Talk:Mulesing

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Contents 1 Crutch 2 Mulesing/Crutching 3 Newspaper article: genetic mutation end of mulesing? 4 POV template 5 Topical 6 still not perfect, but... 7 Mulesing in New Zealand 8 Photos of anti-mulesing activism 9 Legal status in the UK 10 /*history*/ reference 11 Code of practice reference 12 External links 13 Article photo 14 China, South Africa 15 I think there is too much on the politics and not enough about the what and how 16 References 17 Something interesting from the UK 18 Another thing we have to do. 19 genetic weaknesses 20 stated cause of flystrike 21 reliable references 21.1 Email to PETA 22 Obsolete by 2010? 23 History 24 Pink 25 Academic studies

[edit] Crutch

Crutch is not a typo. It means crotch. Krisjohn

Krisjohn is right. Even as an urban Australian boy I know what the correct name for the back end of a sheep is. Please don't take this the wrong way. Oska 02:35, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Mulesing/Crutching

Comments refactored by CWC(talk) 17:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Crutching is shearing the wool from around the anus of a sheep. It requires some effort to marshal the sheep and have to manually shear them. If it didn't need to be done it wouldn't. Any procedure which involves having to handle animals like sheep is possibly stressful to the animals and considerations need to be taken to reduce such interactions. (I grew up on a farm and did rouse-about work, and my father is a shearer). It is not a pretty sight seeing flystrike. Live maggots crawling about the flesh of the sheep. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Adamcrow64 (talk • contribs) 05:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC).

It seems the words crutching and mulesing mean the same. Shouldn't we add a redirect or link to either? Both entries have valuable information. Nichiran 17:53, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)

Crutching involves removing (cutting) wool. Mulesing involves removing (cutting) skin. When done to sheep, there is wool attached to the skin that is cut off during mulesing. This is the only way they are similar.

I don't know that anyone does mulesing to anything other than a sheep, but I don't know that they don't, either.Garrie 00:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Is crutching done to prevent flystrike? If yes then they acheive the same thing and are done for the same reason - prevention of fly strike except one is long term (mulesing) and the other short term (crutching). Is this correct? - Ctbolt 22:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

As our article on crutching explains, fly-strike is not the only reason for doing it. Mulesing does not affect the need for head-crutching, and mulesed sheep can still develop dags and fecal stains. OTOH, mulesed sheep need a lot less crutching (which saves them a lot of stress — see Adomcrow64 above). So saying that "mulesing is long-term flystrike prevention and crutching is a short-term alternative" is fairly right, but leaves out some details. Cheers, CWC(talk) 18:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Newspaper article: genetic mutation end of mulesing?

Another thing: I found a scanned piece of newspaper on a friend's webpage stating that thanks to a genetic mutation in some sheep, mulesing may be unnecessary for those. Picture Would it be permitted and would it do the article good if I (or someone else) were to reproduce it in my (their) own words? Nichiran 18:14, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV template

This article desperately needs the attention of someone who is not an animal rights activist and knows something about sheep. SchmuckyTheCat 15:12, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've cleaned up a bit by removing some superfluous information that seemed to stem from bias and fixing some grammar. I will probably continue to do as time permits. --208.44.234.50 00:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Most of the article currently looks good, except for the persistent efforts to demoniza PETA. Saying it is "linked to enviro terrorist groups" is definitely not NPOV. I'm generally down with animal rights; at the same time, I have no idea whether mulesing should or should not happen because I don't know enough about the specific situation of Australian sheep farming, and in fact I'm at this moment making a scarf out Australian merino wool. Ozdaren: there are skillions of other places on the web for you to put forth your views about PETA, in as much detail as you'd like--Wikipedia is not a soapbox. PoetrixViridis 16:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Topical

It seems from my experience (20 years of farming, currently ageed 26) that mulesing is a very effective and inexpensive way of dealing with flystrike. I find the practice some what disturbing and do not appreciate carrying it out. Though in farming terms there is probably less bloody/mess/effort than assited birth or treating ... flystrike. If farmers didn't have to mulse, they wouldn't. No one wants to do it but it's just something that has to be done for the wellbeing of the animal. Cutting off dags (yes feices!) and handling it is not a great job either but we do it for the wellbeing of the animal.

