Talk:Mor Hananyo Monastery

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[edit] Correct name

I know that the article title is the correct official Syriac name of the monastery, but it is almost always referred to as Dayr al-Za`faran (or some variant spelling). Does anyone have any thoughts about which is better for the article title: the official name or the common name? --Gareth Hughes 21:26, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I moved it. I conducted a Google test, Dayro d-Mor Hananyo returns 120 hits but Deyrülzafarân returns 970. Deyrülzafarân is more common in the English language. More importantly, the web-site of the monastery itself refers to it as Deyrülzafarân. Baristarim 08:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I just notice that the article was moved to 'Mor Hananyo Monastery' with an appeal to the highly influential 'Google test'. The truth is that the best known name of the monastery is that based on the Arabic دير الزعفران. In scientific transliteration, this is Dairu 'l-Za‘farān, but it is transliterated in many different ways. The Turkish spelling, Deyrülzafarân, has some weight behind it, as that is the way it's written on the road sign at the bottom of the hill. It is also how it is written on the sign over the main gate into the monastery complex. In Syriac, it is written ܕܝܪܐ ܕܟܘܪܟܡܐ, Dairo d-Kurkmo, and it seems this is a back translation from the Arabic (as the Arabic is far better known). Of course, this well-known name is, in fact, a nickname. It is really ܕܝܪܐ ܕܡܪܝ ܚܢܢܝܐ, Dairo d-Mor Ḥannanyo. Even so, this is not the most popular name, or the one you would hear people using often. — Gareth Hughes 13:35, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I just notice that the article was moved to 'Mor Hananyo Monastery' with an appeal to the highly influential Google test. Gareth the reason I did that is because it was the same reason given when it was moved from Dayro d-Mor Hananyo to Deyrülzafarân Monastery. If give alot of insite, but no solution. So what do you suggest it should be? Chaldean 15:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Even though I named the article Mor Hananyo when I created it, I think the common name Deyrülzafarân is more suitable. Google search results can in my opinion not be a trustworthy measure, because they're influenced by articles on Wikipedia and its forks. --Benne ['bɛnə] _(talk) 15:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I wanted to remark, even though Barış Tarim used that same method, that throwing words at Google is not a good nor conclusive test. In this case, the number of possible spellings of the name makes such a test difficult. It is good to talk about this before hand. Seeing that the article has once been moved already, it seems odd to move again without discussion. My insight is this: there are two varieties of names for this monastery: Mor Hannanyo and Al-Zafaran. However, there are problems marshalling the number of different possible spellings of these names. In general, most people refer to the monastery using some spelling of 'Deir al-Za`faran', and the other name seems to be reserved as a bookish equivalent to the popular nickname. I think the Turkish spelling on the signs, though influenced by the Turkish context no doubt, show an official recognition of the popular name at the least. — Gareth Hughes 15:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

So what do you suggest? Declare a name and we'll go with it. Chaldean 18:01, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe Gareth just suggested the Turkish spelling. Considering that the address of the monasterical website is http://www.deyrulzafaran.org, I think this is a good suggestion (preferably with the circumflex).

By the way, chor bishop Gabriel Aydın wrote a bilingual book about the monastery, the Turkish part being titled Deyr'ulzafaran (in the text itself, the apostrophe is left out), the Syriac part ܕܝܪܐ ܕܟܘܪܟܡܐ. --Benne ['bɛnə] _(talk) 18:30, 2 March 2007 (UTC)