Talk:Moomin

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Contents 1 Character List/Novel synopsis 2 Really written in English??? 3 Request for non-American emphasis 4 Request for philosophical quotes 5 about the "see also" section 6 Removal of Links 7 The Moomins and the Great Flood 8 Anti-virus software 9 Vandalism 10 Song 11 End of story= 12 New book 13 Suspicious information 14 Requested move 14.1 Survey 14.2 Discussion 15 Translated character names in Finnish 16 Help is needed

[edit] Character List/Novel synopsis

I've created a footer template for the English novels - see Comet in Moominland. It would be great if this and the other novel synopses could be fleshed out. Also as the list of characters is quite lengthy - suggest moving this to a separate page (List_of_Characters_In_Moomin_Books?), keeping only the main character profiles on the main page? --Katstevens 14:49, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Really written in English???

According to this article the Moomin comic strips were written in English and then translated to other languages. The can't be true, surely? I thought all the moomin stuff was written in Swedish. I've definitely seen the comics in Swedish, and it doesn't seem likely that they would be written in a foreign language and then translated to the author's mother tongue. I will remove this reference if nobody has any evidence of it being true. Unsigned comment by User:82.32.6.147

No it's true. The comics were written for the English language newspaper the London Evening News, hence they were written in English. Both Tove and especially Lars were very good at English. If you want to learn more about the Moomin comics i can recommend the book "Vid min svans! Tove och Lars Janssons tecknade muminserie" [1] which explains a lot about the comics (sadly it's only availiable in Finnish and Swedish i think). bbx 01:16, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

No, it's not true. :-) Lars was the one who translated them to English from Tove's Swedish.--Wormsie 20:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

However, they were first published in English, which I think was what the original user asked :-) The Swedish version of the comic strips are translated from English (and the drawings still contain English writing in the background, which always mystified me as a kid!)--Bonadea 12:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

It is very complicated! At first she wrote English, later she wrote swedish, Lars translated and they were lettered in England, then Lars took over and mostly wrote straight in English. If you check some originals you can see the difference.Seniorsag 16:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for non-American emphasis

I think its worth pointing out that the Moominboom never really penetrated the US, despite English translations reaching other areas. Personally I think this is a good thing. It is remarkable how few Americans have heard of Moomins, and how this relates to the fact they haven't been co-opted by large corporations. Cuvtixo 9 October 2005

[edit] Request for philosophical quotes

I really enjoyed the two quotes in the Swedish article. Could we see some typical quotes from different characters in the English version, at least on this page, but perhaps as part of the character descriptions? --Kronocide 15:40, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

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"There are four spin-off TV animation series, one Polish and three Japanese, and a large merchandising industry."

I remember watching a moomin trolls animated program which lasted for about 5 min which was shown on British television durning late afternoon childrens television in 1984. I remember that this was in english rather than Polish or Japanese. I also remember english translations of the books in South Africa in the late 1970's

There were two noably distinct Russian animations, but I don't know whether ythey wer original or translations. Mikkalai 23:28, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)

At least two of the Moomin tv series have been dubbed into English, one I remember from the 80s, and one more recently (and there may have been one in the 60s, but I'm not sure). I don't know which one is which, but that is how come you were able to see them in English. --MockTurtle 14:17, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Just a quick correction- 'Comet in Moominland' was the second book, not 'Finn Family Moomintroll'.

The removal of the note saying Stinky was a product of the Japanese anime series was right. Stinky can very much be found in the original comic books, which predate the anime series by decades. In fact, far from "inventing" the character, the Japanese simplified him, removing his stench. — JIP | Talk 10:19, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

I remember that the Hattifatteners are shown as growing from seeds in the first episode of the comic strip (where they also speak!), but is this established in the books? I haven't read them for ages, so I don't quite remember. Awahlbom 28 June 2005 14:24 (UTC) [I didn't notice that I had been logged out when I wrote this originally. Awahlbom 21:39, July 10, 2005 (UTC)]

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I thought that perhaps the original Swedish names should be added to the article.

Adding some of the missing names from memory.

Moomin- Mumin

Also called Mumintrollet in the books.

Moominpapa - Muminpappa

Moominmama - Muminmamma

Sniff - Sniff

The Muskrat - ?

Bisamråttan

Snufkin - Snusmumriken

The Snork Maiden - Snorkfröken

The Snork - Snorken

The Hemulen - Hemulen

Also, non-Swedish speakers should note that the "-en" in "hemulen" is the definite article; the Swedish singular is "hemul".

