Talk:Modest Mouse

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Contents 1 "A new album is widely expected to be released sometime in early 2006." 2 Members 3 WHere did you get this info 4 New Picture 5 Concerning the term "indie" 6 Rape 7 Critical/commercial success 8 Album done June 26? 9 Name Conceived Differently? 10 "Most Music Fans" 11 The new single 12 Modest Mouse documentary 13 Picture/members 14 More members? 15 Lo-Fi...? 16 Tom Peloso is not a core member. 17 Interesting 18 Emo? 19 Pickin' On 19.1 Isaac Brock Self-Mutilation and Album Leak 20 Sun Kil Moon's Tiny Cities 21 Modest Mouse is MODEST MOUSE not "just" Isaac Brock

[edit] "A new album is widely expected to be released sometime in early 2006."

Source for this?

It is my understanding that "widely accepted" simply means "rumored". I would cut that line, at least until somebody can confirm the information.

Tongo Zitheroo Ketchill

[edit] Members

How many people are there? It gives three names but it looks like four in the picture. Can someone clarify this please? HereToHelp (talk) 01:09, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Just from reading the article here it looks like they started as a 3-piece, then when the original drummer quit they expanded to 4-piece (adding a second guitarist in addition to the new drummer). Then the original drummer rejoined the band, replacing his replacement (confusing?: yes). Under the list of bandmembers it says "former member?" next to the second guitarist, so they either reverted back to their original 3-piece line-up or are still a 4-piece (and the question mark makes me think people don't know one way or another). This is just based on my reading the article here... Blogbourri 03:29, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Are you serious, read the article, they have four in the picture because it was taken before the two members left and were replaced by Jeremiah Green. Therefore, when it says former members it means that they left the band and the picture is older than the information.

That picture is a screenshot of their performance on Saturday Night Live, which is after Jeremiah Green returned. Dann Galluci was not replaced, he left fairly recently; his last show was late 2005. The Modest Mouse roster changes pretty frequently, and I think there were additional performers (members or not) offscreen in that picture. However the listing of band members near the end of the article is completely accurate as far as I'm aware.

i think its pretty dumb how this new guy is co-writing the songs. i doubt whatever he comes up with is gonna be as good as brocks stuff.

while I am also worried about modest mouse breaking down because of this-- you can't really call him a new guy. I mean, he played with the Smiths for ---'s sake

[edit] WHere did you get this info

ēēēāWhere did you get this information about a new CD? i think these guys are awexomeωæ Ąî

I heard it's supposed to come out this year from a reliable source... That is if Epic doesn't push it back to make a bunch of promotional deals... like last time.

The info on the origin of the band's name needs a citation. I've always heard that "modest mouse" was one of the phrases Brock had to repeat as a child as part of speech therapy for his lisp. 66.9.126.26 22:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

That information about the new album fails the Google test. I only got a handful of random forums buzzing around. Rolling Stone said Brock got decked out one night and broke his jaw. I assumed that's where his lisp came from. LockeShocke 12:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I recall reading somewhere (I forget where so ignore this as you see fit I suppose) an article in which someone who had known him since childhood described the lisp as one of his definitive qualities. However I think I could find an article in which he explains the origin of "modest mouse" (which is as the article says it is). Pance 23:24, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Concerning his lisp, if you watch the "Untitled Documentary" Isaac has a noticable lisp. This documentary was filmed in 1997, several years before his jaw was broken. --Arnesh 13:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Picture

We need a better picture. try the one on their myspace

[edit] Concerning the term "indie"

I don't have much of a problem with it, but seeing as how they're on Sony, a major record label, is the term "indie" really all that fitting for Modest Mouse?

It's appropriate. Indie rock is more of a musical style than an indication that a band is independent. Rhobite 03:07, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, "Indie Rock" is just going to cause disputes about the definition. I think we should use alternative. We don't want a revert war.

Indie rock has been used as a genre term for about twenty years, so it's valid to use. The concept of "indie" is covered at Indie (music). So there shouldn't be any confusion. I mean, does signing to a major label automatically mean your genre changes? I would beg to differ. WesleyDodds 00:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe if you signed to something like Murder, Inc. Indie Rock could also be consider Post-Alternative? Hm.

