Talk:Mitochondrion

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[edit] Mitochondrial pH

Articles always mention the fact that protons are driven accross the membrane to drive ATP formation, but what is the actual pH accross these membranes? I'm very interested to hear about how much this varies, because, of course, pH is integral to protein structure. When we add something that uncouples phosphorylation, like dinitrophenol, would this affect the mitochondrial proteins? There's a massive proton gradient, surely there's a pH gradient too? Does this change intracellular pH in the local vicinity of the mitochondrion too?Jph53 17:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Good point. FYI the pH gradient is 1 (10 fold concentration difference). In chloroplasts it is a whopping 4 pH units difference between the lumen (pH4) and the stroma (pH8). Both electrochemical gradients drive the ATP synthase and actually have about the same energy potential despite the large concentration difference in protons. The mitochondrial inner membrane has a negative charge on matrix side compared to the inner membrane space side. This charge makes up the difference in the mitochondria such that the mito and chloroplast proton gradients have roughly the same electrochemical potential when ATP synthesis is active. There is no charge across the choroplast thylkoid membrane. David D. (Talk) 18:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use in Population Genetic Studies

Quoth the article, "Because of the unique matrilineal transmission of mitochondrial DNA, scientists in population genetics and evolutionary biology often use data from mitochondrial DNA sequences to draw conclusions." Scientists use data to draw conclusions?? Shocking! I am not knowledgeable enough to expand this into a more informative sentence. Albatrossish 05:22, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Endosymbiotic theory

More information about mitochondiral DNA and endosymbiosis theory is needed here! Some is available at

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/E/Endosymbiosis.html

[edit] Different page

This should rather go to endosymbiotic hypothesis or a new page, I guess.

Aragorn2 15:25, 16 Sep 2003 (UTC)

[edit] non-photosynthetic eukaryotes

can you give an example of one without mitochondria? I'm skeptical.168... 08:14, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC) Never mind. I found the Diplomonadida.168... 08:18, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)

[edit] mtDNA recombination possible in humans

Hopefully it has been noticed that Kreytsberg et al. have released a shocking paper. Although it doesn't directly refute the use of mtDNA as a marker in population genetics, it casts doubt on this method.

I have changed the article to reflect this. I refer to ' Kraytsberg et al., Recombination of Human Mitochondrial DNA, Science 2004 304: 981'.

[edit] Rewrite

This article has been accepting a number of "1 line updates" over its history, and has become somewhat cluttered. Additionally, many of the entries are redundant ("cristae" were described a number of times, for example), and a number of the entries were opaque to a lay reader (such as unexamplined references to "alpha-proteo bacteria" and "matrix-targeting sequences", for example). I decided to undertake a large rewrite of this article, with the goals of reorganizing the information, and making it fully accessible to, say, a motivated middle school reader. Entries of more complexity should be pushed into specialized articles on the subject. – ClockworkSoul 17:44, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Organisinisation of the mitochondrion associated articles

I've been looking at the articles that stem from this one and I think that we should consider the following changes:

--nixie 23:09, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting theory or established fact?

I can't recall where but I seem to remember hearing that mitochondria may have been one of the first lifeforms in the primeval sea and started out as an independent lifeform which may later on have struck up some kind of mutually beneficial relationsship with another lifeform thus becoming the foundation of all life that it is today. Was that just nonsense? If not I think it deserves some mention because it is frightfully interesting isn't it? Preisler 21:19, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ah it's already mentioned I see.. The bio lingo in the first couple of paragraphs made me skip it.. This article really is a bit hard to read for the layman..
That's a side effect of the fact that this article is mostly edited by people specifically interested in cell biology, whch tends to be individuals involved in the field, or at least studying it at the university level. Without looking again at the article myself, may I ask which parts you found the most difficult? – ClockworkSoul 18:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Author Help

Who are the authors that wrote this article? How should I cite this article for my report? I need help in this area. Mitochondria are so interesting! For those who haven't, I suggest you read A Wind in The Door by Madeline L'Engle- it's an amazing fictional/factual story on mitochondria suggesting that farandolae might exist on mitochondria.

