Talk:Motorcycle fork

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[edit] Motorcycle Fork vs Fork Tube

It seems that the whole assembly (triple clamp and fork tubes) is called a fork. The BMW, Ducati, and Moto Guzzi web sites all give specifications for the forks on their bikes without mention of "fork tubes".

This also allows for an article to incorporate other fork implementations such as spring forks and BMW's Telelever fork that do not use traditional telescoping fork tubes.

Finally, Dictionary.com lists one definition of "fork" as "the support of the front wheel axles of a bicycle or motorcycle, having the shape of a two-pronged fork." -AndrewDressel 18:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leading Link and Trailing Link forks

I don't know who the mysterious M-72 is, but I appreciated and learned form his additions to [this] motorcycle forks page. He should make himself known! -Jeff dean 15:10, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coaxial steering front suspension

I hated quoting as much as I did in the new section, but, without a decent diagram, every time I tried to paraphrase, I couldn't be sure of exactly what a particular term meant. If anyone has a better way to describe this fork, please chime in. -AndrewDressel 17:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Naming of fork types

Since neither the Telelever or Duolever were invented by BMW, I don't think that they should be title as BMW. Saxon-Motodd invented the telelever type and for many years they were called Saxon-Motodd forks in the British bike press, long before BMW used them. The Duolever was developed by Norman Hossack though used by Claude Fior and John Britten on racebikes long before BMW copied them. Indeed BMW waited until Hossack's patent had expired before copying them. They were frequently referred to as Hossack/Fior forks but it should be noted that Hossack himself described the system as a steered upright.M-72 18:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Excellent info. I've added it. Anyone else using either of these designs these days? Any hope of finding references? -AndrewDressel 20:26, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
The change makes perfect sense. Any chance of putting some references/citation to the inventors? --Cheesy Mike 09:46, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I'll think about it. I'll release anything under GFDL but it must NOT be Americanised except under GFDL. That is the original British English version is included. I have to admit that I am shocked that no-one has apparently read Foale and reported his studies, even though he is quoted here. While Tony may not be God/Guru, his work is fundamental to appreciating motorcycle suspension. If you want a really weird one to tax your brains, look at the 1931 OEC Duplex steering system - minimal unsprung mass!M-72 13:36, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
It might be better if you didn't. While I would sure like to see that information in the article, I would also hate for it to get tangled up in some kind of editing war. I started (this version of) the article and completely do not care what kind of English it is in (have you seen my spelling?), so long as I can read it, but others clearly do (hence the written policies), and I'm afraid it will just become a mess. Sorry. -AndrewDressel 14:32, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
No worries Andrew, I'd rather provide the information in languages other than English than accept American linguistic Imperialism. US participants seems to totally ignore Wikepedia's guidlines on language and wish to repeat the 2005 RV Wars. They're failing in their geographic Imperialism and will fail in cultural Imperialism. Soon enough one or the other form of Spanish will predominate in the US and it won't matter. M-72 15:27, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
It could be argued, according to the manual of style, that any edits that do use a particular national variation of English establish the language for all future edits of the article. The article only contains one Americanised spelling (hub center steering) and that is a link to a named article. b.t.w. Am I alone in finding the language used in the Coaxial steering section tortuous? "therethrough" and "rotably" are not easily understood, nor am I sure they are real words. It looks like that section is a quote. It would be much better if it were re-written to make it more understandable. --Cheesy Mike 16:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I completely agree about the Coaxial steering section. Sounds like legalese. See the talk section above. -AndrewDressel 17:40, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Girder Fork vs Springer Fork

The two descriptions do not do enough of a job, for me anyway, of distinguishing these two types. They both have external springs mounted on or near the triple tree. Anyone have any details that might help? I read on-line that girder forks use a "triangular design"[1] while springer forks are "an early type of leading link fork". Is that correct? I can't tell from the pictures. Does that distinguish them? Inquiring minds would like to know. -AndrewDressel 15:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Springers have two parallel sets of legs. The rear is firmly fixed to the bottom triple clamp (usually brazed or welded). A short leading link holds the wheel and the forward leg which actuates the springs (usually mounted on the triple clamp). The girder on the other hand, fixes the wheel firmly to the (usually a long diamond shape) upright and the pivot points are short links mounted to the top and bottom triple clamps. The spring is (usually) mounted to the girder and compressed against the upper triple clamp. The essential difference is where the pivoting for wheel movement takes place. Clear as mud? M-72 00:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
In fact, quit helpful. I'll try to work this into the article. Thanks. -AndrewDressel 02:54, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with fork tubes and triple tree

The existing fork tubes and triple tree articles now look like they should be subsections under the telescopic fork section of this article. They are both short enough: triple tree is only a stub. -AndrewDressel 13:56, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree for triple trees. I can't see that ever having enough information to warrant a seperate article.
I'm not so sure about fork tubes. I can see a that there might be written a fairly detailed article discussing, e.g, how telescopic tubes work, the differences between cartridge and non-cartridge forks, more details on upside-down forks (perhaps a history?), differing designs for adjustments, etc. But then again, would that go under "fork tube" or "telescopic forks"? --Pi3832 15:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps there should be a separate article on telescopic forks that incorporates "fork tubes" and "triple trees"? IIRC, fork tubes are applicable only to telescopic forks, and would therefore fall fully within the scope of an article on telescopic forks. Would that also be true for triple trees? Respectfully, SamBlob 17:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
How about this, if or when the telescopic fork section of this article grows to the point of needing its own article, we can break it out then. For now, I think we gain by having all the fork related stuff in one article. Weaknesses in one section and discrepencies between sections will stand out better that way (at least for me). I'm already tempted to copy or even move the fork information from Suspension (motorcycle) and leave just a brief stub. It already points to this as the main article. One descrepency I've already noticed between the two articles is that the old, original fork tube article that I merged into here seems to describe both uppers and lowers as a fork tube. Suspension (motorcycle) seems to use fork tube and fork body for the two pieces. We should straighten that out at least. -AndrewDressel 19:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
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