Image talk:Motherhood 18.jpg
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[edit] Fair use disputed
"Its usage will not harm the sales of the Xena television series, or any related merchandise."
- Disputed: The use of this image here may harm the inteded distribution of this material. We must be sure that this image is intended for widespread use by the media before claiming out use won't harm the original intended use. --Abu Badali 23:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- How would it harm the sales of any Xena related content? Not to mention that the episode in question aired 5/15/00, so I doubt they are promoting it anymore. --DrBat 14:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- I can't say how our use would harm the value of the original image without knowing the details of the publication of the original image (aka, source information). --Abu Badali 16:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- The image was used to a promote an episode that aired in 2000. Furthermore, its series is cancelled now. Any chance of it hurting anything is moot. --DrBat 17:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Where was the image used (by the copyright holder) to promote an episode? Where is it implied that anyone can use it for the same purpose? --Abu Badali 18:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Seeing as how it was used to promote an episode which aired in May 2000, I doubt the original source still exists. You are making things harder than they need to be, and there is no way an image from an episode of a cancelled series that features its two characters posing will hurt said series in any way. --DrBat 18:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- So let it be deleted and upload a screenshot from the episode. I will serve the same purpose and will have a verifiable source. --Abu Badali 18:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Again, you are making things far harder than they need to be. Unless you can find a reason that using this image will harm the sales of any Xena-related content, just drop it. --DrBat 18:56, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Again, without verifiable source information, we can't make any statements about "sales of any Xena-related content" or any other possible lost of value. --Abu Badali 19:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Do you honestly believe using this image will hurt the sales of anything Xena-related? --DrBat 19:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- I honestly think it will hurt Wikipedia. --Abu Badali 19:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Are you serious? What, will Universal sue Wikipedia because there's an image of Xena and Gabrielle there? --DrBat 19:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm serious. It's not about lawsuits. It's about relaxing image sourcing rules and allowing a flood of more bad images. --Abu Badali 19:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- The question was whether or not using this image would hurt the sales of any Xena-related content (DVDs, games, ect). Answer: it doesn't. There is no way that using an image of the two characters posing would stop someone from going out and buying a DVD or something. --DrBat 19:32, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- The "sales of any Xena-related content" are not the only thing that may be hurt by our use of this image. If this image was, for instance, intended to be part of a member-only official site, it's use here would be competitive with the original use, and the fair use claim would be invalid. Note that I'm not saying I believe this is the case here. This is just one (of many possible) examples of why we need reliable and verifiable source information for every image. --Abu Badali 19:41, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- So basically, it's a worst case scenario, no matter how extremely unlikely that case may be?
- It will not hurt the sales of any Xena-related content. It's the first image that comes up when you google "xena gabrielle". It appears on numerous fansites. Wikipedia using it will not hurt the sales of anything. --DrBat 19:47, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Google images and numerous fansites are not valid sources. --Abu Badali 19:53, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Not my point; my point was it's an image littered on sites throughout the net, disproving your 'members-only' theory.
- AGAIN, it will not harm the sales of any Xena-related content. Unless you can prove otherwise, please drop it.--DrBat 21:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- My point is that Wikipedia uses higher standards for accepting images than most fansites (that simply grab the first image that comes up when you google for some term).