Mulsing was developed in Australia for Australian conditions. Culturely Australia (especially the bush, who let all these flies in?) has a large population of flies. Mulesing in England seems like a bad idea... mulesing in Russia seems like a bad idea... but this is from an extremely ignorant point of view who has never been to sheep farms in England or Russia. In Australia though it really helps us out alot.

If you have ever had to treat flystrike you would consider mulsing as a needle prick. On smaller animals >2 months recovery time is incredibly quick and the discomfort certainly seems less that a human receving a tatoo. Maybe a bad comparison? Treating flystrike is one of the worst jobs someone can do. Working at a rubbish tip or sewerage plant would probably be more visually acceptable and wouldn't smell so bad. If you want to get an idea of it go leave a piece of meat out in the sun for a week during summer..., then get a pair of scissors and scrape of the maggots and poor some oniment over it.... nice. Admittedly you miss out on catching the animal, trying to treat it without causing discomfort to the animal that is moving about and removing the wool around the infection.

Sure we could gentically engineer our sheep to be resistant to fly strike... Great... GE sheep...

I'm probably coming from the non-animal activist side a bit too much... so I'm assuming my additions will be removed.--Viper233 22:22, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I would hope that the POV of an Australian farmer would be included. The unique situation of Australia and New Zealand definitely deserves some place as long as it's substantiated and verifiable. --208.44.234.50 00:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Well - I used to live on a farm where we mulsed but my parents are retired now. I used to hold lambs to be mulesed and I have never seen anywhere near as much damage inflicted as I have on the photos being used to get mulesing banned.

Re reducing incidence of fly strike through genetic engineering - it was only selective breeding for more prominant wrinkles and extremely heavy fleece weight (in a hot country!) that makes merinos so seceptible to fly strike in Australia anyway. Give it another 20 generations of selective breeding (that's only 40 or so years) and the problem could be very reduced. Genetic engineering would only assist by speeding up that process. Embryo transplants are easily carried out on sheep which would allow flock sheep to become donor mothers for stud wrinkle free merinos which would greatly reduce time for flocks to become less wrinkly. Anyway, it's hardly an issue while most of the sheep grazing areas of Australia are drought declared and carrying only 20% of normal stocking rates. Many farmers aren't even running rams with ewes until conditions improve anyway so flock size is decreasing fairly quickly. But not like in the 80's where many farmers euthenased >80% of their flock due to drop in wool price.Garrie 00:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

A small-scale sheep cockie told me the other day that most shearers tend to nick the edge of the vulva, leading to more urine getting in the wool, leading to more fly strike. More careful shearing a (more expensive?) alternative to mulesing? Doesn't help the whethers, though. Callophylla 08:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Or wethers, rather. My bad. Sorry. Callophylla 04:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] still not perfect, but...

took out alot of emotive language and vagueries content was ok however, style was much too subjective

[edit] Mulesing in New Zealand

According Federated Farmers mulesing is not carried out in New Zealand [1]. This needs to be verified and and used to update the article. Alan Liefting 06:28, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I've found that according to the Federated Farmers, 4% of sheep in New Zealand are currently mulesed.[2]. No other leads though. I'd be interested if that's true since New Zealand doesn't attract the same controversy as Australia has recently. --208.44.234.50 00:24, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

PETA is upset about both mulesing and live sheep export - I don't know that NZ do both those activities? PETA has more members in Australia than NZ too I expect. Australia is more urbanised than NZ. So animal husbandry practices aren't as everyday to the urbanised Australian PETA members compared to the more likely to be rural PETA members in NZ. Garrie 00:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

It is less prevalent in New Zealand where about one-third of merino sheep farmers are understood to still practice mulesing.

