Talk:Mosuo
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[edit] No Word for "Murder" and "Rape"
The article says: "Perhaps most telling about this particular social arrangement is that the Mosuo have no words for the concepts of murder, war, rape and jails. This social system appears to be the example of the matriarchal societies that are envisioned by Riane Eisler and many other feminist social thinkers." What is the source for the claim that they have no such words? One would think they would at least have picked up such words from the Chinese. And the idea that a society where men have little or no responsibility to care for their children is a feminist paradise strikes me as a little silly. - Nat Krause 20:53, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- Seconded. I'm always very suspicious of claims that some ethnic group or another doesn't have words for certain concepts. It usually turns out to be wrong. - Haukurth 17:03, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
There was a PBS Frontline special on the Mosuo people. On the Frontline website, the statement in question is there. PBS is a reputable source, and certainly a documentary on the Mosuo people can give more insight to their culture. Simply saying that you're suspicious doesn't guarantee proof. Have you studied their language? Certainly, I am sure that they have learned of the words for murder, war, and rape from Mandarin Chinese, but Chinese languages and dialects remain strongly unique, and picking up words here and there does not generally happen. Regions and their people remain very proud and firmly rooted in their own culture, dialect/language. -- Anonymous
- Add it back, then. But please attribute it carefully to its source. And I suspect a more original source than the PBS can be found. - Haukurth 22:20, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Response regarding murder/rape
Regarding the "accuracy" of a documentary, there have been numerous documentaries about the Mosuo, most of which continue to perpetuate common myths about the Mosuo. In fact, most such documentaries base the majority of their research on previous documentaries.
It is curious that you bring up the question "Have you studied their language?". Because I very highly doubt that you have. And I know that the majority of documentary producers have not. On the other hand, I have not only lived with the Mosuo, I am the founder of an organization that is working to create a written form of their language (which currently is a purely oral language), and work with anthropologists and linguists who do detailed study of the language. As I have said elsewhere, it is technically true that there are no words for "rape" or "murder" in their language; but they have other words that are used for that meaning (such as using "kill" to cover both accidental and intentional killing). And any attempt to draw the conclusion that the lack of such specific words indicates a lack of murder or rape is ludicrous, as the Mosuo themselves will readily attest. I regret that I lack solid documentation of this, as by far the majority of my own information comes from speaking with the Mosuo themselves. However, you can feel free to check out our organization's website, Lugu Lake Mosuo Cultural Development Association, which has extensive information about the Mosuo that has all been provided and approved by Mosuo academics (including Lamu Gatusa, the leading authority on Mosuo history/culture, and a prominent Mosuo leader). I don't object to including information about the lack of particular words in their language; only with the common conclusion that this is an indication or proof that such things don't happen in Mosuo culture. --- John Lombard
This may be from "A Society Without Fathers or Husbands: The Na of China" (ISBN: 1890951129) By Cai Hua. ('Na' is what he says the mosuo self-identify as). When I find my copy, I'll have a look.
It's almost always significant to find a society without words that are commonly found in other societies. Murder and rape may not be unknown to the Mosuo now, but my guess is that at some point in the past they were. Athana 22:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I forget how to add a separate section in the discussion section, and my comment is on religion. I added this very significant phrase to the religion section: ".... based on animistic principles and involves ancestor worship and the worship of a mother goddess: "The Mosuo are alone among their neighbors to have a guardian mother goddess rather than a patron warrior god" (Mathieu, 2003)." Cai Hua, too, discusses the Na mother goddess in several places in his giant ethnographical treatise, so let's not leave her out, here! Athana 22:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
BTW, John, thanks for doing this. I think that overall it's very good. Athana 22:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] fishermen
Under the lifestyle section, shouldn't "fishermen" be replaced with fishers?
[edit] Clean-up
My apologies that the original entries I made were not entirely up to Wikipedia editing standards; it is my first time to make a major entry like this, and I was unfamiliar with what is required. I have edited it further to make it more readable, and hope that it is found to be suitable. If there are further changes required, please let me know. -- John Lombard
[edit] Alternate names (Nuerguo 女儿国 / Nuguo 女国 / "Women's Country")
I remember reading about the Mosuo culture, but had only heard about it under the name of 女儿国 or "Women's Country" or "Girl's Country". It seems they are somewhat common terms for Lake Lugu (Google search for '女儿国 lugu'), should it be mentioned in the article? --Lost-theory 14:26, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
