Talk:Muammar al-Gaddafi

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[edit] Living people category

Recently, malber has added the "Living people" category to the Gaddafi article three times, and I removed it twice.

I can see the logic of having such a category for doubtful cases but my reasoning for its removal in regard to Gaddafi is that he appears in the "1942 births" category and, because there is no year of death category, it is superfluous – if not downright fatuous – to categorize him as living.

Other editors' comments would be appreciated.Phase1 13:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I, too, think it's a bit of a kludge. I can see where it'd be useful to get a list of living people with articles, but I think it'd be better to create some sort of query to generate the list automatically based on the presence of a birth category and absence of death, as you describe. Probably not a big issue worth fighting over, though. Bryan 20:05, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

This is a specially requested category by Jimbo Wales in order to vet and verify the biographies of living people. It was recently protected from a CfD unilaterally by him. Because Qaddafi is such a controversial historical figure of the 20th century and is still living, IMO it is important for this article to be a part of that process. --malber 15:02, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I've now seen some of the discussion here which, although not entirely convincing, does at least give one utilitarian reason for having a living people category.Phase1 16:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Is "Qaddafi" really pronounced with a [g] as in "good" or "gas"?. I was always under the impression that it was a [q] (a voiceless uvular plosive). That's not even the same place of articulation as [g].

Peter Isotalo 22:49, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

The hard [g] is the nearest in English pronunciation to the Arabic [q] equivalent.Phase1 11:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
That's assuming that the speaker in question is properly devoicing their "g"s. I think it's pretty misleading to say "pronounced Gaddafi" in the lead when it most obviously isn't. Why not keep a sound file and IPA transcriptions like we do with so many other articles?
Peter Isotalo 12:27, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
By all means let us have a sound file and IPA transcriptions but please not in the opening paragraph, otherwise the article will appear impenetrable. Best, therefore, to include the arcane phonetics issue with section 8: Spelling, where some spellings of Gaddafi's name actually do start with a capital [g].Phase1 14:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
"Impenetrable"? Nonsense. We have tons of articles that have IPA transcriptions and sound files for famous people that are hardly too cryptical because of it. Separate sections for pronunciation info only invites transcription trivia, like minor dialectal variations and such. We're only talking a link to an audio file from the bolded title and an IPA transcription of his last name.
Peter Isotalo 11:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

The points you make have a more general application than to the specific Gaddafi article. I'll pursue our discussion on your talk page.Phase1 13:03, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I inserted a sound file I recorded and I removed the "pronounced Gaddafi" since I don't believe it assists correct pronunciation moreso than the standard spelling. Oh, and who inserted the IPA? Is it really correct that all three sounds in Qaddafi are really long? Both the dental fricative [ð] and the [i]?
Peter Isotalo 07:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
"pronounced Gaddafi" has been reinserted to explain the subsequent spelling in this article, and other Wikipedia articles, of Gaddafi's name.Phase4 13:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Start changing the spelling to the most common one instead of confusing people with that godforsaken "g". The spelling just doesn't make any sense if it's neither common nor enlightening concerning the pronunciation. Try to avoid basing decisions that results in... well... tails waggings dogs.
Peter Isotalo 13:19, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I have to admit there's a lot of sense in what you say. I'll try "moving" the article to the Gaddafi spelling, and sit back and wait for an explosion of complaints. If the complaints fail to materialise, I'll wag my tail!Phase4 16:54, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Try to explain yourself instead of resorting to sarcasm. Why are you keeping a comment that uses a spelling that is intended to clarify the pronunciation when it's actually neither the most common nor even helpful to English speakers to approximate the native pronunciation?
And, yes, we're discussing this article, not a thousand other articles with any number of views on Arabic transliteration.
Peter Isotalo 12:52, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand the point you're making, nor the apparent anger with which you're making it!Phase4 22:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

"Gaddafi" is a spelling which does not aid correct pronunciation, yet you insist on keeping it. It also doesn't seem to be the most common one, but you don't mind moving the entire article to that name. Explain yourself, please.
Peter Isotalo 19:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
The word "Gobbledegook" springs to mind!Phase4 22:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Well actually the spelling "Gaddafi" is the exact pronunciation as far as the libyan dialect goes. That's how we say it. The proper way would be to replace the G with an emphatic 'Q' and replace the 'dd' with a sound like 'th' as in 'the'. however, Gaddafi is still accurate and far more common in the great J-riya.24.86.60.230 16:58, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

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