Talk:Monosodium glutamate/archive1

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New Material

The following information should be added. I'm not willing to be responsible for the maintanence, as this is out of my main area, but the information seems important. meatclerk 08:59, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The following link to an FAO report mentions that Chinese-Restaurant syndrome is aka Kwok's disease

the following article indicates that kwoks disease doesn´t seemed to caused by msg http://allergies.about.com/library/blificmsgmyth11.htm

I'm befuddled why you injected this information.

  1. I did not assert that MSG causes CRS. That is a seperate subject.
  2. I only stated that CRS is aka (also known as) Kwok's disease.
  3. The linked article is short-sighted and bias. about.com is notorious for producing incorrection information.
  4. I don't see the information as relavent. It is not autoritative.

meatclerk 09:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The following links (USDA:FSIS) answers specific questions on MSG with regards to labels using the term "natural flavoring(s)"

Contradictory statements

  • It was first discovered and patented by Japanese researcher Kikunae Ikeda in 1907.
  • MSG was first isolated in 1908 by Kikune Ikeda of the Tokyo Imperial University, who successfully crystallized the substance out of seaweed broth.

Don't these two statements conflict? How could he patent it before he had isolated it? Which is the correct statement? [maestro] 07:46, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This appears to have been resolved by an edit by 65.96.126.20 on 26 Feb 2005 --69.214.227.51 04:35, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Tg vs metric tons

I changed 1.5 Tg to 1.5 million metric tons... If teragrams are the accepted unit for measuring the world spice economy, then the 1.5 Tg probably requires some clarification. Many users probably wouldn't understand the use of Tg, even if they could understand what a teragram is. Furthermore, teragram doesn't appear anywhere else in Wikipedia... perhaps we need a page of SI measures other than kg, meter, etc.

--Erik Garrison 04:35, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

"Metric tons" are "tonnes" :) --219.89.177.157 22:15, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Only if you're british :-}

Article title: "Sodium glutamte" or "Monosodium glutamate" ?

True or false: this article belongs at Sodium glutamte. 66.32.244.69 01:55, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)


true; technically, the prefix "mono" is an improper usuage, and should just go by sodium glutamate. the prefix mono (or any other numerical descriptor) is only used in purely organic compound with only covalent bonds. with the addition of sodium, the compound is no longer purely organic, and more importantly, the bond it shares with the rest of the molecule is ionic. also, concerning the IUPAC name of the molecule, i beleive the name that is listed is incorrect, and frankly, incohernet (assuming that the picture of the molecule is accurate). its name should be "4-amine sodium pentanoate 5-carboxylic acid". that is the proper IUPAC name.


False. Why would you want to put it there (assuming it was spelled correctly as 'sodium glutamate')? Monosodium glutamate is its commonly accepted scientific name.
I don't know enough about chemistry to know why chemists use the "mono-" prefix in this case and not in, say, "sodium chloride". But whether or not there they're being consistent in the naming convention, our job is to use the generally-used name. --Saforrest 21:34, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)
I believe this is to differentiate monosodium glutamate from disodium glutamate, as it looks like two carboxylic acid moieties can both lose their hydrogens to gain a net 2- charge which can then be quenched with a pair of sodium atoms, though it doesn't look as favourable Snarfevs 04:42, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I have confirmed this to be the case. Disodium glutamate is also used as a food additive, probably with near identical effects. Snarfevs 04:49, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Outdated Sodium glutamte redirects to Monosodium glutamate. --meatclerk 18:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Keenan Pepper, please note: Once the save page button is hit, and the system registers the new page. it is archived and recoverable (ala history button). I assumed that you knew that, Do you? If not, did you mean something beyond that? As you may note, I am archiving any items removed from the article page and not the discussion page. --meatclerk 04:03, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

"Alternative medicine..." graf

I am concerned about the "some in alternative medicine consider to be a potent neurotoxin" graf. A quick search has revealed not a single controlled study that demonstrates any link between MSG and retardation, which in my mind causes this to be a spurious allegation; but at the same time one of the premises of "alternative medicine" is that the very idea of the controlled scientific study is essentially a flawed methodology. as such I leave it stet, but I do wonder whether wikipedists in the sciences are permitted to consider the scientific method an authoritative means of truth without losing NPOV. --Collabi 11:47, Sep 21, 2004 (PDT)

A very good point; alternative medicine typically does not make its claims based on science and experiments that can be re-created with consistently reproducible results, so I don't know why their claims should be in an scientific article unless it generated significant controversy enough to influence society as a whole (such as creationists badgering evolutionists all the time) --I run like a Welshman 22:26, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Where, pray tell, did you find a list of premises for this universal entity to which you refer as "alternative medicine." Are you claiming that all alternative health practitioners have agreed on the premise that controlled scientific study is a flawed methodology? I know a number of alternative health practitioners who would have a problem dismissing scientific method in the simple minded manner you suggest (i.e. false dilemma). Maybe they weren't in on creation of the official premise you cite. Do you have the complete list of premises of this monolithic entity to which you refer as "alternative medicine"?
What I do know is that the "controls" used in experimental methods introduce the risk of a number of threats to the validity of the research design. I also know that as controls increase, the specificity of the findings tend to increase, but that the generalizability of the findings tend to decrease. This tension is always present in experimental research and it is inherently problematic. To deny these shortcomings is naive, and such naivety may tend to produce a scientific evangelical.
Given that the activity of science has become an inquiry into probabilities, certainty is never claimed because there always exists the possibility of new evidence that refutes prior findings. I wonder, in what sense do you intend to proclaim scientific method as an authoritative arbiter of truth. The scientists I have worked with wouldn't make such a claim. Can truth be uncertain?
You seem to regard scientific method as pure as the blessed virgin. I can assure you science, as it is practiced, is anything but pure, especially these days in which scientific findings are bought and sold just like any other marketable commodity.
Why would your inability to find a peer reviewed study on the Internet be sufficient evidence for you to proclaim as spurious the claims of others that MSG is a neurotoxin? Surely an Internet search is not a scientific method. But then again, maybe it is, since the method of science consists of an ad hoc collection of practices accumulated over the centuries which scientists, and others, use and abuse at their discretion, with little consistency. A good scientist is smart about her particular method of inquiry, but a good scientist knows that all that stuff they learned in school about some monolithic scientific method is wishful thinking.
It seems to me that the absence of evidence is evidence of nothing. In other words, it does not follow that the absence of controlled studies on the net is evidence of a spurious claim (i.e. non-sequitur) That scientists and their funders have not found a subject worthy of inquiry does not logically suggest any conclusion about that subject.
Perhaps it would be most enlightened to include in an article on MSG everything that is thought to be known about MSG rather than to try to exert some authority and prevent information from being disseminated. Its appropriate to indicate the basis of any claim, and to note whether or not any scientific methodology has been employed. I think it would be helpful to indicate information that has the food industry as its source, and the source of funding for the scientific research that does exist about MSG. --4.244.66.121 22:54, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
With all due respect, I ran my search through Medline and the CMU research library. I feel that to be a sufficient basis for claiming due diligence in a paper search. Collabi 02:04, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
A search on PubMed also returns no relevant studies. While I agree that a lack of evidence is not reason to dismiss a claim, the claim has not been validated, and is therefore a "spurious allegation", as the original comment pointed out. It is no more validated that my potential claim that MSG intake is related to shoe size. In fact, that claim is likely more easily supported due to a correlation between shoe size and MSG intake (infants and young children eat less food, and therefore ingest less MSG regardless of food content, generating a correlation). Calling it a "spurious allegation" did not infer that the claim was definitively incorrect, but that it has no place in the article because it is an opinion with no defined grounding.