There are numerous contributors—from the article page, click the "history" tab to see all the people who have worked on this article. To see how to cite the article, please click on the "cite this article" link in the toolbox to the left of the article. Hope this helps! — Knowledge Seeker দ 18:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
Of course, it bears repeating that encyclopedia (and especially Wikipedia) articles should generally not be used as sources except in a very general way. Albatrossish 05:19, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I read A Wind in the Door. It's a great book. I'm planning to write some more for this article, about recent studies. By the way, do you think someone should add a section to this article called "Mitochondia in Fiction?" 208.38.46.5

[edit] Dropped paragraph

There is a paragraph in Use in population genetic studies section in rev.38776689 which somehow got dropped when reverting vanadalism. It may contain relevant information but I cannot judge. The paragraph reads: Recent studies have, however, cast doubt on this hypothesis. Kraytsberg et al. showed that mitochondrial recombination is possible in humans (Science 304:981, May 2004, pubmed #15143273).

[edit] image for mitochondrion (light microscope)

I've taken the liberty of removing the Image:Mitochondria in cell.jpg from the top in support of the comment from Rob at the top of the talk page. Though I am not familiar with light microscopy of mitochondria, I have several electron microscopy images in my 'molecular biology of the cell', and they all show structures much more resembling the diagram, and certainly without any threadlike structures. The light microscopy image does not add much information and perhaps even adds some confusion. Jens Nielsen 10:53, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

has my support Adenosine | Talk 09:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Percentage of cytosol or cytoplasm?

Re "[mitochonria] can occupy up to 25% of the cell's cytosol". Since the cytosol is the portion of the cytoplasm without the organelles, logically mitochonria cannot "occupy" any part of the cytosol. A-giau 06:35, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Well seen. I've changed it accordingly (don't hesitate to do so yourself if you spot such mistakes - just add explanation).
A related point: Can anyone confirm the 25% figure? A citation would be good to have. Jens Nielsen 21:18, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revised: Comment on Images in Mitochondrion Entry

The previous light microscopic image of a mitochondrial reticulum in a cell that was removed in February should be restored. Mitochondria are a dynamic reticulum in most cells, with long and short cylinders fissioning and fusing to form an elaborate branched network. The football shape in textbooks is a throwback to a time before three dimensional confocal fluorescence and electron tomographic imaging. It is also biased by results with isolated mitochondria, which do tend to be more round.

The current cartoon is also inaccurate in the representation of cristae as random infoldings. They are invaginations that originate at tubular openings into the boundary or peripheral region of the inner membrane. I have uploaded a model (MitoModelCAM.jpg) based on electron tomography that shows this. (I'd be happy to work with whoever drew the cartoon to help make it more accurate. I think a simple fix is possible.) You can also click on the website links (on the top page of the mitochondrion entry) for the national microscopy centers in Albany NY and San Diego CA that have been generating 3D images of mitochondria for over 10 years.

(I hold the copyright to the uploaded image and hereby release it into the public domain.)

Carmmann 19:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest 2 images be used in this article - one simplified one (such as the current one) which shows clearly the main structure, plus another which is more accurate in a real situation. --Scohoust 14:23, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mito and ATP Synthase

Dudes,

Mito actually are kind of threadlike, they're also round. I've seen lots of electron micrograph images in my cell class, my impression is that they are pretty fluid. But, i think it mostly depends on the cell. Mito in the axon of a neuron are going to arranged differently than those in a liver cell, etc.

Also, the image in the article depicts ATP synthase as floating around in the matrix. It's actually a transmembrane protien, actually that is essential to its function, as it is motivated by the flow of the H+ that have been pumped across the membrane.

Peace, --FoodRiot 04:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)FoodRiot

[edit] This is a Good Article

After review, I've determined this article to meet the qualifications for good article status. Remember to keep up with the references for future edits, and continue to use the inline style whenever possible.