[3]Garrie 02:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Note, although there are almost 40 million sheep in NZ, only about 2million are Merino's - same ref. Garrie 02:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I can't seem to find the (NZ) Animal Welfare Act 1999 on the web. I think that would discuss the legal status of mulesing in NZ. I gather it is not particluarly covered by any legislation - so if someone was taken to court for cruelty I think if they could show they are following a code of practice (and the NZ MAF seem to have one?) then they would be OK... ? Garrie 03:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photos of anti-mulesing activism

One possible source of anti-mulesing activism photos might be this animal activism web site. There's a photo of Lucy the Sheep with Latham and Beatie. We'd probably have to ask for licensing though. Andjam 11:27, 7 January 2007 (UTC) During the ACOTF I asked for permission, or for an interested member there to contribute a photo. No response, and no images to date.Garrie 21:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Legal status in the UK

Second sentence of the lead paragraph makes it sound as though the reference covers legal status of Mulsing in the UK. But it doesn't.

Can anyone identify a source for legal status in UK? I will ask on the docking article too.Garrie 00:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

The same BBC article that talks about Pink says it is illegal in the UK, but a legal source is proving difficult to find. There seem to be a plethora of vegetarian/vegan websites that make that claim. --76.214.201.157 06:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

It is strange to me that there is a law for a practice which seems unlikely to be needed - it's like banning outdoor snowskiing in the UAE - given the flock sizes, breeds, and agricultural conditions in the UK. I think the climate in the UK probably isn't all that supportive of large populations of Lucillia cuprina, the main fly linked to fly strike (in Australia at least, and fly strike is that controllable in the UK I haven't seen mention of any contributing factors online).

BTW. I'm sorry but I didn't see that your edit was less POV than the one it replaced. In addition it removed the {{tl:unsourced}} tag even though it was no better sourced. That was my main reason for restoring the previous edit.Garrie 01:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I have re-read this, but I don't see where it mentions that mulesing is illegal in the UK?Garrie 01:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

No problems. The statement regarding the legal status of mulesing in the UK is under subhead "Pink Video" and reads, "The mini-film on the Peta website features lambs undergoing mulesing, which is illegal in the UK." --208.44.234.50 19:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out - the statement has been removed a couple of times because nobody had noticed this part of the article. I will directly cite the statement.Garrie 21:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Changed the statement re illegal status in Britain to reflect the references, I think it should stay like that unless a real reference can be found. As the claim is "it is illegal" the real reference is the law it is illegal under. Charles Esson 21:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The BBC is a reliable source for matters of law in the United Kingdom. Prester John 19:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] /*history*/ reference

[4] is provided as an in-line reference to the history section. But it is not a particularly great source and the article does not make any attempt to compare fly density in Australia with any other sheep producing country.

Yes flies are common in Australia but only certain flies contribute to fly-strike so surely there is a better reference than this?Garrie 00:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

This is better: <ref name = "AWI Blowfly"> {{cite web |title = Battling the blowfly – plan for the future |url = http://www.wool.com.au/mediaLibrary/attachments/Publications/insight_Blowfly_211106.pdf |format = pdf | date = [[3 June]][[2006]]| accessdate = 2007-01-09 | isbn = 1920908218 | author = Jules Dorrian | publisher = Australian Wool Innovation }}</ref>

It discusses Lucillia cuprina's introduction into Australia.

Garrie 01:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Code of practice reference

Sorry if this annoys anyone but this is the current model code of practice for sheep from CSIRO. Appendix 4 deals specifically with Mulesing.

Is there an article on pizzle dropping? It's red so I guess not. If PETA don't like mulesing, what have they got to say about cutting skin in front of the penis of an animal to reduce staining of wool (and as a bonus reduce fly-strike)?

<ref name = "Model Code"> {{cite web |url = http://www.publish.csiro.au/nid/22/pid/5389.htm |title = The Sheep - Second Edition |work = Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals |publisher = [[CSIRO]] Publishing |author = Primary Industries Ministerial Council |date=2006 |ISBN 0 643 09357 5 |accessdate=2007-01-09 }}</ref>

Garrie 03:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

It should be noted that most of the pictures I have seen visiting the various animal welfare organisation sites, show animals which have been mulsed other than in accordance with the recommended techniques (ie, done badly). This is why there is so much blood in most of the photos - which are inherently POV photos taken and distributed with the goal to incite feelings that this practice should be ceased.