- Again, it's not only about harming "the sales of any Xena-related content". And no, I don't have to prove anything. The burden of proof (that our use won't hurt the image's value) is on the one claiming fair use. And no fair use claim would have grounds without reliable source information. --Abu Badali 21:31, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Argh. The only point it had to meet is "The material must not be used in a manner that would likely replace the original market role of the original copyrighted media; our use of copyrighted material should not make it so that one no longer needs to purchase the actual product." It is COMMON SENSE that the usage of the image won't hurt the "actual product" (ie the ACTUAL TELEVISION SHOW). There is nothing to prove. There is no way that an image of the two characters posing will harm any related content in any way. This is insane.--DrBat 21:51, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Calm down. We're walking in circles. The whole point here, for the beggining, since the first {{no source}} tag was added, is that in order to make any fair use claim, we need to know "the original market role of the original copyrighted media", that is, verifiable source information. --Abu Badali 15:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- The original copyrighted media is the episode itself. The image is a scene from the fifth season episode "Motherhood"; it's usage won't harm the sales of said show in any way. --DrBat 17:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- No, it's not. The image is not a screenshot. The logo at the botton right is an evidence. The image is a work on itself. --Abu Badali 17:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- See http://ausxip.com/screengrabs/season5/22-mhd/ulthm6.htm. The image comes directly from the scene itself. --DrBat 23:24, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- I couldn't reach this conclusion by looking at that screenshot gallery. This images was likely taken in the set, it doesn't make it a screenshot. --Abu Badali 14:04, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- See http://ausxip.com/screengrabs/season5/22-mhd/ulthm6.htm. The image comes directly from the scene itself. --DrBat 23:24, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- No, it's not. The image is not a screenshot. The logo at the botton right is an evidence. The image is a work on itself. --Abu Badali 17:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- The original copyrighted media is the episode itself. The image is a scene from the fifth season episode "Motherhood"; it's usage won't harm the sales of said show in any way. --DrBat 17:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Calm down. We're walking in circles. The whole point here, for the beggining, since the first {{no source}} tag was added, is that in order to make any fair use claim, we need to know "the original market role of the original copyrighted media", that is, verifiable source information. --Abu Badali 15:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Argh. The only point it had to meet is "The material must not be used in a manner that would likely replace the original market role of the original copyrighted media; our use of copyrighted material should not make it so that one no longer needs to purchase the actual product." It is COMMON SENSE that the usage of the image won't hurt the "actual product" (ie the ACTUAL TELEVISION SHOW). There is nothing to prove. There is no way that an image of the two characters posing will harm any related content in any way. This is insane.--DrBat 21:51, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Google images and numerous fansites are not valid sources. --Abu Badali 19:53, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- The "sales of any Xena-related content" are not the only thing that may be hurt by our use of this image. If this image was, for instance, intended to be part of a member-only official site, it's use here would be competitive with the original use, and the fair use claim would be invalid. Note that I'm not saying I believe this is the case here. This is just one (of many possible) examples of why we need reliable and verifiable source information for every image. --Abu Badali 19:41, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- The question was whether or not using this image would hurt the sales of any Xena-related content (DVDs, games, ect). Answer: it doesn't. There is no way that using an image of the two characters posing would stop someone from going out and buying a DVD or something. --DrBat 19:32, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm serious. It's not about lawsuits. It's about relaxing image sourcing rules and allowing a flood of more bad images. --Abu Badali 19:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Are you serious? What, will Universal sue Wikipedia because there's an image of Xena and Gabrielle there? --DrBat 19:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- I honestly think it will hurt Wikipedia. --Abu Badali 19:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Do you honestly believe using this image will hurt the sales of anything Xena-related? --DrBat 19:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Again, without verifiable source information, we can't make any statements about "sales of any Xena-related content" or any other possible lost of value. --Abu Badali 19:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Again, you are making things far harder than they need to be. Unless you can find a reason that using this image will harm the sales of any Xena-related content, just drop it. --DrBat 18:56, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- So let it be deleted and upload a screenshot from the episode. I will serve the same purpose and will have a verifiable source. --Abu Badali 18:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Seeing as how it was used to promote an episode which aired in May 2000, I doubt the original source still exists. You are making things harder than they need to be, and there is no way an image from an episode of a cancelled series that features its two characters posing will hurt said series in any way. --DrBat 18:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Where was the image used (by the copyright holder) to promote an episode? Where is it implied that anyone can use it for the same purpose? --Abu Badali 18:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- The image was used to a promote an episode that aired in 2000. Furthermore, its series is cancelled now. Any chance of it hurting anything is moot. --DrBat 17:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- I can't say how our use would harm the value of the original image without knowing the details of the publication of the original image (aka, source information). --Abu Badali 16:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- How would it harm the sales of any Xena related content? Not to mention that the episode in question aired 5/15/00, so I doubt they are promoting it anymore. --DrBat 14:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] IFD discussion
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This image was nominated for deletion on 2006 October 7. The result of the discussion was keep. |