l

Lines that were removed

this flavor is considered basic in Japanese and Chinese cooking...not discussed as much in Western cuisine...

I really doubt that MSG products are more common in Japan and China than elsewhere on Earth. It gives a mistaken impression that MSG included products are few to scarce in the west. It's also completely wrong in saying that it is basic in Japanese and Chinese cooking. Traditional Japanese and Chinese cooking goes way before MSG, and modern J & C couisine by default *don't* touch MSG. Mass-marketed non-perishable foods such as instant noodle being a different case, however this is true for Western foods such as almost all of Campbell's canned soups as well as Doritos chips. MSG were extracted and mass marketed only in recent decades. Far from being basic --69.214.227.51 03:10, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If if is naturally occurring in seaweed, couldn't MSG be considered a basic flavor? It's flavor is classified not as salty, sweet, bitter, or sour, but umami. And I know for a fact that the Japanese eat a lot of seaweed. Stevenstclair 17:03, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Generally, if one can taste the processed MSG flavor in a food, that's a sign that the food could have been prepared better. Processed MSG is not something the J&C gourmet chef would use - the idea being that a chef would be able to cook dishes that tasted wonderful with fresh, unprocessed ingredients. If being a basic flavor means 'necessary ingredient', MSG is definitely not a basic flavor. Hope that helps. If we are discussing the MSG that will occur without processing in seaweed, that MSG will also appear in "most meat and dairy products" and thus not such a large cause for concern. 67.67.252.192 02:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

In East Asia, it is sometimes included in nutritional supplements.

The part where it doesn't specify country or year where this is supposedly the case makes this passage sound very much like an urban legend. Even if it weren't, the lack of detail gives this statement very little value. Let's not feed the rumor mills. --69.214.227.51 03:10, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

! This chemical is carcinogen if eaten in big quantities. ! The famed Chio Chips Tortilla Chips contain vast quantities (23.5%) of MSG.

I could find no evidence that either of these claims are correct. BryanD 18:01, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Outdated. --meatclerk 18:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

MSG experiment with mice

There's an interesting tidbit about a mouse experiment that may shed light on the origin of the whole MSG scare over at the Japanese version of the article. I will add it later if no-one else does beforehand. Short one-liner summary for now: initial experiments with mice seemed to indicate MSG can have adverse health effects on infants, however later studies showed that MSG did not have such an effect for humans. --69.214.227.51 03:10, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Link to msgfree

The msgfree site linked on the external links section: [1] is of questionable value. It provides very little information that contain no sources and references.

Removing link.

Outdated --meatclerk 18:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Yet more MSG "no sources and references" that are of "questionable value"

REFERENCES

1. Lucas, D.R. and Newhouse, J. P. The toxic effect of sodium-L-glutamate on the inner layers of the retina. AMA Arch Ophthalmol 58: 193-201, 1957.

2. Potts, A.M., Modrell, R.W., and Kingsbury, C. Permanent fractionation of the electroretinogram by sodium glutamate. Am J Ophthalmol 50: 900-907, 1960.

3. Freedman, J.K., and Potts, A.M. Repression of glutaminase I in the rat retina by administration of sodium L-glutamate. Invest Ophthalmol 1: 118-121, 1962.

4. Freedman, J.K., and Potts, A.M. Repression of glutaminase I in rat retina by administration of sodium L-glutamate. Invest Ophthal 2: 252, 1963.

5. Hamatsu, T. Experimental studies on the effect of sodium iodate and sodium L-glutamate on ERG and histological structure of retina in adult rabbits. Acta Soc Ophthalmol Jpn 68: 1621-1636, 1964. (Abstract)

6. Hansson, H.A. Ultrastructure studies on long-term effects of MSG on rat retina. Virchows Arch [Zellpathol] 6: 1, 1970.

7. Cohen, A.I. An electron microscopic study of the modification by monosodium glutamate of the retinas of normal and "rodless" mice. Am J Anat 120: 319-356, 1967.

8. Olney, J.W. Glutamate-induced retinal degeneration in neonatal mice. Electron-microscopy of the acutely evolving lesion. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 28: 455-474, 1969.

9. Olney, J.W. Brain lesions, obesity, and other disturbances in mice treated with monosodium glutamate. Science 164: 719-721, 1969.

10. Olney, J.W., and Sharpe, L.G. Brain lesions in an infant rhesus monkey treated with monosodium glutamate. Science 166: 386-388, 1969.

11. Snapir, N., Robinzon, B., and Perek, M. Brain damage in the male domestic fowl treated with monosodium glutamate. Poult Sci 50: 1511-1514, 1971.

12. Perez, V.J. and Olney, J.W. Accumulation of glutamic acid in the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus of the infant mouse following subcutaneous administration of monosodium glutamate. J Neurochem 19: 1777-1782, 1972.

13. Arees, E.A., and Mayer, J. Monosodium glutamate-induced brain lesions in mice. Presented at the 47th Annual Meeting of American Association of Neuropathologists, Puerto Rico, June 25-27, 1971. J Neuropath Exp Neurol 31: 181, 1972. (Abstract)

14. Everly, J.L. Light microscopy examination of monosodium glutamate induced lesions in the brain of fetal and neonatal rats. Anat Rec 169: 312, 1971.

