Talk:Mokele-mbembe

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Contents 1 "is believed to" 2 Pulled out pending verification 3 Naming inconsistent 4 Rhino-like? 5 movie? 6 Recent expansions 7 Article Needs Lots of work! On my list to do now 8 Moving Page Back to Mokele-mbembe 9 Requested move 9.1 Survey 9.2 Discussion 10 Portuguese?? 11 Possible OR 12 Mokele-mbembe's spelling and meaning? 13 Non scientific work

[edit] "is believed to"

Who believes it to? Everybody? :-) Passive voice is sometimes useful, but sometimes it covers up for lack of essential information. In this case, in order to be written from the neutral point of view, the passive voice must be avoided (by you :-) ) or given an indirect object (by you :-) ). --LMS

The greatest problem with this article are its sources. 'Some scientists' is no good, we need names of those wildlife textbook 'scientists', fringe science books, etc. You can NPOV all you want, but the content is already there. Phlebas 18:34, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pulled out pending verification

Around 2000 a man led an expedition into the Congo forest, and among other things, looked for Mokele Mbembe. His opinion is that Mokele Mbembe formerly existed and was a rhinoceros.

This statement needs a source, cf. Cite your sources and Wikipedia:Verifiability. In particular, we would like to know who that man was, where he came from, what he saw, when he was there exactly, where he did publish his opinion that M-M was a rhinoceros, and last but not least, why he is notable. — mark ✎ 22:50, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

It was in a UK TV program series about the Congo basin, that I saw a year or two ago. Anthony Appleyard 09:54, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Naming inconsistent

The article isn't consistent on the precise spelling of the name, in that it varies as to whether there is an apostrophe, a hyphen, and whether the name should be capitalised.

• mokele m'bembe
• Mokele-mbembe
• Mokele mbembe

It also isn't consistent about whether the name should be italic or not. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 09:15, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

You are very right. My two cents: the apostroph shouldn't be there; both words are typical Bantu words. Most literature, as far as I'm aware (see the bibliography I added yesterday), uses the hyphen, so it might be good to stick to that. Capitalization is another thing that's not consistent: Mokele-mbembe or Mokele-Mbembe? If we add up the numerous references from the cryptozoological realm, Mokele-mbembe seems to be the most common spelling. But if we count them as one (which seems reasonable enough), Mokele-Mbembe seems to be just as frequent. — mark ✎ 10:00, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rhino-like?

i think it's possible that mkele-mbembe is a rhino/dinosaur something in between. I was reading a artikel about ndoki and they hade interviewd some native people and they have described it as an rhino whit a long neck and have a very long horn. so it's possible that we are dealing with a new species of rhinos. (unsigned)

Something "between" rhinos (mammals) and dinosaurs (reptiles) cannot exist, but an unknown variety of rhinos might. Are there any references to this aritcle?--Niels Ø 13:59, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Notice the quality of the comment. I think it's a kid. CFLeon 08:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, Heuvelmans (On The Track Of Unknown Animals) talks briefly about reports from the Congo suggesting an aquatic rhinoceros (aquatic in the sense of hippos), but my copy was stolen years ago. He was writing years before the m-m controversy flared up in the '70s, and I don't think he even mentions the name, although there is a chapter about 'dinosaurs' in Africa (even mentioning the 'Kangai Rex' fake photo). CFLeon 08:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

IIRC, there's been a lot of debate and rethinking lately about whether dinosaurs actually were reptiles, and even whether or not they were cold-blooded. I believe this debate has been particularly spurred by the discovery of fossils that indicate some species of dinosaurs had feathers. Offhand, I can't link to any specific sources, though they shouldn't be diffcult to find with a good Googling.

Rhino-like? "...a long flexible neck and with a tail similar to an alligator's." Wikipedia Lol, that's one strange looking rhino :)

[edit] movie?

Wasn't there a movie from the '80s about the mokele-mbembe? I thought it was called Baby but it didn't come up on IMDB.

Yes, that´s correct! I just added a reference to that movie. (Danielos2 17:38, 4 March 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Recent expansions

I think the many new expansions to this article is excellent, and I agree completely with all skepticism. However,I think some of it should be rewritten as it sounds a bit too dogmatic and biased at the moment.--Danielos2 13:34, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Needs Lots of work! On my list to do now

Article Needs Lots of work! On my list to do now. I agree article is very NPOV, I plan on fixing that, though I've got to fight the POV to go the other way, though I have done with my Mokele-mbembe site, mokelembembe.com, by just providing facts. A lot has gone on in the last couple of years with Mokele-mbembe research and that all needs to be added, need to added to my own site, have to do both at the same time. Still more questions then answers for me on the whole subject.

--Mokeleman 09:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving Page Back to Mokele-mbembe

I'm going to put in a request to change to make Mokele-mbembe the main page and to have Mokèlé-mbèmbé. Mokele-mbembe is what Mackal used in his book and that how most people reference it, and how I reference it, as least in English, so need to go back to the standard.

--Mokeleman 10:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portuguese??

Frau Ilse von Nolde, who asserted that she had heard of the animal called "coye ya menia" (Portuguese for "water lion")

Say what? Flapdragon 01:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible OR

I removed this new bit as they look like original research: (possibly out of defense) Totnesmartin 22:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

There's too much unsourced stuff here without adding OR as well. Totnesmartin 22:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mokele-mbembe's spelling and meaning?

Where is the spelling Mokèlé-mbèmbé from? Lingala doesn’t usually use this type of spelling. There either is no accented characters (popular spelling) or accented characters sometimes with some special characters like ɛ, grave accent is rarely used if not ever. If the accents are somewhat representing some kind of spelling à la French, then mokɛle-mbɛmbe goes against Lingala's vowel harmony rule, with both /e/ et /ɛ/ in the same word. If the accents represent tones, then the right spelling probably is mokelé-mbembé, mokɛlɛ́-mbɛmbɛ́, mokɛlɛ́-mbembé or mokelé-mbɛmbɛ́. The Kawata dictionnary in Lingala has an entry for mbɛmbɛ́, meaning snail or slug, one for mbémbé, meaning supplication or lament. Mokelé is egg, mokɛ́lɛ́ is blacksmith, and mokɛ́lɛ torrent/stream of water. I'm not sure how the meaning “one who stops the flow of rivers” fits in. --moyogo 20:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

We're just going by what we see in books and websites. Is there a Lingala-to-English phrasebook or something available? And would it help with Mbielu-Mbielu-Mbielu? Totnesmartin 23:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Nope, can't find anything close to it. But Ngúma monɛ́nɛ is litterally big python, ngúma = pyhton, monɛ́nɛ = big, although in classical lingala it's ngúma enɛ́nɛ. --moyogo 00:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The illustrated Lingala-French dictionnary of Adolphe Dzokanga only has the spelling Mokelemembe, pl. Mikelembembe, for Dinosaur(s) (the dictionnary uses the African reference alphabet so the word is with /e/ not /ɛ/. --moyogo 23:13, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually the spelling might not be using the African reference alphabet, not all words in the dictionary are using it unfortunately. The book was self-edited so there are some issues. However, the spelling Mokele-mbembe is probably more correct in Lingala than Mokèlé-mbèmbé. --moyogo 06:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Non scientific work

This page is nothing more then a list of expeditions. It should be about the Mokele Mbembe itself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DinoBird (talk • contribs) 14:56, 26 March 2007 (UTC).