Listening to this band for the first time, it sounds like it fits neatly into the post-rock category to me. Compare to Mogwai, for example. Icemuon 18:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Obviously the above entry is a joke, as they're certainly not anything remotely close to post-rock. A select few songs are fairly long and more instrumental in nature, but again, the stylistic similarities to a band like Mogwai, Talk Talk, Slint, Godspeed You Black Emperor etc. are extremely slim.

Changing record labels does not change a band's genre of music. Indie as a genre is terrible to begin with. Not one "Indie" band sounds like the other. Influences range from electronica to Joy Division to the Rolling Stones to Pop. Interpol is an ALTERNATIVE band. Joy Division is an ALTERNATIVE band. Modest Mouse? ALTERNATIVE. Sunny Day REal Estate is an ALTERNATIVE band. Sonic Youth is an ALTERNATIVE band. Pixies = ALTERNATIVE. Alternative stems from punk rock. It's smarter; more experimental. Independent Rock? No. Just no. Independent Rock refers to the record label NOT THE SOUND. You don't sound independent you are indepedent. Modest Mouse is (clearly) an Alternative rock band. Let us please leave it at that because it makes so much more sense. - Aaron

Virtually all of the points you make concerning the limitations of the genre "indie" can be made similarly for the term "alternative". It is clear that there HAS been a music genre INDIE for years now, whether or not that is a good label to use is debatable, but it is what it is.66.232.72.41 07:03, 17 December 2006 (UTC)Cubbie

What Aaron is right in pointing out is that, originally, the term indie referred to an independent label. It's since been thrown around so much that it is almost an identifiable sound. But the culture that Indie represents is one of rebellion against the Big 5. Because Modest Mouse, currently, is signed to one of those labels, I think it's appropriate instead to call them technically alternative -- "with an indie sound." That's the most appropriate IMHO. LockeShocke 12:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I would argue that Modest Mouse is indeed and indie band. They got their start and made their impact with critics while signed to independent labels. I'm averse to using the world indie to describe a genre, but it's a descriptor (however clunky) that people seem to understand, at least presently. What's more, "alternative" as a descriptor has lost almost all significance. Jedidiah 17:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

• LISTEN! On theire myspace page, they list themselves as alternative/indie/rock. We should go by what the band themself says. Nuff said. Arnesh 01:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rape

Why is there no mention of the incident where Isaac Brock, the singer of the band was accused of rape? -Lusy

• Because it is discussed at Isaac Brock.--Hraefen 19:03, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Critical/commercial success

• Not once in this article is there a single mention of critical success. Considering that "The Lonesome Crowded West" and "The Moon and Antarctica" are considered by many critics and tastemakers to be amongst the defining albums of their time, I find this lacking. Also, considering that "Good News..." has sold well over a million copies now, I think it's time that is noted.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by SeanJohnston (talk • contribs).

• Yeah well, considering that there are plenty of people who think Modest Mouse are repetitive, banal, and mind-numbingly idiotic, it's good that this article fits okay in NPOV, huh?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.234.146.18 (talk • contribs).
• Please sign your comments. Well-cited quotes mentioning that Modest Mouse has long been critically acclaimed and that their last album sold well is in no way a contradiction of NPOV.--Hraefen 15:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Album done June 26?

Where, exactly did this information come from?

"As of June 26, 2006, the band has finished its recording in Oxford, MS at Sweet Tea (Dennis Herring) and has returned to Portland, OR to finish overdubs and mixing of the latest album. Johnny Marr is a confirmed member of the band, co-writing songs for the new album with Isaac Brock."--71.226.108.172 06:38, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name Conceived Differently?

I know that it's a common rumor that the name of the band came from the Russian composer Modest Moussorgsky. Can somebody see a relevant place where we can include this information or whether we should include it at all?

Geoff 06:32, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I heard yet another version of this story; Modest Mouse was a phrase that Isaac Brock had to repeat as an exercise for speech therapy to help correct his lisp.

Erm, the name came from a book Isaac read. He even said so in interviews. - Oatis

Isaac Brock has given multiple explanations as to the origin of the name. Perhaps that should be noted.

FINALLY, I found a source that says that the origin of the band's name is from The Mark On The Wall. Its here. Also, on the front page of what is now probably Modest Mouse's main fansite, it says the quote from the Mark on The Wall. So I guess I'll add that to the citation on the Modest Mouse page too.[1][2] Arnesh 01:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Most Music Fans"

I removed the following lead in to the sentence describing the reaction to The Moon and Antarctica: "Despite lacklustre support from most music fans..."

