Talk:Modern Iranian scientists, scholars, and engineers

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Fakhreddin Jamali, Professor, http://www.pharmacy.ualberta.ca/Jamali.htm

Faculty of Pharmacy & Pharmaceutical Sciences University of Alberta

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Editor-in-Chief, Journal of Pharmacy & Pharmaceutical Sciences (http://www.cspscanada.org/)

Contents 1 Link update list 2 Reverting to May 10th 3 Correction? 4 Please read: To make additions to the list... 5 Clean up 6 surprisin

[edit] Link update list

The "P" and "R" links were chacked and updated.--Zereshk 14:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reverting to May 10th

I dont mean to be a reverting prick. Anyone is free to add to the list. However, the following Wikistyle guidelines should be followed:

1. Each entry (name) should have a internal wikilink. If this guy is important enough to be listed here, he should ultimately have a page.
2. The external links do not need to be spelled out. They can remain as numerical links.
3. The internal institutional links should not be removed. People want to know, for example, where Carleton University is. Is it Canadian? Is it British? Is it American?
4. Remember, this is a list of people, not a list of links. Therefore all links must be either internal, or appear as numbers if external for backup.
5. Also, please abide by the rules in the above section. This is not a list of ANY successful Iranian engineer. There must be some national recognition.

Thanx.--Zereshk 16:20, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Unsolicited advice. I'd pull anyone from the list who does not have a biographical page here. It would weed the list way down, but this list of dead links is absurd. I plan on doing the same to the University of Maryland, College Park page soon, perhaps today, actually. -Howardjp 16:45, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Ultimately, all these entries should each have a page of their own. We're aiming for that. Right now, we have a shortage of editing manpower in the Iranian related pages. I myself am busy trying to get the essential Iranian pages up and running. Otherwise, I would make a page for each entry.--Zereshk 12:39, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

I think we need a more solid test of inclusion. Looking at the current list, a considerable number of them are simply "X of University Y. [Z]" where Z is a link to the homepage of X in the University Y faculty listing. I do not see any point in enumerating all Iranian professors. Moreover, being a CTO of an Iranian company should not be enough for inclusion either. IMHO a link to a certificate of recognition should be required for inclusion here. Moreover, the "national" thing in the list above can be generalized to national or international awards or recognition. Behdad 4 July 2005 05:30 (UTC)

I think youre right. We should have more strict criteria for the list. A CTO is not good enough, unless the Organization is well known. I took a good part of the list from www.bozorganeiran.com . But usually, there are hardly any links to a certificate of recognition for anyone. The aim is not to include just any professor. And I dont think we did that. There are 4-5 times as many Iranian professors that have not appeared on the list.--Zereshk 4 July 2005 15:12 (UTC)

I didn't mean that every Iranian professor is included. Anyway, any action plan? Should we start by commenting out the entries with no certificate?Behdad

If we do that, I doubt we will have more than 20 people on the list. People dont put their certificates on the web for everyone to see. But the links to their personal pages at least gives their CV, which verifies their list of awards or recognized achievements. Dont u think so?

When I started this page first, there were only 5 people on it. I searched around hard to complete this list. It is by far the most comprehensive one of its kind on the web. I really dont think we should be after ways to reduce down the numbers. After all, this page is probably the only page that fully acknowledges the (superior but never recognized) academic inclination of Iranians living abroad, especially in the US and Canada. (see here) --Zereshk 5 July 2005 08:09 (UTC)

See now I dont agree with this latest addition. So we should enforce strict filtering.--Zereshk 6 July 2005 10:04 (UTC)

This is a joke. Some guy working in Carleton or Concordia which are not considered as good universities in Canada and accept almost every student at the post-secondary level (with perhaps the exception of Concordia's John Molson School of Business), is not worth mentioning. Don't get me wrong, these people could very well be brilliant, but if their only accomplishment is that they're the chair of something in any Candian university (only because it's Canadian or American or British) doesn't cut it, and I think there are more notable scholars/scentists (particulary engineers) in Iran. If they've done anything noteworthy, they'd have an article. At least if they were in McGill, UoT, UBC or the Ivy league universities, then somebody might actually know them and maybe even decide to spend some time writing about them. I'm sure we can do better, kids in Iran are flocking to Cambridge, Ma.and Berkely on an almost daily basis and we've come up with a list of Carleton and Concordia alumni, eesh!

