Talk:Munter hitch

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[edit] Article name

This discussion took place when this article was called Half hitch. --Smack (talk) 18:14, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I have never seen a munter hitch refered to as a half hitch. I have always heard a half-hitch refering to the entry listed here under "noose." - Dastal 01:24, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

That's funny. I learned my knots in the Scouts. The Scout Handbook was pretty clear on what a "half hitch" is, and it's neither of those things. It's this. I say we make "half hitch" a disambiguation page. --Smack (talk) 22:56, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, this doesn't seem right. Smack and the Boy Scouts are correct on the definition of a half hitch. I'm sure the Ashley Book of Knots would agree. I'm not sure I have enough experience with Wikipedia to go moving things around, though. Mattjm 02:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, then, I'll consider this an agreement. I'll put this page on my to-do list. --Smack (talk) 05:07, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Munter or Italian?

I attended a talk by Werner Munter on the 3x3 filter method (Avalanches). At the beginning of the talk he referred to his fame at the person with the knot named after him. He expressed his regret that the knot carried his name since he did not invent it and would prefer to have it called the "Italian Hitch" which was it's name when he popularized it. The German name for the knot is Halbmastwurf I'd like to propose that we honor this with and rename this article to "Italian Hitch" and redirect "Munter Hitch" to "Italian Hitch" Also, from what I understand this knot is referred to in Ashley Book of Knots (Hardcover), a well respected and referenced manual for knots, as the Italian Hitch. (Tsylos 21:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC))

The naming of knots has been a constant struggle for those attempting to document and categorize them. I've started writing some draft guidelines, currently residing on the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Knots page... In this particular case my gut feeling is to leave the article title as it is; the term "Munter hitch" is both quite common for this knot and less ambiguous than a "country-name" knot like "Italian hitch". That said I'm not really wed to either name, just what makes the most sense for readers. Is the usage of "Italian hitch" particularly common outside the US, for instance? I think the most important thing is that all the common names be clearly mentioned in the article and having proper redirects pointing to whatever the article is called. In any case, though, I think it would be great to add a "Naming" section where the history and naming issues are discussed, including if possible a citable source regarding Munter's modesty.
Regarding its presense in Ashley... The name "Italian hitch" does not appear in the index and no knots like it are found in the (admittedly sparse and badly dated) climbing section on pp 62-63. In the chapter on crossing knots it's shown as #1171-1173 as a crossing knot for wrapping packages and also in an intermediate step of #1195 the "Zig Zag Knot". The only other thing I found was #1818 where its shown again as a "Crossing knot" to run a line along a set of posts or stakes. However none of these are shown in any sort of variable friction role that the Munter is used for. Do you have any more specifics on that Ashley reference? Thanks. --Dfred 19:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
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