Talk:Moon Knight

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[edit] Character analysis

This seems a lot like original research to me... anyone care to comment?Psyphics 18:44, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


Personally, I feel that it has a rightful place in the article. Moon Knight being a cult favorite (and often times C-list hero), a certain amount of explanation is necessary to truly give an accurate discription of the character. Hence, the "Character analysis" section. In terms of it being "original research," what has been written in that section is nothing new or ground-breaking. It's merely a collection of observations -- made by third parties and can be found anywhere on the web if you look hard enough -- that provide a more accurate portrait of Moon Knight. Personally, I've heard him being compared as a "poor man's Batman" on a number of occasions, and I felt like this (unfair) comparison gives extra weight to the understanding of Moon Knight as a character.

Bhissong 02:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)bhissong


I'm with Bhissong. When dealing with a relatively minor comic-book character like Moon Knight, there really isn't any published analysis to cite, nor is there anywhere to publish such research in the first place. The majority of the assertions here are self-evident to anyone who's read a lot of Moon Knight books. No, this isn't necessarily a satisfactory response to a charge of original research, but... come on, it's just Moon Knight.

BukkWylde 21:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking it's not OR, mainly because it's a comparison with no speculation, it merely states the similarities and differences. I don't believe it's necessarily OR, though someone seems to think it is. I'll see if I can't edit it to propriety. --Newt ΨΦ 13:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The "Character Analysis" on the Moon Knight page is not a Character Analysis, its 4 paragraphs of character bashing. I'm tired of all the "Moon Knight is a Batman rip off" talk. Until DC fans realize and accept that Deathstroke is a Taskmaster knock-off and that Black Adam is a Namor ripoff and quit deleting when people try to acknowledge those facts,I will continue to omit Sentry's superman comparison, as well as Moon Knights Batman comparison.

Ummmm...O.k., Thanos2099. First of all, it would be appropriate if you signed your handle to any comments you make. Second, it's not appropriate to delete sections of an article because you have a mad-on about issues in other charater-articles. Just something to think about. And, no, the "Character Analysis" was not "character bashing" as you write. I initiated this section (although others have added to it since then), and I am a big fan of Moon Knight. We were simply trying to add more information about the charater. Don't take it TOO personally.
Bhissong 02:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)bhissong
First off, the analysis is two paragraphs, not four. It accepts that the comparison is there and proceeds to distinguish the two. Please do not assert your opinions by deleting the article. It would be remiss of us to ignore that the comparison is there when it's widespread enough to be brought up in an interview with the current writer of the series. Anyway, the interview cited offers an excellent vehicle to both note the comparison and individuate the two characters. --Newt ΨΦ 06:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
If someone could cite the interview being paraphrased, it wouldn't be considered original research Impulse 17:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appearances

It would be a good addition to add Moon Knight's earlier appearances. There were a bunch of random ones before the first series.

[edit] Weapons in first appearance.

It's been a long time but I can remember that first appearance in Werewolf by Night. As I recall, he was just a very good fighter and had no costume or silver weapons before being hired to take down and capture Jack Russell in his werewolf form. The costume and weapons were provided to him by his employer. Was this a secret plot by Khonshu cultist to get Spector to accept the Moon Knight identity?

I'd say that's speculation at best, unless it's been retconned or explained. --Newt ΨΦ 14:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Condense Volume 4

Hey, this is a call to Newt ΨΦ and BukkWylde. You both have provided great edits to this site, and I thought I'd ask your opinion. The Volume 4 section just doubled in size, and it seems (to me, anyway) that it's just a description of the storyline. I feel like it needs to be condensed. I know it's hard because the story is still in play, but, hey, why not clip it now before it gets too unwieldy? Thoughts? Thoughts from anyone else? Bhissong 18:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)bhissong

Sorry to sneak that in there under your nose, but as you can tell, I agreed. --Newt ΨΦ 02:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original research?