Youre both right and wrong. Right because the list needs trimming. I see people staunchly adding every pesar ammeh and pesar khaleh they have that goes to some grad school to the list. Youre Wrong because Concordia may not be a top university per se, but the fact that an Iranian is leading a school in which Canadians send their kids to be educated in, is the goal the list strives to demonstrate. It's their leadership position that makes it distinguishable. Furthermore, thinking that Ivy League schools and Berkeley and Stanford are only worthy is a very naive way of thinking. I am not familiar with Canadian schools, but I can speak for certain on American schools. UT Dallas, for example, is not even ranked nationally. Yet it has two Nobel Laureates in its faculty. many top ten ranked schools dont have that. Chairing an Iranian school in Iran isnt any deal. But chairing a Canadian/American school? Even a mediocre one? They could have given that position to an Indian or some Chinese or another American.--Zereshk 00:04, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

sorry for jumping into the discussion. i simply state my proposition. delete the article. it is totally non-sense to have a list of people of the same nationality and with/without a phd. what the list says is

1. only those iranian who are working outside iran have been considered (with 1 exception)!!!
2. any iranian with a university degree and an academic job should be considered! i wonder if germans want to have a similar page, then what length should have the page.
3. i don't see the name of myself and 5 other friends of mine. we all have phd in science.

i think this list should be removed if we are not going to be the joke of the day on the wikipedia.193.55.10.104 03:45, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

This is not a mere list of PhDs. That is not the title of the article. It is a list of Iranians that have gone beyond that and/or have notable achievements attributed to them. The list was initially based on info from this website.

And what is the judging criterion for having a notable achievement you may ask? Position, honor, and/or rank as judged by or as appointed in a western institution. And that is why Iranians inside Iran are almost entirely absent on the list. And why is that, you may wonder?

It is because unfortunately, and I stress unfortunately, Iranian research institutes and universities inside Iran do not compare in any way with their western counterparts. No Iranian university is listed in any top 500 list of the world's top universities in quality of research or pedagogy. [1] I have tried to address this issue separately, and shine some positive light on Iran in the article Higher Education in Iran.

And finally, we are not the only one composing this list. The scotts, Jews, and Americans have done so too. So I dont think it is a joke the least bit.--Zereshk 07:57, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

what? notable achievement? Position, honor, and/or rank as judged by or as appointed in a western institution. why this should be a norm? what is notable??? you are contradicting yourself: you are stating that, being notable is the same as being noted by american institutes! stop this americanization, this macdonaldization. what is rank? if rank is meant what it should, then no mathematician or theoretical physicist can be compared with russian ones.

what is top 500??? i am scientist and i am telling you that it is just a joke.

ozre badtar az gonah ke migan.. since scotish or swedish have done it, so feel free to do so? this is again non-sense. Darw. on 21 Feb 2006

I did not say the criterion is to be "noted by Americans". Many of the people on that list are in Canada or in British institutes. I did however say "notable in western circles". And yes, unfortunately the west sets the strandards of scientific achievement.

That said, the land of MacDonalds is the same land that spends more money on R&D in science and technology than the other G-8 countries combined (even when you adjust for population). (according to R&D magazine) That's why the US has the best universities, the most nobel prize winners, and the most advanced scientific facilities in the world.

It may be a joke to you. You are entitled to your opinion. But it isnt a joke to the rest of the world.

That being said, the list needs trimming. People have been adding names there that dont belong on the list. I will tend to it in the next few days.--Zereshk 13:11, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

who are you making a statement such as unfortunately the west sets the strandards of scientific achievement. ??? it is surprising to see the way you speak. first you say unfortunately, which i guess means kind of displeasure, but then yourself are defending the whole thing. this seems to me a very fishy argument and you simply don't appear to have any motivation at all. almost anyone with a phd in science can have a position in darghuzabad like places of the us, canada,... . who says that the us has the best universities? did you mean best advertised? did you mean richest? if so, then change the title of the page to iranian scientists paid by the western institutes. you do not seem to be scientis, and i dare to say that the things like this list and some of the other stuff on wikipedia are not good for the health of scientific community. one thing for your macdonald ized taste: what is easily accessible is not always the correct thing. darw. on 21 feb 2006