15. Olney, J.W. Glutamate-induced neuronal necrosis in the infant mouse hypothalamus. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 30: 75-90, 1971.

16. Takasaki, Y. Studies on brain lesion by administration of monosodium L-glutamate to mice. I. Brain lesions in infant mice caused by administration of monosodium L-glutamate. Toxicology 9: 293-305, 1978.

17. Holzwarth-McBride, M.A., Hurst, E.M., and Knigge, K.M. Monosodium glutamate induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus. I. Endocrine deficiency and ultrastructure of the median eminence. Anat Rec 186: 185-196, 1976.

18. Holzwarth-McBride, M.A., Sladek, J.R., and Knigge, K.M. Monosodium glutamate induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus. II Fluorescence histochemistry of catecholamines. Anat Rec 186: 197-205, 1976.

19. Burde, R.M., Schainker, B., and Kayes, J. Acute effect of oral and subcutaneous administration of monosodium glutamate on the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus in mice and rats. Nature (Lond) 233: 58-60, 1971.

20. Olney, J.W. Sharpe, L.G., Feigin, R.D. Glutamate-induced brain damage in infant primates. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 31: 464-488, 1972.

21. Abraham, R., Doughtery, W., Goldberg, L., and Coulston, F. The response of the hypothalamus to high doses of monosodium glutamate in mice and monkeys: cytochemistry and ultrastructural study of lysosomal changes. Exp Mol Pathol 15: 43-60, 1971.

22. Burde, R.M., Schainker, B., and Kayes, J. Monosodium glutamate: necrosis of hypothalamic neurons in infant rats and mice following either oral or subcutaneous administration. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 31: 181, 1972.

23. Robinzon, B., Snapir, N., and Perek, M. Age dependent sensitivity to monosodium glutamate inducing brain damage in the chicken. Poult Sci 53: 1539-1942, 1974.

24. Tafelski, T.J. Effects of monosodium glutamate on the neuroendocrine axis of the hamster. Anat Rec 184: 543-544, 1976.

Tafelski injects pregnant hamsters with an MSG dose of 8mg/gm. Average Western intake is about 3mg/person/day (in Japan they eat far more). Therefore this is a relative dosage of approximately 140,000 times the average human intake of MSG. Tafelski et al. are attempting to induce formative defects through massive doses in this experiement, not determine in vivo effects at ordinary concentration. See also: iron, vitamin D for nutrients with this effect.

25. Inouye, M. and Murakami, U. Brain lesions and obesity in mouse offspring caused by maternal administration of monosodium glutamate during pregnancy. Congenital Anomalies 14: 77-83, 1974.

26. Olney, J.W., Rhee, V. and DeGubareff, T. Neurotoxic effects of glutamate on mouse area postrema. Brain Research 120: 151-157, 1977.

27. Olney, J.W., Ho, O.L. Brain damage in infant mice following oral intake of glutamate, aspartate or cystine. Nature (Lond) 227: 609-611, 1970.

28. Lemkey-Johnston, N., and Reynolds, W.A. Incidence and extent of brain lesions in mice following ingestion of monosodium glutamate (MSG). Anat Rec 172: 354, 1972.

29. Lemkey-Johnston, N., and Reynolds, W.A. Nature and extent of brain lesions in mice related to ingestion of monosodium glutamate: a light and electron microscope study. J Neuropath Exp Neurol 33: 74-97, 1974.

30. Kenney, RA and Tidball, CS Human susceptibility to oral monosodium L-glutamate. Am J Clin Nutr. 25:140-146, 1972.

31. Frieder, B, and Grimm, VE. Prenatal monosodium glutamate (MSG) treatment given through the mother's diet causes behavioral deficits in rat offspring. Intern J Neurosci. 23:117-126,1984.

32. Gao, J, Wu, J, Zhao, XN, Zhang, WN, Zhang, YY, Zhang, ZX. [Transplacental neurotoxic effects of monosodium glutamate on structures and functions of specific brain areas of filial mice.] Sheng Li Hsueh Pao Acta Physiologica Sinica. 46:44-51,1994.


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The neonatal treatment of rats with monosodium glutamate induces morphological changes in the subfornical organ. Anat Histol Embryol. 2004 Oct;33(5):273-7.


Consequences of monosodium glutamate or goldthioglucose arcuate nucleus lesions on ethanol-induced locomotion. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2002 Oct 1;68(2):189-94.


MSG lesions decrease body mass of suckling-age rats by attenuating circadian decreases of energy expenditure. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Sep;283(3):E604-11.


Postnatal glutamate-induced central nervous system lesions alter periodontal disease susceptibility in adult Wistar rats. J Clin Periodontol. 2001 Oct;28(10):904-9.


Seasonal neuroendocrine rhythms in the male Siberian hamster persist after monosodium glutamate-induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus in the neonatal period. J Neuroendocrinol. 1998 Sep;10(9):701-12.


Neurotoxic lesions induced by monosodium glutamate result in increased adenopituitary proopiomelanocortin gene expression and decreased corticosterone clearance in rats. Neuroendocrinology. 1998 Jun;67(6):412-20.


Effects of monosodium glutamate on blood neutrophils phagocytic activity and phagocytic response in mice. Rom J Physiol. 1997 Jan-Dec;34(1-4):95-101.


Decrease of (+)-3-[125I]MK-801 binding to NMDA brain receptors revealed at puberty in rats treated neonatally with monosodium glutamate. Brain Res Dev Brain Res. 1996 Sep 2;95(2):149-56.


Neurotoxic effects of neonatal injections of monosodium L-glutamate (L-MSG) on the retinal ganglion cell layer of the golden hamster: anatomical and functional consequences on the circadian system. J Comp Neurol. 1993 Dec 1;338(1):67-82.


Depletion of hypothalamic growth hormone-releasing hormone by neonatal monosodium glutamate treatment reveals an inhibitory effect of betamethasone on growth hormone secretion in adult rats. Neuroendocrinology. 1990 Jan;51(1):85-92.


Neurotransmitters, neuropeptides and binding sites in the rat mediobasal hypothalamus: effects of monosodium glutamate (MSG) lesions. Exp Brain Res. 1989;76(2):343-68.