I am all for banning people who don't know what they are doing, from taking a cutting implement to an animal (or a burning implement for that matter). But taking photos of people who are doing it wrong, and using them to ban the practice altogether, is not exactly NPOV. Unfortunately there are very few photos of well-mulesed sheep around. I think the article would be greatly improved by providing a clearly labelled picture of a sheep which 'has been mulsed in accordance with the recommendations of DPI, CSIRO etc. Garrie 04:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article photo

The photo in the article strongly POV from an animal welfare position. Clearly in this photo the code of practice has not been followed - "no other tissue such as selvage, muscle or other underlying tissue are to be removed or cut".

It is not representative of responsible use of this practice.

As it is a POV photo I strongly feel it should be removed.

At the very least - the caption should acknowledge the source. The imgage itself has been uploaded by user:Funkwaxpuppy whose only contributions have been to upload this image - without acknowleging a source - and to link it to this article.

Having said that - I acknowledge I have my own POV concerns here being a realist in terms of the use of this technique (that is - it is cost effective and if done correctly does more good than harm - but there may well be better techniques around for the appropriate care of sheep).Garrie 04:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

As the image was not attributed I have tagged it with {{tl:unverified}} and removed it from this article. If the image is correctly attributed it would be best to note the source in the caption.Garrie 04:57, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Bad time for photos, mulseing is done just after lambing, October or May, and we are in the middle of the worse drought since federation so I don't think there will be many may lambs this year.Charles Esson 12:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I know that much... I was hoping that maybe some of the journals / other references would include a photo of how it should be done, rather than the PETA photos of how to not do it.

Personally - if that's how everyone does mulesing, the sooner it's banned the better. But when I've been involved there's more blood from the tail docking than the mulesing, and that's only temporary - if there's blood it means you aren't finished yet. The sheep's pretty clean by the time it's out of the cradle.Garrie 00:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I am left wondering if the cruelty was performed by PETA to get the photograph. It would not be the the worse thing they have done.Charles Esson 09:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] China, South Africa

China produces more wool than Australia. The major problem fly for Australia is from South Africa, which also has merinos.

What is the status of mulesing in these countries? If Mulesing was routine in China - could PETA do anything about it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GarrieIrons (talk • contribs) 02:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

Australia produces 25% of the worlds wool, Chine 18%. When it comes to merino wool production ( that is where the problem is) Australia produces over 50% of the worlds production. South Africa produces 1% of the worlds wool production. Charles Esson 12:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I think there is too much on the politics and not enough about the what and how

Late at night, some random words. I will try and do some diagrams tomorrow night Charles Esson 13:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Mulesing involves increasing of the bear area around the breech by surgically removing wool bearing skin. It is done to reduce the risk of fly strike.

Numerous field trials have shown the benefit of mulseing sheep that are to be retained for breeding or wool production, field surveys done over 2 years in N.S.W. found that mulesing decreased the incident of flystrike by 90% ^[1]. Prime lambs and British breeds are unlikely to benefit ^[2].

The operation was first described by J.H.W. Mule in 1930, since then the recommended method has been modified and improved. The current practice is to remove a V of wool bearing extending one-third of the length of a tail that has been docked below the third palpable joint. The breech cuts commence next to the base of the tail and extend along the edge of the natural bear area that is below the tail and finish halfware between the anus and the hock.

Sound planning is required to minimise stress imposed on the lambs. To reduce the stress the operation is best performed within 2 to 8 week of lambing. A well designed vaccination program for the control of clostridial disease needs to be in place to eliminate the risk of these diseases following marking and mulesing. Infection risk is reduced by constructing temporary yards out in the paddock. Temporary yards facilitate the post operation mothering of ewes and lambs. A well planned operation reduces the mustering time and allows the lambs to cool down before the operations are started.

Mulseing shears need to be sterilized, sharp and in sound working condition before the operations starts, and should be disinfected at regular intervals ^[3].

Firstly - wikipedia is not a how-to manual so we don't need to go into what and how too much.

I think though, that a lot of this is already throughout the article. Also - there seems to be a bit of change going on with the approved practice of Mulesing in Australia. It would not suprise me if soon, the code of practice does not require pain relief. So - I think it would be best to refer the reader to the code of practice rather than attempt to give anything like instructions for how to do it...