I do have a comment about the images. The two images seem to be roughly the same. One is just a very simple version of the other, but doesn't seem to add much in the way of its own information. I noticed a discussion a few months ago about some new images. What happened to those? The combination of a 'very simple' graphic and a 'more realistic' graphic makes sense.

Keep up the good work, folks. Remember, when making small changes, to read the surrounding paragraphs, and make small edits as necessary to make sure that your addition 'flows' into the rest of the article. It is easy for articles to end up as long lists of distinct sentences, if you take the time to read the entire paragraph, and 'flow' your addition in, it makes things much more readable. Feel free to message me on my talk page if you have any questions about my promotion rationale. Phidauex 17:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah! pschemp | talk 17:40, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Very nice work! congrats to the editors that made this happen, you know who you are. ++Lar: t/c 19:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] [citation needed]

Why do you doubt this statement? If it didn't undergo destruction soon after fertilization then mitochondiral inheritence *wouldn't* be matrilineal. pschemp | talk 04:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

For reference, the article sentence I tagged with {fact} was:
"However, the mitochondria provided by the sperm are targeted for destruction very soon after entry into the egg."
I would like a source for this because there are many other possible mechanisms which could cause matrilineal inheritance of mitochondrial genes. Just offhand I can come up with these alternatives:
  • the paternal mitochondria aren't transferred into the egg by the sperm or aren't permitted to enter by the egg.
  • only the nucleus enters the egg
  • all entering material is transferred to the egg's nucleus, where the paternal mitochondria cannot reproduce
  • the paternal mitochondria in the cytosol are not permitted to reproduce by some mechanism, thus being diluted into essential nonexistence eventually
Given that there are many possible ways to explain matrilineal inheritance, it seems like the article should support the particular assertion it makes. Whatsmore, the particular mechanism of targetting is of interest. -R. S. Shaw 05:02, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
The original statement was correct, and I replaced it with the correct source reference. (It had been replaced by a mistake with a general textbook cited -- not good.) 209.11.184.1 08:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
That's not a mistake, that was a correct, sourced statement from a college level textbook. If you can prove it is wrong, please do, but you'll have to find a source. Don't arbitrarily remove things like that if you don't know what you are doing please. pschemp | talk 15:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
So, then, why did you replace a statement supported by a peer-reviewed journal source along with commentary in Science News with a general textbook source? "we do not delete SOURCED material"? Unless they disagree with our preconceptions? TempAcctPubTerm 22:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
There is no need for using such inflammatory terms as "flat out wrong". Also, it is customary to discuss such removals on the the talk page first, in a civil manner. Had you done this, much conflict could have been avoided. pschemp | talk 01:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aging

I came to this article to look up the influence of Mitochondrial DNA on aging an I notice that it isn't in the article. Is this deliberate because the research is too new, or is it just because non one has added it in yet? Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 22:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

  • MtDNA like all DNA accumulates mutations - this has been linked to aging (i.e the older you are the more mutations there will be - which is espeically apparent in long-lived tissues like the brain; mitochondria also don't work as efficiently with age (in part due to accumulated mutations) which can also cause phenotypes) - but from a quick look at PubMed no one has really shown how MtDNA degeneration directy affects aging.--Peta 23:10, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
    • I read something in the new scientist (I don't have the copy in question any more) that stated that recent research linked mitochondrial DNA directly to aging. After all short lived tissues like skin also age. I didn't understand the mechanism though :-( Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 23:39, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


He we go - a little light reading for anyone who is interested.

Review paper [1] "Several hypotheses suggest that defective mitochondria contribute to, or are responsible for, ageing. Recent observations indicate that mitochondria in an old organism differ in many respects from those in a young organism."

Letters to Nature[2] "Our results thus provide a causative link between mtDNA mutations and ageing phenotypes in mammals."