Neonatal treatment with monosodium glutamate increases plasma corticosterone in the rat. Neuroendocrinology. 1988 Dec;48(6):645-9.


Inflammatory edema induced by carrageenin in monosodium glutamate-treated rats. Braz J Med Biol Res. 1988;21(4):837-9.


Hypoplastic heart induced by neonatal hypothalamic lesions in mice. J Mol Cell Cardiol. 1987 Aug;19(8):741-9.


Evidence for reorganization of the neuroendocrine centres regulating pulsatile LH secretion in rats receiving neonatal monosodium-L-glutamate treatment. J Endocrinol. 1987 May;113(2):261-9.


Neurotoxin effects on oxytocin, vasopressin and somatostatin in discrete rat brain areas. Peptides. 1986 Sep-Oct;7(5):749-53. "Monosodium-L-Glutamate (MSG) produces lesions to monoaminergic and peptidergic neurons in several brain areas."

Alterations in insulin and glucagon secretion by monosodium glutamate lesions of the hypothalamic arcuate nucleus. Endocr Res. 1985;11(3-4):145-55

Reduction of pituitary GnRH receptors in immature rats treated with monosodium glutamate. Am J Physiol. 1985 Jan;248(1 Pt 1):E126-31.


Pyroglutamate kinetics and neurotoxicity studies in mice. Toxicol Lett. 1983 May;16(3-4):225-9.


Evidence that reduced growth hormone secretion observed in monosodium glutamate-treated rats is the result of a deficiency in growth hormone-releasing factor. Endocrinology. 1982 Feb;110(2):540-50.


Monosodium glutamate-induced lesions in the rat cingulate cortex. Cell Tissue Res. 1981;220(2):239-50.


Brain lesions and short-term endocrine effects of monosodium L-glutamate in goldfish, Carassius auratus. Cell Tissue Res. 1980;212(3):429-42


Direct evidence that the arcuate nucleus-median eminence tuberoinfundibular system is not of primary importance in the feedback regulation of luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone secretion in the castrated rat. Endocrinology. 1978 Jul;103(1):170-5. " Adult rats which have received monosodium-L-glutamate (MSG, 4 mg/g BW) on alternate days for the first 10 days of life manifest central nervous system lesions largely restricted to the retina and the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus in which nearly 90% of the perikarya are destroyed, leaving axons in passage intact. In animals so treated, concentrations of dopamine within the arcuate nucleus and median eminence of the hypothalamus are reduced 52% and 57%, respectively, in males and 45% and 61% in females . . ."


Studies on brain lesion by administration of monosodium L-glutamate to mice. I. Brain lesions in infant mice caused by administration of monosodium L-glutamate. Toxicology. 1978 Apr;9(4):293-305.


Late endocrine effects of administering monosodium glutamate to neonatal rats. Neuroendocrinology. 1978;26(4):220-8.


Monosodium glutamate induced lesions of the arcurate nucleus. II. Fluorescence histochemistry of catecholamines. Anat Rec. 1976 Oct;186(2):197-205


Glial changes in the progress of a chemical lesion. An electron microscopic study. J Comp Neurol. 1976 Jun 15;167(4):481-501. " The response of non-neuronal cells in the brain to monosodium glutamate (MSG) was studied in the neonatal mouse brain. Neurons rapidly degenerate in this chemically-induced lesion, and the glia reflect and respond to their early pyknosis and death. Astrocytic glia exhibit the most profound responses in the form of degenerative nuclear and cytoplasmic changes within 15 to 20 minutes after ingestion of MSG. After 6 to 12 hours, a large glial cell population, containing neuronal and synaptic debris, can be seen. Recovery of severely damaged astrocytes is unlikely."

Monosodium L-glutamate-induced convulsions: temporary alteration in blood-brain barrier permeability to plasma proteins. Environ Physiol Biochem. 1975;5(6):389-95


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1 Garattini, S. Evaluation of the neurotoxic effects of glutam- ic acid. In: Nutrition and the Brain Vol 4, Wurtman, R.J. Ed. New York: Raven Press, 1979.

2 Lynch, J.F., Jr., Lewis, L.M., and Adkins, J.S. (Division of Nutrition, FDA, Washington, D.C. 20204). Monosodium glutamate-induced hyperglycemia in weanling rats. J S Fed Proc 31: 1477, 1971.

3 Kenney, R.A. and Tidball, C.S. Human susceptibility to oral monosodium L-glutamate. Am J Clin Nutr 25: 140-146, 1972.

4 Lucas, D.R. and Newhouse, J. P. The toxic effect of sodium-L- glutamate on the inner layers of the retina. AMA Arch Ophthalmol 58: 193-201, 1957.

5 Himwich, H.E., Wolff, K., Hunsicker, A.L. and Himwich, W.A. Some behavioral effects associated with feeding sodium glutamate to patients with psychiatric disorders. J Nerv & Mental Disease 121: 40-49, 1955.

6 Pond, E.A., and Pond, M.H. Glutamic acid and its salts in petit mal epilepsy. J Mental Sci 97: 663, 1951.

7 Walshe, J.M. The effect of glutamic acid on the coma of hepatic failure. Lancet 1: 1075, 1953.

8 Alexander, R.W., Berman, E, and Balfour, D.C. Jr. Relationship of glutamic acid and blood ammonia to hepatic coma. Gastroenterology 29: 711-718, 1955.

9 Arees, E., Sandrew, B., and Mayer, J. MSG-induced optic pathway lesions in infant mice following subcutaneous injection. Fed Proc 30: 521, 1971.

10 Olney, J.W. Brain lesions, obesity, and other disturbances in mice treated with monosodium glutamate. Science 164: 719-721, 1969.

11 Olney, J.W., and Sharpe, L.G. Brain lesions in an infant rhesus monkey treated with monosodium glutamate. Science 166: 386- 388, 1969.

12 Snapir, N., Robinzon, B., and Perek, M. Brain damage in the male domestic fowl treated with monosodium glutamate. Poult Sci 50: 1511-1514, 1971.

13 Perez, V.J. and Olney, J.W. Accumulation of glutamic acid in the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus of the infant mouse following subcutaneous administration of monosodium glutamate. J Neurochem 19: 1777-1782, 1972.

14 Arees, E.A., and Mayer, J. Monosodium glutamate-induced brain lesions: electron microscopic examination. Science 170: 549-550, 1970.

