Talk:Monkey

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Contents 1 Preposterous! 2 Classification error! 3 This page is crap 4 Why is there a picture of a gorilla? 5 Plural of Monkey

[edit] Preposterous!

Monkeys have tails. The two groups of tailed primates are more closely related than they are to tail-less apes. The article says otherwise. It is wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.122.208.51 (talk • contribs) .

You are mistaken. The Old World monkeys are more closely related to the apes than either of those group are to the New World monkeys. So says the entire scientific community. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

This should be cleared up even more in that monkey is not a natural label, or all apes, included humans are monkeys (which is the method I use) 198.133.139.5 14:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC) Martin

There are three groups of simians: New World monkeys, Old World monkeys, and apes. Of the three, the Old World monkeys and the apes are more closely related to each other than either is to the New World monkeys. There are no natural labels, they are all assigned by humans. "Monkey" is not a monophyletic grouping of species, but "simian" is. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:27, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Classification error!

It seems that a rather important primate was forgotten in the classification: homo sapiens. I don't see any scientific reason not to mention this species here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.58.253.130 (talk • contribs) .

They are not forgotten. They are on the appropriate pages. "Monkey" isn't one of them. Try looking at "ape". - UtherSRG (talk) 18:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Humans belong in the ape classification which is in the article as being a monkey. A human is an ape, which is a monkey therefore a human is a monkey. (speaking cladisticly) 11:06 1 March 2007 (MRC)

Apes are not monkeys. Apes are simians. Monkeys are simians, but are not apes. Humans are apes and not monkeys.

	tarsiers
simians	New World monkeys Old World monkeys apes

Where in the article do you see apes as monkeys? - UtherSRG (talk) 17:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Bold textAnd if you look at that chart you just put up, you can notice that apes are more closely related to Old World monkeys than Old World Monkeys are to New World Monkeys. Since they are both Monkeys, apes must be monkeys.Bold text Honestly, there are only 3 solutions to this problem. 1. admit apes are monkeys (easiest and most perfered method). 2. get rid of the word monkey (much harder to do because it is such an established word in the English language). 3. Don't use the word monkey, but use New World Monkey and Old World Monkey, never using monkey alone (even harder because adds more words and see number 2.) 198.133.139.5 11:49, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Close, but no cigar. Apes & monkeys are simians. "Monkeys" refers to the two branches New World and Old World monkeys. It is fine to use the word "monkey" when talking casually, or when context implies one of the two groupings ("the monkeys in Asia", "monkey I saw on my trip to Brazil", etc). - UtherSRG (talk) 12:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This page is crap

How do I flag it up for a major rewrite? (I'd try, but I think a primatologist should get involved) It's the sort of niff-naff and trivia that devalues the entire Wikipedia project: there are 593 words on what monkeys actually are, followed by a strange section on monkeys as pets (552 words), some stuff about animal testing (complete with carefully selected emotive picture) and a completely random section on the eating of monkeys which could be an interesting discussion on bushmeat, but instead tells us that the chines don't eat monkey brains, Islamic dietary laws forbid monkey-eating and aids may have been transmitted to humans by eating monkeys (unless the monkeys were eaten raw this seems unlikely.)

After that we have the bane of wikipedia: the trivia section, here disguised as "monkeys in literature". The extent of "monkeys in literature" appears to be that a monkey is a character in a chinese novel, Hanuman is a monkey-like Hindu god (true, but is that literature?). Monkey from the TV series Monkey was a monkey (deliberate repition to indicate the redundancy of the statement, as was Curious George). The triviaists favourite Terry Pratchett makes an appearance. And then there is a misplaced statement about mandrills. And something about the chinese zodiac.

The links section is equally poor (two antivivisection sites, a thing about pet monkeys and a helping hands site). The only two sourced statements are a food article in the guardian claiming that chinese people don't appear to eat monkey brains and a biblical vegetarian site is used for a source for the SIV-HIV claim.

Proposed restructure:

Monkeys and their relationship to people is a valid topic, but is the keeping of pets the most important element?

 1.0 Characteristics
 2.0 Name
 3.0 Classification
 4.0 Monkeys and humans
 4.1 Monkeys in science (present NPOV of animal testing) 
    4.1.1 Theories of relationship between SIV/HIV and possible transmission (may simply link to relevant page)
 4.2 As food (must discuss bushmeat or the article is pointless)
 4.3 As Pets

The trivialists will have to start their own page for "Monkeys in Popular Culture" - there's an argument for discussing monkeys and religion say, but making this a list of monkeys in books and films is the sort f thing that Wikipedia can do without

If you want to see what I mean about the difference between an uncontrolled random page like monkey compare with the entry for ape

Jim68000 22:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

    I agree, one of the worst Wikipedia pages I have seen. Mwinog2777 05:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I also agree. In response to Jim68000's initial question, to flag it for rewrite I would add both the templates { { cleanup-rewrite } } and { { Expert-subject|Primates } } to the top of the article. I'd do it myself, but I apparently haven't had my account long enough. Bloody semi-protection policy. Gitman 21:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, templates have been added. Gitman 18:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why is there a picture of a gorilla?

Ok, I'm no biologist, but...last time I checked, a gorilla was a member of the ape family. It is certainly NOT a monkey. Sure, monkeys and apes are related. But, a gorilla is not a monkey. Perhaps the picture should be removed.24.111.137.236 01:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)anonymous

There should not be. I've reverted this error, again. - UtherSRG (talk) 02:04, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Apes are a type of monkey. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gottoupload (talk • contribs) 21:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

As others have pointed out, to the man on the street, apes are just a monkey without a tail. The article even says there's no meaningful scientific definition of a monkey. It's a very rough and ready category of non-human primates Gottoupload

And as the anon demonstrated, you are wrong. - UtherSRG (talk) 23:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't care about the phuture... i care about the fture and PRESENT. bohandez 19:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC) and yes. You are 'controlers' ... behave urselves :) bohandez 19:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plural of Monkey

Are there two spellings for the plural of monkey or is the word "monkies" just plain wrong? If it is wrong, then why does it redirect to this page if it's a word that doesn't even exist? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/74.115.48.182 (talk • contribs).

"Monkies" is just plain wrong, but it is a common enough misspelling that it warrants a redirct, at least in someone's mind. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think one of the weaknesses of Wikipedia is that misspellings are not redirected often enough. Think about Google, with their "did you mean _____?" This is an extremely helpful, and timesaving feature which in no way lends validity to an incorrect spelling. When Wikipedia redirects, it is obvious to the reader based on the actual article title and the words "redirected from ____". I think information should be easy to find, whether or not someone can spell "premillennialism", "monkeys", or "hominid" correctly. When someone types "monkies", isn't his or her intention obvious? Why penalize users for "just plain wrong" spelling by forcing them to waste their time trying to find the correct spelling before viewing an article? Don't be so uppity and peddantik. Diego Gravez 01:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)