I don't know enough biology to write anything up myself I'm afraid What you you guys think? Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 23:49, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Later work on the mutator mouse (from the second article you cite) proposes that the aging phenotype is caused by respiratory chain failure rather than the mutations; suggesting that loss of mitochondrial function is a major causal factor in aging rahter than mutations in mtDNA. To quote a letter to Science (310:411) - "Whether the rate of aging depends critically on mitochondrial mutations is still very much an open question".
We should probably add a mention of the theory, but at this point is is just a theory.--Peta 00:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Peta's remarks. I followed a course on biology of ageing some years ago, and it's clear that ageing cannot be attributed to a single process, there are many important, different processes going on. Please consider this when writing about the research. Jens Nielsen 13:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


That's all I'm asking for. A brief mention of the theory with a statement that it's still a top[ic or research and debate. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 20:23, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need a microscope picture at top

Since the duplicate diagram was removed, it would be good to have a microphotograph up at the top of the article next to the intro. I recommend this one. It is free because it is a product of a US government agency. Its caption is: Electron micrograph of a single mitochondrion showing the organized arrangement of the protein matrix and the inner mitochondrial membranes. (Photo: U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services/National Institutes of Health)[3]

I would upload it but the silly public terminal I'm on will not let me save images to disk. 209.11.184.1 06:58, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I uploaded it for you. Here is the image: Image:Mitochondrion 186.jpg. Its a little small but better than nothing. David D. (Talk) 07:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! 209.11.184.1 08:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eloping mitochondrion

I remember when I were younger, we learned that since the mitochondria has it's own set of DNA, it could easily escape. I remember talking to my teacher a lot about this, but haven't really found anything in those words exactly about it! Was he just pulling my leg, or is this a possibility, if so, should it be included in the article, or is it too un-scientific? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.166.199.220 (talk • contribs).

Pulling your leg. A good bit of the original DNA a mitochondria had has been transferred to the nucleus of eukaryotic cells, therefore, it doesn't have everything it needs to survive outside the cell. pschemp | talk 15:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
yes, but it could still "escape" (if you can follow) and the consequences I believe would be fatal. Or maybe I'm trying to say, there is nothing that really constitutes the mitochondria to stay, they just choose to! (erh... this might seem naïve, it was just a childhood fascination that I suddenly remembered)85.166.199.220 15:24, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
No, it can't escape. They don't choose to be there, because they can't "choose" to do anything. In fact, the cytoskeleton holds them in place somewhat. Like I said before, mitochondria do not have the nesseccary DNA to live outside the cell, or to "choose" anything. They are completely dependent on the cell, and the cell on them. I think you may be thinking about Endosymbiotic theory which may explain their original configuration as free bacteria, but the mitochondria around today have changed too much to be able to "choose" to leave the cell. Also see the fiction section of this article, there was a sci-fi book written about mitochondria that revolt, perhaps you are mixing fact with fiction. pschemp | talk 18:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I talked to a friend last night that told me she also have heard of this. They discussed it in her cell biology class, in theory it could happen her teacher said! Of course this was a while ago, and I'm sure there are a lot of theories on the subject, but they learned that the mitochondria once was a Microorganism that the human cell accepted. And no, I weren't referring to the Parasite Eve series, but thanks for taking the time to reply! 85.166.199.220 14:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sperm mitochondria - do they go in the egg at fertilisation?

In reply to the anon edits, there is one single documented instance where a mitochondrion entered the egg cell at fertilisation. The evidence was that the transmitted mitochondrion caused the same medical condition in the son as in the father (it was a kind of fatigue syndrome that meant that light physical work would quite exhaust both men, trivially a mitochondrial problem). I don't have the reference here, but the basic message is that this transfer is still thought to be very, very rare. The exception should probably be mentioned if someone can find the reference. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 19:01, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

This one is in the article already - Is that it? pschemp | talk 19:03, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Johns, D. R. (2003). "Paternal transmission of mitochondrial DNA is (fortunately) rare". Annals of Neurology 54: 422-4. 