I agree. My heading said it all "random words", first time I have done something like this and my thought was the best help I could give was random words.61.9.139.165 08:54, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

What we do need a reference for, is

• it was invented by Mules

Cottle states that the operation was first described by Mules during the 1930's, it does not say he invented it. I will try and find something. Charles Esson 10:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• early trials which found it to reduce incidence of fly strike

I gave a couple of reference above; unfortunately it is a trip to Werribee to get more. There is a mountain load of stuff available.Charles Esson 08:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• current statement in /*Method*/, "The non-wooled skin which is around the anus (and vulva in ewes) is pulled tight as the cut heals and results in a smooth area that does not get fouled by excreta or urine."

Your two journal references are excellent and I think would be best worked into a new section, /*Indicators*/ or similar (it is a vetinary/medical procedure after all).

I have used one of the references in the end of /*Comparison to crutching*/ where it discusses lambs being slaughtered.

Garrie 22:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

1. ^ Watts, J.E.; Murray, M.D. and Graham , N.P.H. (1979). "The blowfly strike problem in New South Wales". Aust. Vet. (55): 325 - 34. 
2. ^ Morley, F.H.W., and Johnstone,I.L. (1983). "Mulseing operation- a review of development and adaption.". Proceedings of the Second National Symposium - Sheep Blowfly and FlyStrike in Sheep, Sydney..
3. ^ Cottle, D.J. (1991). Australian Sheep and Wool Handbook. Melbourne, Australia: Inkata Press, 20-23. ISBN 0-909605-60-2. 

[edit] Something interesting from the UK

I was looking for something to go with "mulesing is illegal in the UK..." and I got this:

Britain produces less than 5% of world wool and is unable to influence the international market, which has suffered through generally reduced demand and little activity in China. In addition, because of adverse currency rates, in particular the strength of the $US, British Wool prices have suffered, in the same way as lamb prices, by being uncompetitive with comparable New Zealand types. However, it's still worth bearing in mind that French producers will be lucky to receive 23p/kg that, elsewhere in Europe, the price is so low that it is not worth moving off the farm and that, without the Wool Board British farmers would now have to pay to dispose of their wool. Now classed as a category 3 animal by-product waste, unwanted fleeces can only be incinerated and not burned, or buried, on-farm. In order to handle wool, all Wool Board depots are now required to have a Bio-Security clearance certificate and DEFRA is looking at on-farm collection centres.

from "The British Wool Marketing Board", Sheep Farmer - Wool Update - July/August, 01/07/06

ie - without subsidy in the UK it's not worth moving wool off the farm it's produced on - compared to in Australia where the 5+ year old merino weather is the waste product which we ship off to the UAE to get rid of.Garrie 02:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

(but I still can't find a source for the law in the UK)Garrie 02:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Generally Wool from British breeds is very course and the wool density is not high, that is why there is no value in mulesing British breeds even in Australia ( we have them for meat production). The courseness is why the wool has no value. (it is the same in Australia, there is little value in shearing the course wool, it is just something you have to do). As Britain doesn't even have the flies it would never have been as issue. I doubt very much that there is such a law, it much more likely to be missrepresentation by someone from PETA ( who would think such a thing). My view is the sentance should be removed unless a reference is found. Charles Esson 09:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree and I'm removing the statement. Anyone who can source it is free to put it back. Chances are they just don't have a code of practice for it but that's a lot different to it being illegal.Garrie 13:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another thing we have to do.

We have to get someone to go to Abercrombie & Fitch Co. and see if they are stocking wool products. I have just returned from the USA and as I am interested in textiles I look at what is in the stores, they still haven't discovered good quality woollen jumpers but they have discovered good quality woollen suits. Charles Esson 09:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I have taken the novel approach of leaving a message on the talk page. I'm assuming this is re: the PETA thing.Garrie 21:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] genetic weaknesses

