |
| Mid | Music of ancient Greece has been rated as Mid-Importance on the assessment scale. |
I have started to expand this article as requested. I cut the bit of text that was here already and wrote a new lead plus part of a section. The other sections are in outline form with "(in progress)" to indicate that I am working on it. I put in a bibliography section that will serve for refs and notes and futher reading. I left the original references at the bottom since they may serve for the article later on. All help is welcome. Jeffmatt 07:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] removed expand tag
I expanded the original item, added a few trial photos, and have started referencing and notes. It is a long way from finished, but is, I think, no longer rudimentary, and possibly useful to readers even as is; thus, I took off the tag. I have also left "in progress" notes at various points in the text. Jeffmatt 16:09, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] added footer
I added a "ancient music" footer at the end as opposed to a musicbox at the top. Trying to make these "Ancient music" items into a series. Jeffmatt 14:22, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Musicological quibble
Although there is a reasonable consensus among musicologists that "there is no evidence that the sequence of notes in any given scale "naturally" corresponds to a particular emotion or characteristic of personality" it is still not one that would be considered as universally excepted. Although I shall not edit I'd recommend either changing "no evidence" into "no strong evidence" or at least referencing someone who conforms the claim. 220.240.54.185 13:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
- Sounds reasonable, I've changed it. Tuf-Kat 17:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
- accepted, not excepted. Adam Cuerden talk 14:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] GA thoughts
- Well-written: Check, though 'Aristoxenus said, essentially, that since you can't hear the "music of the spheres", anyway, why not just sing and play what sounds good and reasonable to us? That simple philosophy underlay the entire later movement to tempered scales and even bears comparison to the recent abandoning, in much 20th-century music, of traditional rules of harmony in favor of what simply "sounds good".' is not particularly encyclopedic language
- Accurate, verifiable: Check
- Broad in its coverage: Ah, not so much. Ignores the means of marking ancient Greek music completely. The description of major and minor scales, "It is difficult for the modern listener to relate to that concept of ethos in music except by comparing our own perceptions that a minor scale is used for melancholy and a major scale for virtually everything else, from happy to heroic music.", is somewhat superficial of an analysis of major and minor.
- NPOV: Seems slightly in favour of Plato's views, but not in any significant way. Pass.
- stable: Check
- Images: Check.
I'm not sure. Maybe I'm being too harsh on the broadness. I'll leave it for the next reviewer to decide. 14:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] ancient Greece?
Isn't "Ancient Greece" a title in itself, like Rennaisance Europe? I have *never* seen ancient uncapitalised in this phrase outside of here. Adam Cuerden talk 11:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Failed GA
I see that considerable effort has been put into this article, which I appreciate. I'm sure anyone would learn a lot from the article.
However, the main problem is the stand the author is taking through the article. Anything statement that seems to take a Point of View must be referenced. It starts with Much of what defines western European culture in terms of philosophy, science, and the arts has origins in the culture of ancient Greece. I might not disagree, but I think sentences like these should be toned down. There are other examples. Already in lead, e.g. The very word music, itself, comes from the muses, the daughters of Zeus and patron goddesses of creative and intellectual endeavours. should be toned down as The word music comes from muses, the daughters of Zeus and patron goddesses of creative and intellectual endeavours. -- and it should have a reference added.
The word we and our is used a lot in the text. Who is "we"? In general, avoid this word.
The author is wanting to make a point also with this sentence: People, almost universally, seem disposed to recognize as consonant, for example, intervals of octaves, fifths and fourths.[3] They don't know--and don't care--that the arithmetic ratios that describe those intervals are 2:1, 3:2 and 3:4, respectively. which must be considered inappropriate since it isn't referenced. The first sentence is, but not the second sentence or the rest of the paragraph. Did Trehub actually say that people don't know and don't care about the arithmetic ratios?
There are probably other examples, but you get the point.
The use of images could be improved. Best not to put images on both right and left side on the same paragraph (see WP:MOS#Images) -- these is a reason for this, you can see a screenshot from my screen here. Disturbing for me to try and read that section....