There is no way to prove this and it's irrelevant as far as I can tell.

Jedidiah 17:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The new single

It's available. http://download.yousendit.com/A3A9A6D828976608

[edit] Modest Mouse documentary

There is no evidence that this film is knowingly infringing copyright, and reason to suspect that it is not. It was uploaded to both You Tube and Google video, and linked by a legitimate documentary film site: [3]. The You Tube uploader credited the director both in the description and at the end of the film. Uploader also stated that the film will never be released (it's not commercial length for a doc, in either tv--50-60 min--or theatrical release--70 min plus). Nor is it a commerical film--it's superindie. The director died young of cancer (b. 1976-d. 2002). It looks like his friends or his family released the film after his death. It's been up, all over the internet, for a while now. In the absence of a complaint from 1) an inheritor of the copyright 2) Modest Mouse, stating that any music wasn't licensed, there's no reason this link shouldn't stay.-Cindery 19:17, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I've replaced the YT link with a better one. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 20:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Alternative Rock? Uh... I think not.

[edit] Picture/members

Why do the names listed in the picture caption not match the ones listed in the members sections of the infobox? - Zepheus <ゼィフィアス> 21:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More members?

On their myspace there's six people in the band photo, there's only four listed in the core members section. I'm not a huge fan, so those of you who might know who those other two are can update the page. Thedeadreligionfx 03:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I just looked and the picture needs to be updated, and the core members needs to be updated. The picture in the corner has everyone except now it's Johnny Marr instead of Dann Gallucci, and I think Joe Plummer should be considered a core member if he's in the band photo, but I'll wait to edit it until someone replies.Thedeadreligionfx 03:21, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Just because those other members are in a promo photo doesn't mean they are main members. Modest Mouse has tons of friends/associates who help with extra instrumentation and vocals on their albums and sometimes help tour with them. These people can be considered "other members", because they are not regualr, long lasting, song-writing, etc. members of the band. Isaac Brock did say that Marr is a "full-blown member of the band" so it would probably be safe to say hes a core member. It's not "Marr instead of Dann Gallucci." Marr is not "replacing Dann. And Dann was not even a regular member anyways. He helped with some extra guitars, keyboards, etc. Either way, if you know Modest Mouse, you should probably know this. Arnesh 09:38, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

*One vote to edit the picture... anyone else? --Travisthurston 07:32, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean when you say "edit the picture"? Arnesh 23:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lo-Fi...?

Someone recently added lo-fi to their genre. I don't think this really constitutes there genre. Yeah, I guess they have the crappy sounding recordings on albums like Sad Sappy Sucker, but that is because those were actually random, crappy, early recordings. I think we can all agree that they have not had a "lo-fi" sound since their very early recordings, when they were much more punky/garage bandish. The band has of coure evolved as well from their punk/garage roots.In their early years they could probably be classified as punk rock or alternative punk or something like that. Obviously, singles like Float On and Dashboard are not at all "lo-fi". I'm going to remove lo-fi from their genre, because, at least currently, they are not lo-fi, but if someone thinks different, give a reason why you think they can be considered lo-fi on this talk page. Arnesh 23:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't lo-fi also count as not using pro tools and editing a record in post. Up until Moon & Antarctica, they didn't do hardly a thing other than double track Isaac's voice. --Rubiksphere 08:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tom Peloso is not a core member.

Tom Peloso has only worked with the band with extra instrumentation on Good News. He is not one of the main members. The truly "core" members are Brock, Green, and Judy. They founded the band and came from the ground up. I guess Marr could be considered a core member, because he helped with songwriting on We Were Dead. If doing some extra instrumentation on one album makes you a core meber, you might as well add ALL of those "other members" to the core mebers section and say that Modest Mouse's core is comprised of 13 people. The definition of core meber is pretty much someone the band could not be without. (Even though Jeremiah Green left the band due to a mental breakdown during recording of Good News, but he is still core member) Peloso is just another one of Modest Mouse's "associates". Also, I'm once again removing lo-fi from their genre...See my above post about that. Arnesh 09:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

• I guess he is... Modest Mouse's myspace page says he and joe plummer are main members so whatever. Arnesh 00:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
• The credits for the new album say "Modest Mouse is Isaac Brock, Jeremiah Green, Eric Judy, Johnny Marr, Tom Peloso & Joe Plummer." So they're officially a six-piece now.