15 Arees, E.A., and Mayer, J. Monosodium glutamate-induced brain lesions in mice. Presented at the 47th Annual Meeting of American Association of Neuropathologists, Puerto Rico, June 25-27, 1971. J Neuropath Exp Neurol 31: 181, 1972. (Abstract)

16 Everly, J.L. Light microscopy examination of monosodium glutamate induced lesions in the brain of fetal and neonatal rats. Anat Rec 169: 312, 1971.

17 Olney, J.W. Glutamate-induced neuronal necrosis in the infant mouse hypothalamus. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 30: 75-90, 1971.

18 Takasaki, Y. Studies on brain lesion by administration of monosodium L-glutamate to mice. I. Brain lesions in infant mice caused by administration of monosodium L-glutamate. Toxicology 9: 293-305, 1978.

19 Holzwarth-McBride, M.A., Hurst, E.M., and Knigge, K.M. Monosodium glutamate induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus. I. Endocrine deficiency and ultrastructure of the median eminence. Anat Rec 186: 185-196, 1976.

20 Holzwarth-McBride, M.A., Sladek, J.R., and Knigge, K.M. Monosodium glutamate induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus. II Fluorescence histochemistry of catecholamines. Anat Rec 186: 197- 205, 1976.

21 Paull, W.K., and Lechan, R. The median eminence of mice with a MSG induced arcuate lesion. Anat Rec 180: 436, 1974.


22 Burde, R.M., Schainker, B., and Kayes, J. Acute effect of oral and subcutaneous administration of monosodium glutamate on the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus in mice and rats. Nature (Lond) 233: 58-60, 1971.

23 Olney, J.W. Sharpe, L.G., Feigin, R.D. Glutamate-induced brain damage in infant primates. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 31: 464- 488, 1972.

24 Burde, R.M., Schainker, B., and Kayes, J. Monosodium gluta- mate: necrosis of hypothalamic neurons in infant rats and mice following either oral or subcutaneous administration. J Neuropat- hol Exp Neurol 31: 181, 1972.


25 Robinzon, B., Snapir, N., and Perek, M. Age dependent sensi- tivity to monosodium glutamate inducing brain damage in the chicken. Poult Sci 53: 1539-1942, 1974.

26 Tafelski, T.J. Effects of monosodium glutamate on the neuro- endocrine axis of the hamster. Anat Rec 184: 543-544, 1976.

27 Inouye, M. and Murakami, U. Brain lesions and obesity in mouse offspring caused by maternal administration of monosodium glutamate during pregnancy. Congenital Anomalies 14: 77-83, 1974.

28 Olney, J.W., Rhee, V. and DeGubareff, T. Neurotoxic effects of glutamate on mouse area postrema. Brain Research 120: 151-157, 1977.

29 Olney, J.W., Ho, O.L. Brain damage in infant mice following oral intake of glutamate, aspartate or cystine. Nature (Lond) 227: 609-611, 1970.

30 Lemkey-Johnston, N., and Reynolds, W.A. Incidence and extent of brain lesions in mice following ingestion of monosodium glutamate (MSG). Anat Rec 172: 354, 1972.

31 Takasaki, Y. Protective effect of mono- and disaccharides on glutamate-induced brain damage in mice. Toxicol Lett 4: 205-210, 1979.

32 Takasaki, Y. Protective effect of arginine, leucine, and preinjection of insulin on glutamate neurotoxicity in mice. Toxicol Lett 5: 39-44, 1980.

33 Lemkey-Johnston, N., and Reynolds, W.A. Nature and extent of brain lesions in mice related to ingestion of monosodium gluta- mate: a light and electron microscope study. J Neuropath Exp Neurol 33: 74-97, 1974.

34 Olney, J. W. Brain damage and oral intake of certain amino acids. In: Transport Phenomena in the Nervous System: Physiological and Pathological Aspects Levi, G., Battistin, L., and Lajtha, A. Eds. New York: Plenum Press, 1976. also Advances in Experimental Medicine and Biology 69: 497-506, 1976.

35 Nagasawa, H., Yanai R., and Kikuyama, S. Irreversible inhibi- tion of pituitary prolactin and growth hormone secretion and of mammary gland development in mice by monosodium glutamate admin- istered neonatally. Acta Endocrinol 75: 249-259, 1974.

36 Nemeroff, C.B., Grant, L.D., Bissette, G., Ervin, G.N., Harrell, L.E., and Prange, A.J., Jr. Growth, endocrinological and behavioral deficits after monosodium L-glutamate in the neonatal rat: Possible involvement of arcuate dopamine neuron damage. Psychoneuroendocrinology 2: 179-196, 1977.

37 Nemeroff, C.B., Konkol, R.J., Bissette, G., Youngblood, W., Martin, J.B., Brazeau, P., Rone, M.S., Prange, A.J. Jr., Breese, G.R. and Kizer, J.S. Analysis of the disruption in hypothalamic- pituitary regulation in rats treated neonatally with monosodium glutamate (MSG): Evidence for the involvement of tuberoinfundib- ular cholinergic and dopaminergic systems in neuroendocrine regulation. Endocrinology 101: 613-622, 1977.

38 Pizzi, W.J., Barnhart, J.E., and Fanslow, D.J. Monosodium glutamate administration to the newborn reduces reproductive ability in female and male mice. Science 196: 452-454, 1977.

39 Tafelski, T.J. and Lamperti, A.A. The effects of a single injection of monosodium glutamate on the reproductive neuroendo- crine axis of the female hamster. Biol Reprod 17: 404-411, 1977.

40 Holzwarth, M.A., and Hurst, E.M. Manifestations of monosodium glutamate (MSG) induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus of the mouse. Anat Rec 178: 378, 1974.


41 Lynch, J.F. Jr., Lewis, L.M., Hove, E.L., and Adkins, J.S. Division of Nutrition, FDA, Washington, D.C. 20204. Effect of monosodium L-glutamate on development and reproduction in rats. Fed Proc 29: 567Abs, 1970.

42 Bhagavan, H.N., Coursin, D.B., and Stewart, C.N. Monosodium glutamate induces convulsive disorders in rats. Nature (London) 232: 275-276, 1971.

43 Nemeroff, C.B., and Crisley, F.D. Monosodium L-glutamate induced convulsions: temporary alteration in blood-brain barrier permeability to plasma proteins. Environ Physiol Biochem 5: 389- 395, 1975.