When I've got some free time, I'm thinking of going back through my nearly-complete collection of Moon Knight appearances and filling out a lot of the missing character/plot details from this article.

Does anyone have a problem with this? Is this considered original research, if I draw everything from the comics and don't make any non-factual claims? Should I cite specific issues?

BukkWylde 16:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

As long as it's a simple summary, recounting what is actually shown and written, it should be fine. A bit of advice I have for you is to not go into too much detail; this is not supposed to be a substitute for reading the actual source material, and editors will condense overly long material. CovenantD 17:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Enhanced strength

The current version of the article seems to contradict (IIRC) #6 of the first series, where Spector was in a mission on a foreign country and explained to Marlene that his enhanced strength was due to Werewolf's bite and was no longer present. Luis Dantas 15:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Any thoughts on enhanced strength? Wolf bite or Moon God?

Bhissong 17:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)bhissong

I'm going to check this out along with some of my other back-issue research this weekend, but as far as I know the extra strength wasn't really played up until after Spector went back to Egypt and got his new weapons from the priests of Khonshu at the beginning of the second series. There, it was made clear the strength was from Khonshu.

BukkWylde 15:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC) I've been going through the Essential Moon Knight tpb, and there are references re: his moon related strength in his earliest appearances. In The Hulk! Magainze #15 (which was published in 1979, before the very first Moon Knight on-going series), the entire story (by Dough Moench) centers around the fact that an eclipse of the moon weakens Spector to the strength of a "normal man." Once the eclipse is over, he regains his super-strength. Now, it never explains the nature of this ability. Wolf bite or Moon God? I'd say Moon God -- but I don't have any specific info on that. Maybe BukkWylde can clear that up in his research. Bhissong 17:17, 14 July 2006 (UTC)bhissong

IIRC, at least originally the moon strength was due to him being bitten by Jack Russel, Werewolf by Night, although it may have been retconned or something. But that was the original explanation. --Jamdav86 20:09, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Bottom

Since this story is on-going, it's probably best to keep the details brief and to what we know. For example, in issue #4 it's unknown if Spector sees the ghost of Khonshu or if he's hallucinating. So, best to leave it out for know. Bhissong 23:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)bhissong

Agreed. I went ahead and left just the first line. I think it explains enough about the effect on the character for the understanding of the arc. Information about Frenchie can be put in an article about him (if one exists), as this is about Moon Knight, the character. Thoughts? --Newt ΨΦ 00:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

That makes sense. Plus, it's difficult to comment on a story that is on-going. Was the arc is finished, notes and facts can be presented in a concise fashion. But now, it's just too early. Thanks for the edit. Bhissong 01:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)bhissong

[edit] italic/bolding

I have removed some bolding and italics from the publication history. I think the bolding was unintentional but i am unsure whether the italics were appropriate or not. please feel free to correct.

Trugster 16:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe the italicized Moon Knights referred to the comic --Newt ΨΦ 17:06, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spector's Judaism

It's notable. There aren't many Jewish superheroes. --Newt ΨΦ 19:21, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

However it's not first-line notable. Let's look at the facts. Sure, he's the sone of a rabbi, meaning he's racially Jewish. However he swans about dressed like and worshiping the Egyptian god of Vengeance. Judaism has fallen by the wayside a little, don't you think? --Jamdav86 20:06, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually, he's only racially Jewish if his mother was Jewish, but agreed. I don't know that "Egyptian-themed" is first-line notable either. We don't put "Spider-themed" for Spider-Man or "Arab-themed" for Dust. Keep it in the article but remove it from first line. --NewtΨΦ 15:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Seems like a fair compromise. --Jamdav86 15:19, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, he did get his personal fortune from making wise investments. That's Jewish enough for me.