"An additional argument is that mulesing may mask genetic susceptibility to fly strike". It may be a PETA argument but it is not an argument for not mulesing ewes. Unless it is a double stud the Australian merino stud practice is to keep data on the ram and not the ewes. As you use one ram to about 50 ewes this reduced the work required to keep large stud flocks. So if your interested in breeding "bear bum" sheep you would mules the ewes and not the rams.This however is not the place to deal with PETA's misrepresentation of the facts.Charles Esson 09:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it a PETA argument? Not mulesing ewes with a genetic susceptibility to flystrike could lead to flocks with better natural resistance, by allowing the ones susceptible to flystrike to die horrible slow deaths - hardly something PETA would want to promote, surely. --Scott Davis ^Talk 00:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I know of a farmer who got fed up with wool strike and decided to deal with it exactly as you suggest. But it isn't the fastest way; identifying your superior rams and using them is the quickest path. A dead ewe only removes a few progeny from the gene pool, a ram, well used adds hundreds. 61.9.139.165 11:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, almost 20 years ago my father was having lambing percentages over 180, several years in a row (in a flock setting - over 500 ewes). He was mainly supplying weathers to wool growers. From a stud perspective, their ewes throw both males and females. So indirectly they impact nearly as much of the bloodline as the ram does at their generation. Garrie 21:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thats a pretty good lambing percentage for merinos, up there with the best. The ram that is the lamb of the ewe you mentioned has a 50% influence from the the ewe and a 50% from the original ram. If well used and with a 180% lambing rate the origianl ram will have had a 50% influence on about 180 lambs. The ewe a 50% influence on 2. The next generation will contain a 50% influence from the ewe ( we are using her ram lamb),and a 50% from the origianl ram and a number of ewes from the origianl rams 90 ewe lambs. The ram wins. If the ram was good enough to join 100 ewes when trying to reach the target them it is reasonable to assume that more than one of his 90 ram lambs will go to the next generation. The ram then wins big time. Double studs are rare in the Australian Merino Industry for this reason, recording the phenotypes of the ewes is a lot of work and in the end a single ewe only has a large influence on the outcome if you use her ram lamb, which will be tested anyway. Charles Esson 22:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the method would be, once a sheep - ram or ewe - becomes flyblown you downgrade all their progeny from stud to flock. If records are only kept against the ram then you would simply stop breeding any more from the ewe. But yeah, it's pretty much the same as the arguement against docking tails - it would be better overall to only dock as a result of medical nessecity rather than as preventative, and any animal which has had to have it's tail docked shouldn't be used as breeding stock.

Personally docking and mulesing done correctly doesn't bother me, but I don't know who did the mulesing job that PETA took photos of.

Gee, studs run fairly low ewe:ram ratios compared to flock breeders. I knew it was low, I just didn't realise it is that low.Garrie 13:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] stated cause of flystrike

The section /*Controversy*/ includes:

Proponents of mulesing are largely from Australia where hot and humid weather is naturally conducive for severe fly strikes

(unreferenced otherwise I wouldn't really question it).

I didn't think the humidity around Hay, New South Wales was particularly high - especially compared to say New Zealand or England humidity levels. Yet flystrike is still an issue (even in droughts - when I am guessing again, humidity is low). I don't think it's the environmental humidity that contributes to flystrike - it's the humidity within the wool layer which is probably fairly consistant regardless of ambient humidity. But I'm easily swayed on this one...Garrie 13:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Mulesing deals with fly strike around the tail, you can also have woolstrike, it becomes a problem in humid weather, but your right we need some references. 61.9.139.165 11:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] reliable references

I formatted the reference added by Prester John but I don't believe it is reliable:

Mulesing is currently illegal in Britain where fly strike is a relatively controllable problem. Roger Panaman (2004). Wool. Brute Ethics - The Animal Ethics Encyclopedia. Retrieved on 2007-01-14.

Quotes in the article include:

• "Mulesing is the partial skinning alive of lambs..."
• "Stock hands carry out the operation with no demand for competence..."
• "Blowflies look like house files..."

How do we know this one is any better?

• "Mulesing is illegal in Britain."