[edit] Interesting

I feel the line, "In 2003, drummer Jeremiah Green quit the band due to a mental breakdown; the official word was that he was quitting to work with his side project, Vells," should cite its source. Fuch 17:29, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Emo?

Actually, they're not at all, so..I don't know why that genre was put there. I removed it. Oreo

[edit] Pickin' On

I just made the Pickin' On Modest Mouse album, a bluegrass tribute. Should revisions be made to the discography to include a tribute album? It should be linked in somehow. The article regarding the Metallica Discography includes their tribute albums. And if anyone has anything to contribute to the above stated article, it would be greatly appreaciated FerventDove 18:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Isaac Brock Self-Mutilation and Album Leak

Two entries were removed on the grounds of unencyclopedic, but I added them again for these reasons: The Sioux Falls event was well documented (the Pitchfork article being the only one which can be sourced here, but two videos of a bloodied Brock, and blog entries, again, can not be sourced here). The bit about the album leak should stay, if for nothing else, to give context to MGM v. Grokster case. It's not sourced, per se, but it's been on the We Were Dead Before the Ship Even Sank article since it happened. If some can definitively say this is libelous (regarding Sioux Falls) or any other stated reason, edits should be made accordingly, and to the Isaac Brock entry (which contains same content) or the We Were Dead... article. FerventDove 19:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I removed the entries. If it's not sourced it is not sourced, there isn't much per se to be had there. As to his injury and the Pitchfork article (which I saw at the time), I still fail to see what these edits have to do with Modest Mouse as an encyclopedic entry. News events don't warrant entries, IMO. Teke 04:17, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sun Kil Moon's Tiny Cities

I think Sun Kil Moon's Tiny_Cities deserves to be somehow mentioned in the Modest Mouse article. It's not actual MM discography but is notable and surely of interest to readers. I'm not sure how this information could be integrated into the article properly but it seems worth exploring. Johntroy 13:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Modest Mouse is MODEST MOUSE not "just" Isaac Brock

I have a problem of the following quote in the 2nd paragraph, in regards to either its NPOV or its verifiablility. "Ultimately, Modest Mouse is singularly Isaac Brock who is the main creative force behind the band's unique sound and style."

In keeping with an opinionated point of view, I find that Modest Mouse is a result of not one member creating its sound, but all of its members (at any time period) being so in tune with each other that changes in the line up results in dramatic changes in the sound. If it was only Brock creating the sound then member changes would have no effect on the overall "sound" of the music.

Also I'd like to point out that on the new album, (buy it and read the credits), it is written: "Lyrics by Isaac Brock", followed on the next two lines by the copyrights and their attributes. Then on a single, separated line: "Modest Mouse is Isaac Brock, Jeremiah Green, Eric Judy, Johnny Marr, Tom Peloso, Joe Plummer"

Brock is credited specifically for the lyrics, not the music itself.

Based on this and other various impressions, I find it hardly possible that any one member, including Isaac Brock himself, would claim that "Modest Mouse is singularly Isaac Brock" or that [He] "is the main creative force behind the band's unique sound and style"

Not only is this statement, in my book, a biased opinion, but a uneducated one as well, unless the statement can be supported with quotes coming from the band stating it to actually be the case.

The statement WOULD apply if it were made in such a case as Josh Homme of "Queens of the Stone Age". Which leads me to point out a quote from the Wikipedia article of Josh Homme, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Homme), and how such a statement is an example of how I think it could be worded better, in a factual manner:

"Homme is the founder and only continuous member of rock band Queens of the Stone Age (QOTSA), for which he sings and plays guitar."

Replace "Modest Mouse" with "Queens of the Stone Age" and "Issac Brock" with "Josh Homme" with in the statement I am disputing, and then move the entire statement over to Hommes' article and I would no longer have anything to dispute. The sentence would look like this: "Ultimately, Queens of the Stone Age is singularly Josh Homme who is the main creative force behind the band's unique sound and style."

The rest of Modest Mouse deserves credit too...

Stormlilly 08:49, 30 March 2007 (UTC)Stormlilly