44 Nemeroff, C.B. Monosodium glutamate-induced neurotoxicity: review of the literature and call for further research. In: Nutrition & Behavior Miller, S.A., Ed. Philadelphia: The Franklin Institute Press, 1981.

45 Olney, J.W., Labruyere, J., and DeGubareff, T. Brain damage in mice from voluntary ingestion of glutamate and aspartate. Neurobehav Toxicol 2: 125-129, 1980.

46 Olney, J.W., Ho, O.L., Rhee, V., and DeGubareff, T. Neurotoxic effects of glutamate. New Engl J. Med 289: 1374-1375, 1973.

47 Ebert, A.G. Chronic toxicity and teratology studies of monosodium L-glutamate and related compounds. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 17: 274, 1970.


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This entire section was added by an annyomous IP with no reason (other than the section header) and looked to be FUD otherwise. (IP was 69.158.99.58) --meatclerk 18:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Points for the anti-MSG side

My exposure to the MSG debate comes primarily from online discussions with one individual, so I don't have citable sources for these allegations. But the article seems to me to overstate the weakness of the anti-MSG side of the controversy, by leaving out their most credible allegations. (Not that the anti-MSG side isn't fairly weak, imo, but the article appears to me to make it sound even weaker than it really is.)

  1. The exitotoxic effects of MSG are alleged to occur in the hypothalamus, from which the blood-brain barrier is absent. (It has to be, so that the hypothalamus can monitor the levels of hormones and metabolites for homeostatic regulation.)
  2. Commercial food-grade MSG is alleged to contain a varying but substantial fraction of the D isomer, which may be responsible for some of the putative ill effects. Laboratory-grade glutamate, on the other hand, seems likely to be pure L-glutamate.
  3. It seems implausible that the putative ill effects of MSG would be due to allergy: it's not the right type of substance to elicit an allergic reaction. Allergic reactions are elicited by peptides after intracellular processing (and thus by the proteins from which the peptides are cleaved), or (as in the case of urushiol from poison ivy) by small molecules that bind to them at any stage of the antigen-presentation process and render them "foreign" to the T cells even though the original peptide is a normal self antigen. An amino acid normally present in lower quantities seems very unlikely to do this. Therefore I find it suspicious that the safety testing focused on allergy rather than excitotoxicity or components other than pure L-glutamate.

dsws 00:05, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Re #3: most testing didn't focus on allergy; a few did. There are others that look at excitotoxicity and general ill effects in vivo.


Just a little note; the part about alleged mixing of L/D-forms of glutamate seem a bit dubious, since it is produced by a microorganism and the synthesis is thus specific with respect to only one form. Now, it might be isomerized by later processing, but I would look into that further before putting any of this into an edit. --193.11.220.45 13:11, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Health Concerns Inaccuracies & NPOV

Lots of great research put into the article. But there are some issues I would like to raise:

1) "A considerable amount of research and testing into MSG allergies has been performed over the past few decades, and the vast majority of controlled studies show no link at all between glutamate in food and any allergic reaction. Critics of the testing believe that the tests were unfairly biased towards finding no result. In particular, they consider flawed a 1993 study in which aspartame was used in the placebo, because aspartame itself has been accused of causing many of the same symptoms as MSG sensitivity in susceptible people."

There were many studies that found reactions to MSG. The concern was not only that 1993 study. A letter [2], [3] from the head of the International Glutamate Technical Committee revealed that MSG industry studies since 1978 through approx. 1993 had aspartame hidden in the drink mixture given to the "control group." While the letter was written in 1991, persons involved in the MSG issue didn't become aware of it until 1993. The use of aspartame was not reported in any of the papers published by the MSG industry-funded researchers. Not only are some reported aspartame reactions similar to reported MSG reactions [4], but 40% of aspartame is an excitotoxin (aspartic acid). Testing the effects of an excitotoxin and giving an excitotoxin to the control group renders the experiments useless. This was just one of the concerns. Of course, to keep it NPOV and scientific, references and presenting both sides would be crucial, IMO.

2) "While the worries of the general public over the content of MSG in foods reached near hysterical levels in the 1980s, interest in the issue has since almost completely abated and today there is generally very little concern over MSG content of foods."

There has been no measurement of "MSG content" concern as far as I know. Presenting conern as "hysterical" is obviously NPOV.

3) "Nonetheless, there are still some small groups (especially those in alternative medicine) who consider MSG to be a potent neurotoxin which is yielding mass neurological retardation in affected populations. Although glutamate is an excitotoxin if certain neurons are exposed to very high doses, and can be used to produce an obesity syndrome in rats, [4], [5], the idea that it has any comparable effects in its normal use as a food additive is looked upon by mainstream scientists as being pseudoscientific since there is no conclusive scientific data that support the claims."

NPOV and inaccurate. A 1990 conference of the Society for Neuroscience produced a split of opinions on this issue [5]. Independent reviewers often present both sides (e.g., [6], [7], ) and never refer to the issue as "pseudoscience." Alternative Medicine has nothing to do with the issue since it has been Neuroscientists who have always been at the forefront of this issue (on both sides of the issue). One of the concerns is research showing that equivalent doses of excitotoxins produce much higher plasma levels in humans than in rodents, so one cannot simply look at the mg/kg dose given to the animals. [8]

4) "The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists monosodium glutamate as "generally recognized as safe", along with salt, vinegar, baking powder, and sodium tripolyphosphate."

What does salt, vinegar, etc. have to do with anything? The FDA was required by law to consider MSG as generally recognized as safe (GRAS) since it had been in use before 1958. [9] But I'm not sure what salt and vinegar has to do with anything.

5) "Food products from Australia and New Zealand may refer to MSG as "flavour enhancer 621". The EU food additive code for MSG is E621. 29224220 is the HS code of monosodium glutamate. The free glutamic acid component of MSG may also be present in a wide variety of other additives, including hydrolyzed vegetable proteins, soy extracts, and natural flavourings."

May not belong in the Health Concerns section.