---

1. First of all calm down. This is not a shouting match.
2. I say "unfortunately" because I am myself a Tehran U former student. I too wish to see Iranian universities be world famous and prestigious. In fact, I am the one who cared to author the pages Tehran University, Shiraz University, Shiraz University of Medical Sciences, Tehran University of Medical Sciences, Iran University of Medical Sciences, Isfahan University of Medical Sciences, and many others. But the reality is one that we do not like: حق را باید به حق دار داد و خدا وکیلی ایران در زمینه های علمی حرف زیادی برای گفتن نداره
3. You are the one who is "fishy" because you see the idea of having a list of your accomplished countrymen as being "a joke". Does it bother you to see Iranians succeed? Or is what is bothering you the fact that 99% of them are outside Iran? It's called "faraar-e maghz-haa", and Iran tops the list in the world in that category. Maybe you should start telling your beloved regime to support science and scientists in Iran instead of supporting real jokes such as "hamayesh-i hejab", "rooz-e jahaani-e Qods", and "hamaayesh-e Holocaust".
4. Fourth, this list is not a list of "any" Iranian with a PhD that has a post in any "darghuz abad" university in the west. If it was, it would have a few thousand lines. These people are either directors, chairs, or distinguished people. And contrary to what you say, it is NOT easy to become a chair even in "University of darghuz abad" in America. You have to have an A-class resume.
5. I'm not even going to argue with you about the FACT that western universities, in particular American ones, are the best in the world. If possible, you and every Iranian will send their kids to Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford, UCLA, Princeton, Caltech, Cornell, and MIT, instead of daneshgah elm-o san'at or even U of Sharif. You would be lying if you denied this.

Furthermore, the criterion is not by advertisement. That is akhondist propaganda. The criterion is the number of papers published in peer reviewed journals, the number of patents registered, the number of scientific Awards, and the number of industrial/technological companies founded as a result of a scientific breakthrough (a.k.a. "olum-e karbordi"). Achievement means that the US has 104 nuclear reactors while Iran needs the help of Russia to build its 30 year old unfinished PWR reactor. Achievement means that the US has gone to the Moon and back, while Iran needs Russia to send the 170kg Sina-1 satellite into space. Achievement means the US has mapped the Human Genome while Iran cant even commercially produce a normal drug like FDG-18 for a PET scanner, and needs to import it (not even that! T_1/2 of FDG-18 = 119 minutes!). Achievement means that the US has the most advanced Supercomputers in the world, while Iran is struggling to manufacture an outdated Samand (the so called "san'at e maadar"!!). Also, you are incorrect about money being a criterion, because America and western Europe top the list of the R&D figures as a percentage of GNP, and adjusted for population. Besides, even if Iran was given the same amount of budget for research as the US, it would go and spend it on bulldozing Sufi mosques and on "olum-e Qor'ani", "moqaabeleh baa tahaajom farhangi", and "aayaat o ahaadith elaahi", instead of science. That is why Iran has nothing to brag about scientifically. NOTHING. Thanks to its bankrupt Islamic fundamentalist ideology that scares all its talents and resources away.--Zereshk 02:16, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

zereshk, nothing less nothing more. you are in a perfect situation to think about akhe gooz be shaghighe che rabti dare. i don't see any point on labling unknown people to regime-lovers or whatsoever. one should not speak like those whom we iranian people know: irresponsible, useless and unrelated. if you do not understand the point that this list does not make any sense for trivial reasons (of: blind nationalistic view, lack of self and national confidence implied by it, absence of criteria for evaluation,...), ask some other scientists. i am eager enough to accept others' opinion if there is a correct argument. btw, my aim was to make contribuations about my speciality + some articles on iran litrature on which i have comments. now that i see there are people who are jumping over anything they find free, i would not bother myself to write anything. you are recommended to think whether you qualify to write about everything or not. of course, nobody is going to charge you for your wikipedia entries but dont fall into dizi-ye darbaz. etwa kultur muß sein. e.g loving persian litrature does not entitle you to write an article on it. i have discovered that you are not alone on wikipedia. i do not support black moderation, but i simply can't understand it and would not support the whole project. do what you want, as it is free. think more, as it is also free. darw on 23 feb 2006.

I already showed you other similar pages. You ridiculued them as well. I think you just hate to see a page with so many proud Iranian names on it. And I wont even care to wonder why. Khosh bashi.--Zereshk 23:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Correction?

I had a correction to this list (via email to the Foundation) - Theodore Farabee is, I'm told, American of Italian background. I've removed him until this is checked -- sannse (talk) 11:19, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Please read: To make additions to the list...

1. Only add people that have achieved national awards or recognition, or are deans, directors, or chairs. Being only a "Professor of Physics" or being "board certified" does not count. It's not enough. THIS IS NOT A FACULTY LIST. Nor is it a successfull Iranian businessman list.
2. Provide link to back up your claim. Trust me, we've had people come and add graduate students to the list.--Zereshk 19:45, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up

This list needs a major clean-up. Most of the names are just average university professors, or CEO or CTO in small companies (some of them are just a project manager). I think all the red links should be deleted, unless there is a reason for the notability of that person (that reason should be backed by a link to a credible source). Being CEO or founder of a company can not be the reason, unless that company is notable. Jahangard 22:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] surprisin

im see the pari film diolag from darush mehrjoee i love this movie too--213.207.253.203 23:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)