Talk:Monster Manual

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[edit] Monster differences

Would like a list of changes to some creatures made in different editions, such as 3rd edition changes from 2nd edition.

[edit] Artists & Fair Use

Does anyone know the names of the artists for the original Monster Manual? I'd like to add them to the article. I know "David C. Sutherland III" was one, but I can't recall the others (I think Erol Otus did one illustration).

Also, I found several images of the cover of the manual on the Internet that could be added to the article. I know that a photo of the cover is covered under "fair use," but I don't think we can just lift images off of websites without permission, even though what the photo is of we can include. Anyone know more about this? —Frecklefoot 16:46, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, there were several different artists. I think they were credited at the back of the book.

For the cover probably the best way to go would be to have someone scan it. Someone here's bound to have a copy I think (although mine's lost, unfortunately). - Hephæstos|§ 16:56, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I know there were several artists. DCSIII was the only one I remember. The other guy had the initials "DAT," something like "D.A. Trampier" or some such thing (of course we'd need to correctly spelled name for the article). There may have been one or more incidental artists (like Erol Otis), but I know DCS and DAT did most of the artwork.

As far as the cover goes, I was hoping that we could just use one that is already out there. If someone has a copy, great, let's a scan. But my copy is long gone. —Frecklefoot 19:23, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I have a scannble copy, just been dragging feet on image uploading until the combined flames of server hell (10th level, ruled by Rebbiv Noirb) and image markup hell subside. Stan 19:38, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Woo-hoo! Can you also find the names of the artists? I think one or two scans of a few of the interior illustrations would also fall under "fair use." My favorite, IIRC, is the "Pseudo Dragon." :) —Frecklefoot 19:51, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

This is a nice image from an eBay listing. What permissions would we need to use it? there's no creative presentation or interpretation there, just a scan.... Catherine 20:11, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, I know it is just a scan. Since it is an eBay listing, it probably would incur less trouble than something from a permanent web site. But if you look up the full-size image (Monster Manual cover), it is actually kinda crappy. I mean, that book is beat up. If Stan's copy is in better condition, I'd vote to use his scan (when he gets around to it). What do you say, Stan? Is your copy in better condition? —Frecklefoot 21:04, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Almost mint condition, ahem. (Acquired a bunch of D&D material in the early 80s, but never actually played much.) Not one of the rare editions though, oh well. Stan 23:01, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Rare editions? As long as it has the cheesy are on the cover (complete with the neckless red dragon--see the link in my above post), that's all we need. :-) —Frecklefoot 23:05, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

An actual first edition is monetarily valuable, but mine is a "4th Edition, August 1979" according to the title page. At some point somebody should go through and elucidate the various editions of the first manual, it's apparently a little complicated from what I remember seeing on some website. Stan 14:15, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I see. Mine was pre-4th edition, but probably not a true first edition since I got into D&D pretty late (compared to my friends). Mine didn't have the little wizard in the bottom right corner and I remember that was an artifact of later editions. Aside from that, I couldn't tell the difference. You'd think they would have at least replaced the dreadful cover! :-) Thanks for posting that image. The only change I made was to format the image so the caption showed. —Frecklefoot 18:18, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Variations of the Early Editions

I know some started discussing this in the Artists and Fair Use thread, but I thought it was a topic unto itself. I would like to hear more about the true first (couple of) printing(s) of the first edition.

For example, on ebay right now is a truely beat up copy that does not have the yellow band actoss the upper left corner. It does say "Advanced Dungeouns & Dragons" centered across the top. Does anyone have a copy of this to shoot a picture of?