Twoggle 02:25, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)


Agreed. Glutamic acid is the most common amino acid in any food that naturally contains any protein. MSG is just glutamic sodium salt. Heck, it is easily by the addition of table salt (NaCl) to any broth, be it meat, vegatable, or seaweed. It should be noted however that (1) Too much glutamic acid in the blood stream can cause blood vessels to constrict, hence thrist after eating foods containing high amounts of MSG (or maybe this is because of the sodium??) and (2) too much of anything is toxic (so alternative "medicine" is not altogether wrong). I think the wording of the section just need rephrasing and "de-extremifying". -- Sjschen 04:48, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
Good points. Also, it would probably benefit the reader to read a short discussion of the scientific literature showing the changes (e.g., spike) in plasma glutamic acid from added MSG as opposed to naturally occurring glutamic acid (usually bound in protein) in foods. Not that such a spike automatically makes it bad, but at least the reader can see that there has been proven differences in biochemical changes from eating MSG as opposed to meat or tomatoes for example. Anything to make it more accurate, NPOV and de-extremifying is probably a good thing. I'll propose some ideas to see what people think. Twoggle 17:29, 25 September 2005 (UTC)


Okay, here are some of my general suggests for the Health Concerns section (to be followed by a more detailed suggestions later):
1. It will be much easier and clearer to the reader if the section is broken down into two subsections of concerns that are quite separate issues: a) MSG intolerance - mild to severe acute reactions 0 to 48 hours after ingesting MSG; b) MSG and excitotoxins - potentially damaging effects on cells (esp. nervous system cells) from acute or chronic exposure to MSG. Also add a subsection on MSG Metabolism. All of the health effects controversy begins with what all scientists agree is the differences in biochemical changes from ingesting added MSG and that of glutamic acid from foods. Most, but not all of these experiments have been done by the MSG industry and there is some consensus in this area ... as can be demonstrated.
2. "Nonetheless, there are still some small groups (especially those in alternative medicine) who consider MSG to be a potent neurotoxin which is yielding mass neurological retardation in affected populations." This sentence has to be reworded in light of the fact that the Society of Neuroscience convened a meeting to discuss effects of food-based excitotoxins and there was a split of opinion on either side. Also, one could easily take it as a put-down and it's certainly not NPOV.
3. I would change the main heading to "Health effects controversy" to more accurately signify that there is a controversy over health effects.
4. "While the worries of the general public over the content of MSG in foods reached near hysterical levels in the 1980s, interest in the issue has since almost completely abated and today there is generally very little concern over MSG content of foods." This sentence is not accurate and is not NPOV with the use of the term "hysterical"
5. If one organization is listed as claiming either safety or non-safety, I suggest balancing it with a statement from an organization on the other side. That keeps it relatively NPOV. It is especially a good idea since there is no consensus in the independent scientific community that focuses specifically on this issue.
So maybe starting with something like what is below and then gradually making it more NPOV and add more balanced scientific information over time:
----
Health effects controversy
MSG Intolerances
There have been reports of allergies and/or sensitivities to MSG, sometimes attributed to the free glutamic acid component, which has been blamed for causing a wide variety of physical symptoms such as migraines, nausea, digestive upsets, drowsiness, heart palpitations, asthma, anaphylactic shock, and a myriad of other complaints. "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" is often used as an example of the symptoms purported to be caused by MSG.
However, a considerable amount of research and testing into MSG allergies has been performed over the past few decades, and the vast majority of controlled studies show no link at all between glutamate in food and any allergic reaction. Critics of the testing believe that the tests were unfairly biased towards finding no result. In particular, they consider flawed a 1993 study in which aspartame was used in the placebo, because aspartame itself has been accused of causing many of the same symptoms as MSG sensitivity in susceptible people. Some researchers have suggested that specific individuals might be hypersensitive to MSG while others are entirely unaffected by it, but no conclusive results have emerged to demonstrate the validity of this hypothesis.
Excitotoxins
Nonetheless, there are still some groups who consider MSG to be a potent neurotoxin which is yielding mass neurological retardation in affected populations. Although glutamate is an excitotoxin if certain neurons are exposed to very high doses, and can be used to produce an obesity syndrome in rats, [10], [11], the idea that it has any comparable effects in its normal use as a food additive is looked upon by mainstream scientists as being pseudoscientific since there is no conclusive scientific data that support the claims.
The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists monosodium glutamate as "generally recognized as safe", along with salt, vinegar, baking powder, and sodium tripolyphosphate.
Twoggle
Created separate subsections under Health Concerns:
MSG Intolerance -- Purported acute reactions to MSG cannot be an "allergy" (IgE or IgG related reaction) due to the makeup of the chemical. But reactions could possibly be a food intolerance reaction.
Excitotoxicity -- Separate health issue from MSG Intolerance issue that has been debated for decades.
Twoggle 03:42, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
It seems to me that the "MSG in Dairy" section is a little activist-ish. In particular, I'm skeptical of the following claim: "It is believed by many that if the dairy industry would eliminate the use of processed free glutamic acid (MSG) from dairy products, reports of lactose intolerance would drop dramatically, and dairy sales would increase." If this were truly believed by many, even incorrectly believed by many, then the industry would adapt. Not because it would be moral or immoral, but because selling more product while simultaneously spending less on additives would be good business. You may have evidence which proves this line of reasoning invalid, but your claim is counter-intuitive enough that it won't stand without it. Also this wrt to misidentificaiton of lactose intollerance. ((User:unregistered))

I would like to see some clarification of these two statements:

A 1992 report from the Council on Scientific Affairs of the American Medical Association stated that glutamate in any form has not been shown to be a "significant health hazard".

What does it take to become a "significant" health hazard?

Among the report's key findings: An unknown percentage of the population may react to MSG...

An unknown percentage would be anywhere between 0 and 100. So, according to this report 100% of the population may react to MSG.....

Yeast

Shouldn't some mention be made about tortula yeast and hydrolyzed yeast? These indicate MSG has been added to a food (AFAIK) 66.75.49.213 02:47, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

There's a list of about 20 different names for free gluatmic acid containing additives, including hydrolyzed yeast - many of which are in foods labeled "NO MSG" even. One wonders why the industry is so desperate to hide MSG on the ingredients list if it's so safe and uncontroversial. — ceejayoz talk 23:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Alternate label names should probably be mentioned, especially the name that when used can contain a significant percentage of "MSG." In the U.S., the FDA claims that they will not allow a company to put "No MSG" on the label if their are hydrolyzed proteins in the ingredients list.Twoggle 03:46, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Maybe because of consumer hysteria? BTW, normal cooking can quite easily produce MSG. This is one of the reasons requiring hydrolysed proteins to be identified on labels is rather stupid... Nil Einne 04:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
There's radiation all around us, but that doesn't mean eating a ball of pure plutonium is safe. Dosage matters. — ceejayoz talk 15:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Japanese vs Chinese