The Groke - Mårran

Little My - Lilla My

Too-Ticky - Too-Ticki

Stinky - Stinky (His name comes from the English word, even in the Swedish version)

Hattifatteners - Hattifnattar

Spelled "hatifnattar" in the books.

This is a really bad translation of their name to English. The Swedish name comes from a colloquial verb, "hattifnatta," which means to run back and forth aimlessly and behave irrationally. "Få fnatt" basically means go nuts. It's obviously a fitting name for these odd creatures. But "hattifatteners" make it sound as if they are fat, or fattening, or something. A much better English name would have been Huttinutters, or something like that.

--Kronocide 19:45, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Fillyjonk - Filifjonkan

The Ancestor - Anfadern(?)

Förfadern, I think.

Misabel - Misan

Sorry-oo - ??

This could be Ynk. Need to check.

Yes, it's Ynk. FWIW; I'm not sure the translated names are interesting enough to list in the article.--CodeGeneratR 00:26, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Hope my additions help. Awahlbom 21:39, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

Qro-

Muumipeikko, Muumimamma ja Muumipappa in Finnish. Not sure about the editing though. Adding the other character names later. (unsigned)

I expressed some concerns about including translated names in a comment above (and that was Swedish, the author's language(?)), but since they seem to re-appear: Could we come up with some standard format for adding them without disrupting the rest of the content? I could imagine that once someone starts, lots of people would add translated names in their language. I'd like to see some formatting that allows the translated names to appear unobtrusively but distinct from the descriptions.--CodeGeneratR 15:56, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Suggestion 1: Adding the translated names in italics below each character description.

• Sniff - Moomintroll's immature friend and later adopted brother. He is one of the few characters who is sincrely interested in money, and is always on the lookout for another way to get rich quick.

Swedish: Sniff; Finnish: Nipsu; German: Schnüferl

• The Muskrat - a philosopher who believes in the pointlessness of things.

Swedish: Bisamråttan; Finnish: Piisamirotta; German: Bisam

Suggestion 2: Make a separate section or article for translated names of Moomin characters... Just my 2 öre. Other ideas? --CodeGeneratR 15:56, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Update some more characters, until something is decided

Thingumy and Bob - Tofslan och Vifslan

Niblings - Klippdassar(?)

Don't know if the Joxter is rådddjuret, need to check that out. 惑乱 分からん 17:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Since pretty much my first thought after finding the page was that it needed the original names along with the English translations, I went ahead and added them. I apologize if it was pre-emptive, but I do think the original should rate pretty highly in significance here, whether additional translations are added later or not. In any case, the content I added is correct and can be used if anyone decides to change to format. The capitalization may look haphazard, but this is how the names are predominantly written in the books. The reason not all names are capitalized is that most often they're really designations of what type of creature someone belongs to, and as such are not capitalized under Swedish typographical rules. There are exceptions; Snusmumriken is capitalized in most books, but there's at least one where he's not. /Per

I think it's a useful addition. I've copy edited the note about the names at the beginning, and put them in italics per our Manual of Style's guidelines for non-English words. Thanks! — Saxifrage ✎ 20:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] about the "see also" section

The section currently reads:

The short story The Littlest Jackal by Bruce Sterling, published in A Good Old-Fashioned Future, mentions the Flüüvins, child characters created by a reclusive Finland Swedish woman from the Åland islands, that have become a fad in Japan.

Oh yuck! The invented name "Flüüvins" is both ridiculous and revolting. No Scandinavian languages use the letter ü, so how would Sterling's invented caricature of Tove Jansson ever have come up with a name like that? I'm not familiar with the short story in question (it could be a satire on what I'm ranting about), but from the name alone, Sterling appears to be willfully ingnorant and insensitive to other cultures, by not even bothering to find a believable name. People like Sterling ought to be embarrased over their ignorance, only that they're too ingnorant to understand what's embarrassing about it. It's a combination of audacity and cluelessness that really makes me go kaput.--CodeGeneratR 04:57, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Far too many Anglosaxons think one accented letter is as good as another, and pay no attention to what languages they are used in, not to mention even the vaguest guess about their pronunciation. That's what got us the Kata Kârkkâinen fiasco. — JIP | Talk 12:14, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh well. See Heavy metal umlaut. Leibniz 20:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of Links

Should the links to specific characters be removed? After all, none point to articles... St.isaac 23:50, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Moomins and the Great Flood

The article states that:

The first book, known in English as The Little Trolls and the Big Flood (original Swedish title Småtrollen och den stora översvämningen) has not yet been officially published in English.

According to this page the first Moomin book was published in english as of 2005, under the title "The Moomins and the Great Flood." But I can't find it on amazon or like places. Does anyone have more info on this?