--Scott Davis ^Talk 09:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I've been told my edit to this part of the article are pushing a personal bias so I'll step back from discussions about the reliability of the reference. But it may be difficult to find a single reference which supports both sections of this statement.Garrie 22:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I've asked for reference assistance at Wikipedia talk:UK Wikipedians' notice board#Mulesing legality reference question. --Scott Davis ^Talk 01:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a case where a real legal reference is required not another "half baked" web page. 61.9.139.165 11:11, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

In Legal Status in UK" section above, IP contributor has pointed out the comment in the BBC / Pink article...This one. I will directly cite the relevant part of the article.Garrie 21:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Changed the statement re illegal status in Britain to reflect the references, I think it should stay like that unless a real reference can be found. As the claim is "it is illegal" the real reference is the law it is illegal under. Charles Esson 21:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The BBC is a reliable source when it comes to United Kingdom law. Prester John 19:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The BBC is a Secondary/tertiary source just like Wikipedia; Wikipedia is supposed to reference it's facts. What we have is the statement "Mulesing is illegal in the UK” flying around the Internet with nobody calling for a reference. As I said above, the claim is that it is illegal, it should not be hard to get a reference, there has to be a law. Until there is a reference the best one can say factually is that advocates are claiming it is illegal, if the BBC got sucked in too, that is the BBC's problem. Under which British law is it illegal? It needs a reference.Charles Esson 20:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

PS: If you think news services are factual you obviously haven't been quoted in the news, I've had that experience, news services and facts are only loosely related.Charles Esson 20:50, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

PPS: John maybe a real reference can be had by going and asking PETA, if it's true I am sure they will be only too happy to help; if it's a load of codswallop no doubt you will get no answer. I really want to know if it's true or not, if it is fiction how the urban myth came about and how it was sustained on the Internet would make an interesting case study, perhaps even a wikipedia article. If it's true the standard of Wikipedia rises as it looks as if wikepedia will be the first to have a decent reference. Well that is if you take on the challenge and this doesn't degenerate into an edit war. Charles Esson 21:05, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Email to PETA

I sent the following email to: info@peta.org.uk . I will let you know if I get a responce.

Could you please supply a reference for the statement "Mulesing is illegal in the UK". 
We need a reference for the wikipedia article on Mulesing.

Regards.

Charles Esson 21:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Got the following auto responce

Thank you for contacting PETA. To allow us to provide you with the best service, please do not send your question to other PETA e-mail addresses. We will make sure that the proper person receives your message. This e-mail was automatically generated to provide you with the following initial information. Animal emergencies (such as reports of cruelty) will be passed along to the appropriate staff member or organisation so that they can be handled immediately. If you are reporting a Web site that shows animal abuse, please click here. [5] If you are a member of the media with an urgent query, please call +44 (0)20 7357 9229, extension 232. If your enquiry concerns membership, a donation you have made or a request for information on how to leave a legacy to PETA, you will receive a personal response from a staff member soon. We read all letters and value your comments and suggestions. Your input is important to us and will be shared with the appropriate staff member, even if you do not receive a response. Because of the tremendous volume of mail that we receive, we cannot respond personally to every enquiry. However, requests for information that include a mailing address will be fulfilled right away. Please note that it may take up to two weeks to receive an e-mail response. If the answer to your query is on any of our Web sites, you might not receive a response. Try searching these sites or at http://www.AskCarla.com for information. Find information about PETA here. [6] If you would like to receive information and updates, please sign up for PETA E-News. [7] For safety reasons, we do not open any e-mail attachments. If you have sent an attachment, please resend your message with the contents of the attachment pasted into your e-mail. Thanks again for your feedback and interest in animal rights. Sincerely, The PETA Staff We need your help! Support PETA's vital campaigns to save animals. [8] We have stepped up our "Kentucky Fried Cruelty" Campaign after KFC refused to adopt the recommendations of its own animal welfare advisors. Please help us change KFC! Learn more. [9]

Charles Esson 21:48, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Had no reply.
Charles Esson 07:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Charles Esson 20:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Obsolete by 2010?

The lede currently says that mulesing "is expected to be phased out by 2010." The two references at the end of that sentence relate to earlier parts of the sentence. Does anyone have a good source for the "phased out by 2010" bit? I'd guess that sheep breeders hope to produce ewes with bare backsides through genetic manipulation, and I wonder whether they plan to use the old-fashioned (several millenia, at least) GM methods or the 'new-fangled' approach. The latter would, of course, cause a whole new set of protests by ignorant city people. Cheers, CWC(talk) 23:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Update: See P. J. James, "Genetic alternatives to mulesing and tail docking in sheep: a review", Australian Journal of Experimental Agriculture, Vol. 46, No. 1 (Feb 2006), Pages 1-18. (I haven't read it yet.) CWC(talk) 11:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

Until recently, we had the following sentence:

Mules discovered that, after being struck many times, one of his sheep was losing the wrinkles round her hind end due to close crutching when his hand slipped with the shears, removing skin.