I saw an interesting comment on usenet that would be useful to include if it can be backed up... Supposedly the number of people who report problems after eating at Japanese restaurants (we're talking about the US here of course) has always been rather low compared to Chinese restaurants despite the fact Japanese restaurants generally use more MSG then Chinese restaurants. If so, this would give strong credibility to the claim most sufferers are in fact reporting psychosomatic conditions or perhaps conditions caused by some other ingredient common in Chinese restaurants but not Japanese Nil Einne 04:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

MSG "broken down"

I removed the sentence claiming that "60% of MSG is broken down to Glutamic Acid". I am not quite sure where that 60% comes from, though. Either way, it's not really a breakdown reaction, as MSG is simply the sodium salt of glutamic acid, and the sodium dissociates naturally in solution. The amount of glutamate that will exist as the glutamate ion, and the amount that will exist as the acid (i.e. the protonated form) simply depend on the pH. --Slashme 07:10, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Outdated. --meatclerk 18:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed Dispute tag

I think the latest edits by Twoggle are good enough that we can remove the dispute tag. The article now clearly states both sides of the debate. --Slashme 07:38, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I added the inaccuracies tag back just for the MSG Intolerance section as the section does not accurately represent either side and is slightly POV ... at least in my opinion. Twoggle 16:44, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, if you say so... What would you like to change? --Slashme 05:42, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'll look at it closer over the weekend. But as an example, it wasn't just the 1993 study that included aspartame, it was all industry (International Technical Glutamate Committee) studies since 1978 through at least 1993. The aspartame was not in the placebo itself, but in the masking drink mix given to the subjects. Since aspartame is ~40% excitotoxic amino acid and the test was on the effects of an excititoxic amino acid, one can see where the criticism comes from. Aside from those studies where aspartame was given to the control group, there are numerous studies with findings on both sides of the issue. I'm just hoping to add a little NPOV science to a couple of short paragraphs. Twoggle 21:49, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

sorry about my screw-up

I'm sorry about my reinserting the vandalism. I shouldn't do RC patrol so late at night. --Allen 06:57, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Outdated. --meatclerk 18:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Contradiction regarding how MSG works

There seems to be a bit of a contradiction between the "what is MSG?" the "Umami" sections of this article.

From "What Is MSG?" It does not have a distinct taste of its own, and how it adds flavor to other foods is not fully understood. Many scientists believe that MSG stimulates glutamate receptors in the tongue to augment meat-like flavors.


from "Umami" MSG triggers the (recently identified) taste buds which are sensitive to umami, one of the five basic tastes.

It seems the "what is MSG?" bit is out of date, talking about glutamate receptors as though it were a speculative hypothesis but umami taste buds have now been identified. Is it correct to say "It does not have a distinct taste of its own"? I tasted some pure food-grade MSG about a year ago and I think it did have some flavour. It does trigger the umami taste buds, after all.

It definitely has a flavor on its own. I just started using it in my cooking, and have sampled it by itself several times.--ragesoss 02:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Paragraph needs fixing

outdated --meatclerk 18:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The miraculous Dr. John Erb

Forgive me as this is my first time participating in Wikipedia directly, however reading this article prompted me to create an account and respond. While I am certainly aware of MSG's negative health effects being someone who is extremely allergic to the substance, I don't think that Dr. John Erb's international conspiracy theory really belongs in a encyclopedic entry. After reading this paragraph in the 'Natural amino acid section:

"Dr. John Erb has found the actual chemical causing the massive obesity epidemic. He was a research assistant at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, Canada, and spent years working for the government. He made an amazing discovery while going through scientific journals for a book he was writing called "The Slow Poisoning of America". In hundreds of studies around the world, scientists were creating obese mice and rats to use in diet or diabetes test studies. No strain of rat or mice is naturally obese, so the scientists have to create them. They make these morbidly obese creatures by injecting them with MSG when they are first born. The MSG triples the amount of insulin the pancreas creates; causing rats (and humans?) to become obese. They even have a title for the fat rodents they create: "MSG-Treated Rats"."

I was wondering if I was reading an infomercial or something. I looked up this fellow and found the following: http://health.benabraham.com/html/obesity_from_msg_food_additive.html

Apparantly MSG is the nicotine of the food world according to him, and the corporations, governments and your local grocers are all trying to cover it up. Its also apparantly linked to every disease known to man, and the good doctor refers to himself in the third person(read the first paragraph of the letter and then read who signed it). Interesting reading to be certain, but hardly credible.

Just suggesting someone look into that. If I had more experience here I'd edit it myself, but I would rather not make a mistake.

Reflex-Croft 23:44, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


-- I believe that there is a psychological affect, whether permanent or temporary, associated with MSG. Simply eating food, perhaps a bag of chips, and not knowing or expecting it to have MSG until after you have started to feel something (not before) and not having this affect from a procuct almost identical except for the exclusion of MSG is enough proof for me. I think that not enough accurate studies have been done and for this reason people like to link it with everything (or absolutely nothing) such as with aspartame. It's plausible to note that MSG can induce certain sicknesses, diseases, affects, etc but likely in a much more limited fashion. It is also a little strong to associate MSG as the cause for the growing obesity, thought plausible as a contributor (particularly with the mice experiments). I wish more neutral legitimate studies were conducted and monitored not only health but also took an in-depth look at neural/psychological activity and feelings/state and if they feel any different (placebo testing or such). Stoutpuppy

Can we be clear here that MSG does cause obesity in mice, this is not in question. See here [[12]] where MSG is used to fatten mice. Hence, I think it is worth mentioning eg "Though MSG is used in laboratories to engender obesity in mice, there is no evidence it has such effects in humans." or "MSG is used in laboratories to engender obesity in mice and studies have shown similar effects in humans (insert possibly non-existent citation here)"202.139.50.134 04:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I've added a section on mice obesity. Can somone with access to medical journal databases find any studies on whether MSG does or does not cause obesity in humans?LimitedNews 03:00, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Be that as it may, and I actually somewhat agree with you on this, the fact is that this is an encyclopedia and there is no credible research supporting that conclusion. As a result that entry was inappropriate. At least in my opinion. Reflex-Croft 21:58, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed the edits by the person who included the Conspiracy theory entries, including re-adding an entire section and restoring a link to patent information.

69.133.14.203 10:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

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