The anniversary English translation was published by a Finnish or Swedish company, I believe. I think it's on the German Amazon. Drjon 13:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-virus software

The finnish IT security company F-Secure has just published an anti-virus software with Moomin-themed graphical skin. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.70.32.136 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Vandalism

The article on moomins is written in poor English, has a lot of false information in it and above all contains foul language and inaproppriate comments like "Sniff is a ex-drug rehab patient" and "Little Bi - She is a small, determined and fiercely independent bisexual. When she wants something, she gets it straight away..... strapping on her 12" piece to give mooinpapa what he deserves".

I seriously hope you will remove this rude article. The Moomins are something the Finns take a lot of pride in. Having an article like this in Wikipedia is shameful.Please remove it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.161.50.228 (talk • contribs) 21:55, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted the misinformation on here. Someone obviously vandalised it and others failed to notice it. -- jeffthejiff 21:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Song

Does anyone know where I could find the song from the TV-series? Preferably without the volcals.

Which TV-series? The 90s Japanese animation? Shouldn't be too hard to find, I think? Doesn't the end of every show featuring the song w/o vocals, btw? Possibly on some old Japanese karaoke disc or something, as well... 惑乱 分からん 23:54, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] End of story=

I'm sorry if this may spoil the story for any of you, but my sister 'revealed' to me the ending of the whole story of the Moomins, but I don't believe what she says. If anyone's read the end, please confirm if this is true or not! I'll write what she said in stike-out text, in case if it might spoil it.

My sister says that at the end of the book, Moominpappa goes mad and shoots the family. Is this true, or wishful thinking??

No, that is completely untrue. Nothing even remotely like it happens in any of the books, nor the comic strips.--Bonadea 09:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New book

I don't really know enough on the topic to throw this in properly but there is a new book out in October 2006: Moomin Book One: The Complete Tove Jansson Comic Strip ISBN 1894937805 - details and samples. (Emperor 20:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Suspicious information

Some anonymous editor added this information, which I remain skeptical to:

The theme tune for the television series was originally "The Moomins" 
but then it was replaced with "True" by Spandau Ballet.

惑乱 分からん 00:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translated character names in Finnish

I believe that the names of the characters in Finnish should not be given. The original character names were Swedish, so it makes sense for these to be given. If we are going to give Finnish, surely we have to also give the translated names in all other languages that the books have been translated in. What do other people think? 94pjg 00:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Tove Janson is a Finnish writer so I don't think finnish translations are completely out of place. Her work is also most well known in Finland.

Since she was translated to English (and I think Japanese before she was published in Finnish I think that Finnish caracter names is unnessesary, specially as she is far more published in Japanese and English. ALSO she is a Swedish writer, remember that Swedish is a motherlanguage in Finland since at least 1AD. (Finland was an integral part of sweden until 1809 when it became a Grand Duchy under Russia.)Seniorsag 16:35, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Seniorsag (well perhaps not that Swedish was so established in 1 AD). If Tove Jansson was an English speaking Montreal resident, I would not expect the French names to be given in every article about her book's characters because French is the majority language in her home province. Certainly Tove Jansson is Finnish, but Swedish is as much a language of Finland as Finnish is. It almost seems to belittle this fact and give the impression that Swedish is a foreign language in Finland when we put the Finnish character names as well. Moomintrolls are also very popular in their Japanese translations. Should we also give their Japanese names? 94pjg 18:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

If Tove Jansson was a French speaking resident of Toronto, I WOULD expect the English names to be given in most articles about her book's characters because English is the majority language in her country. Swedish is really a foreign language in Finland to vast majority of people. Its only an official language by law. There are more native russian speakers in Finland than there are swedish speakers.

There are not more native Russian speakers in Finland than Swedish speakers. That is not at all true, perhaps in the longterm future it may well be, but not yet. Swedish is not a foreign language in Finland and it is an official language by law and also in practice. 94pjg 21:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Swedish is most certainly not a foreign language in Finland, and for Wikipedia to support this kind of lingual oppression from the side of the Finnish-speaking majority would be utterly wrong. Wikipedia do not give also Flemish translations when relating to Francophone Belgian authors, does it? 80.251.207.19 18:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

>>"... remember that Swedish is a motherlanguage in Finland since at least 1AD." My recollection is that there were no Swedes, no Sweden, and no Swedish language in 1AD, but I'll concede that it's been a while. Langrel 18:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help is needed

I'm tring to make a better wiki article for Moomin (1990 TV series), all Moomin fans of the series are welcome to come over there and help contribute their knowldge. Acidburn24m 11:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)