[edit] Alter Ego

Would it make more sense to put Jake Lockley and Steven Grant in the SHB's Alter Ego field since they are actual personalities (alternate egos) instead of just names he goes by from time to time? --NewtΨΦ 15:17, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

He doesn't use them anymore, so, no. If they were still in use, however, you would have a point. --Jamdav86 15:19, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
"Still in use" doesn't really make a lot of sense when the perpetual present of fictional characters is considered. The Werewolf By Night Moon Knight is just as much Moon Knight as the Huston Moon Knight Moon Knight... if that made any sense at all. This perpetual present is the reason for the removal of the "status" field from the SHB. As WP:WAF puts it:
  • Another common type of template, succession boxes, should not be used to describe in-universe relationships in articles about fictional entities. Succession boxes assume continuity, which may not exist. Even if it does exist, the fiction's creators may choose to rewrite it later, invalidating any previous canon. In-universe succession boxes cannot adapt to these situations. Furthermore, the story that each work of fiction depicts does not change despite the continuation of stories across serial works or sequels, such that the events within one work of fiction are always in the present whenever it is read, watched, or listened to. In-universe temporal designations such as current or previous are therefore inappropriate.
I'm going to post this to the SHB template talk page. --NewtΨΦ 15:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

You do that. :) --Jamdav86 15:48, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Khonshu (comics) merge proposal

InShanee tagged the Khonshu article 30-Jun-2006, suggesting that it's merged into this one. I've just added a matching tag here, for clarity. --Mrph 20:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Keep - --Mrph 20:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

  • Khonshu (comics) is a stub and needs a lot of work, but I think he does deserve an article all of his own. If you follow the link from the article to www.marvelunapp.com, the list of appearances is more that just the usual 'guiding presence' for Moon Knight - he's directly intervened at several points. --Mrph 20:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - Is he relevent outside of 'Moon Knight comics? --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 04:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Reply: Not all that often, and not as much - but he's part of Marvel's standard Egyptian pantheon, who do sometimes turn up in Thor. He's appeared in West Coast Avengers as well (although Moon Knight was a member at the time), directly appearing to characters like Dr Doom. --Mrph 08:27, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree that Khonshu could be expanded and there are certainly less important characters with their own pages, but if no one wants to expand his stub it can easily be merged into the moon knight article until such a time that knoshu's section marit's its own page Impulse 17:29, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Reply - I'm happy to have a go at the stub, if that helps - although I'm not going to have much time for a week or two. If this merge hadn't already been suggested, I'd probably have gone straight down that route. As it has, I figured it was best to formally canvas opinion first. --Mrph 21:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Expand the stub as much as you can, then we'll see about the merge then. --Jamdav86 16:47, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan. Let's see how it goes... --Mrph 19:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Good. I'll be watching. --Jamdav86 19:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Decision

Closed awaiting changes to article - I'll start work on expanding the Khonshu article and see what I can do. We can then revisit the merge debate at a later date, after that's been done. --Mrph 16:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Batman pastiche?

Hmm. Does Moon Knight really warrant inclusion in that category? Charlie Huston has commented on similarities and differences, yes, but... opinions? --Mrph 19:28, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Continuing Effort to Condense as per Wiki guidlines

Some may have noticed recent deletions in this article. As per wiki. guidelines, these articles are not to be play-by-play accounts of a charcter's history. As a result, I have deleted unnecessary information, (i.e., information that, although interesting, is not essential to the article). Over all, I have found it better to remove than to add to a superhero article. Before re-adding any information which you consider to be relavent, please discuss it on this board so that it can be decided upon as a group. Bhissong 16:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC)bhissong

While I'm inclined to agree with some of the edits, I think it would probably be a good idea to leave mention of Konshu's appearence and/or interference in Spector's life in The Bottom story arc. --63.203.5.6 23:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Forgot to sign in when I posted the above >.< --Junior612 23:50, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
And it's been re-added. Nice summary, Bhissong. --63.203.5.6 01:35, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Film?

Are they making a movie about Moon Knight? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.244.187.124 (talk) 02:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

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