I'm not the only one confused by this sentence, so I've just rewritten it to be simpler but less informative.

I've discovered that the reference for the history of Mulesing is
Beveridge, W. I. B., "The Origin and Early History of the Mules Operation". Australian Veterinary Journal 61(5), 1984, pp161-163 ([10])
but I couldn't find a copy. Does anyone have one? Cheers, CWC(talk) 11:31, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pink

What has the view of a pop singer and her back flip got to do with a encyclopedia article on Mulesing; if there is an article on Pink, or urban myths mention it there (I suspect she only got a mention because she gave legs to the urban myth that mulesing was illegal in england). Charles Esson 21:04, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Academic studies

I've just moved the following paragraph here. It was added last January. It is deeply misleading and contains some important outright lies.

In their comprehensive, long-term study, Fell and Shutt (1989) found that stress-related behavior in sheep continued for up to 113 days following mulesing. Among other examples, mulesed sheep displayed abnormal postures most likely resulting from the painful mulesing wound for up to 48 hours following mutilation; they stood with head down, nose almost touching the ground, back arched, and body hunched (p. 288). Chapman et al. (1994) verified these findings in their own study, reporting that surgically mulesed sheep quickly assumed a hunched-up posture (p. 246). Normal daily behavior was also altered for up to 72 hours. Compared to sheep in the control group, mulesed sheep did not engage in routine feeding, lying, or grazing. Instead, they spent much of their time standing still, unable to engage in normal activities because of the severe trauma that they had experienced. Researchers did not observe any of the mulesed animals lying or resting on the day following mutilation or even drinking until the second day following mutilation. Chapman et al. (1994) also found that mulesed sheep lost weight during the week following mutilation, moved about less frequently and over shorter distances than the control-group sheep during the first eight days after treatment, and often simply stood still (pp. 244–45). [11]

Points to note:

1. That link is to Google's HTML version of http://www.savethesheep.com/pdf/WoolReport12-04-02.pdf.
2. That PDF is entitled "An Examination Of Two Major Forms Of Cruelty In Australian Wool Production: Mulesing And Live Exports". Woops, there goes Reliable Sourcing ...
3. www.SaveTheSheep.com?! Could there be a bit of an agenda there?
   Well, yes: it's run by PETA.
4. In a closely related development, the very title reveals profound ignorance: since when has "Live Exports" been part of "Wool Production"?
5. "Fell and Shutt (1989)" actually refers to "Behavioural and hormonal responses to acute surgical stress in sheep", L. R. Fell and D. A. Shutt, Applied Animal Behaviour Science, Volume 22, Issues 3-4, April 1989, Pages 283-294. Abstract here; a PDF of the paper costs US$30.
   This is not a "comprehensive, long-term study" of mulesing: they studied 20 wethers for about 3 months.
   (It is a very nice piece of research. They mulesed 10 wethers aged 6–7 months and measured their stress levels over the next few months, along with a control group. The abstract is certainly worth reading.)
6. "Chapman et al (1994)" is "A comparison of stress in surgically and non-surgically mulesed sheep", Chapman R E, Fell L R and Shutt D A, Australian Veterinary Journal, 71(11):388 (Nov 1994). Article is not available online (?!), abstract here.
   (They were trying "a quaternary ammonium compound" which damages the skin enough to prevent wool growth, and they compared the results of chemical mulesing and surgical mulesing on some 9-10 month old wethers.)
7. Neither of those papers studied the mulesing of weeks-old ewes. Both studied mulesing of wethers at least six months old. (Note: anyone who does not know why the gender difference is vital has no understanding of this topic.)
8. That text is a word-for-word copy from the PETA propaganda. Only a few punctuation marks have been changed.

Long story short: this text is (1) a Copyright Violation and (2) PETA propaganda masquerading as an academic study by radically misrepresenting real research. Bah. CWC 11:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)