That looks like it, yes. I don't seem to have time to read things thoroughly... - Samsara (talk • contribs) 19:30, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
np, that's why I mentioned it. pschemp | talk 20:29, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

What exactly does page 549 of the freshman biology text Campbell et al (2006) say? TempAcctPubTerm 23:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Look, there is no reason to be a snob about sources. If you have better ones, you can say that politely. We are all volunteers here just trying to improve things. But it doesn't matter. Anyway, you win the reference war, but in the future, please try to use more civil terms rather than "flat out wrong" etc. That kind of language is not conducive to a cooperative editing environment, and is not neccessary. A polite explanation would have gone much further here. pschemp | talk 01:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
For all I can tell, the article hasn't exactly been contradicted; rather, the mechanism seems to be clearer now than it was a few years ago - ubiquitin tagging. Cool, put it in. And remember to use {{cite science}}! - Samsara (talk • contribs) 07:40, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
BTW, TAPT, the article you quote is apologetic on the issue: Many biologists used to believe, and some textbooks continue to say, that paternal mitochondria never get into the egg. That's a myth, however (SN: 1/25/97, p. 58). - Samsara (talk • contribs) 07:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peer Review

This article has been listed at Peer Review. Please take the time to read the suggestions made at Wikipedia:Peer review/Mitochondrion and improve the article if you can. The biggest issue is references, anyone who can contribute in that area would be appreciated. I think that this article can become a Featured Article with just a little more work, so let's do it. pschemp | talk 01:46, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] mitochondria in forensics

I propose the creation of a new section for the use of mitochondrial DNA in forensics. Mitochondrial DNA can be used to determine indentity when nuclear DNA is not available. If there are no objections, I will get started on this soon! Lauren 15:47, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 25% of the cell's cytoplasm

'Usually a cell has hundreds or thousands of mitochondria, which can occupy up to 25% of the cell's cytoplasm.' Can anyone cite that? Also- by weight, volume, or some other, more esoteric, measure?

That's probably easy: Molecular Biology of the Cell, by Alberts et al. Here's the book's web site: http://www.garlandscience.com/textbooks/0815332181.asp I glanced through my copy, but couldn't find those numbers--but the book is over 1000 pages long, so it's not surprising I didn't find it. This is one of those numbers I see quoted in the literature all the time, but without citation. :( As for the 25%, that is probably by both weight and volume--I don't expect there to be huge differences between cytosolic density and mitochondrial density, and that number is probably fairly rough anyway. ~Doc~ EquationDoc 05:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] confusing sentence

Can anybody explain this to me, please:

The uniparental inheritance of mitochondria is thought to result in intragenomic conflict, such as seen in the petite mutant mitochondria of some yeast species. It is possible that the evolution of separate male and female sexes is a mechanism to resolve this organelle conflict.

How's the petite mitochondria a sign of intragenomic conflict? And how would sexuality resolve the conflict? --euyyn 03:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I have read in many books about this (e.g. Dawkins). I'll dig out more references later. These sentences are talking about heterosexual reproduction. Imagine a species which reproduces via single-sex mechanism (two eggs merge with two eggs). This must have been how sexual reproduction started in the first place. Now, the eggs need a mechanism to propel them in the world and to maintain cell operations, so they can find their mates. And possibly mitochondria were the energy sources. Once two eggs merge, their regular genes recombine, but the mitochonrion organelles do not recombine. So different mitochondria of different lineage from two parents will live side by side in the same offspring cells. Now, from a mitochondrion's selfish perspective, it will fare better and reproduce more offsprings of its own, if it manages to kill mitochondria from the other parent. Over time, they will evolve the ability to do just that, and in fact, we observe this in a lot of creatures. This results in unnecessary casualties, yielding bad reproduction rates statistically. In animals with heterosexual reproduction, the sperm becomes so small that it does not contain a lot of mitochondria. And the few that it contains get quickly killed off by those from the egg, once the sperm gets into the egg. Heterosexual reproduction is thus a genetically stable strategy. Fred Hsu 04:13, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for answering. Let's see if I understood it... eh, so some mithocondrion in a female once muted in a way that made it kill sperm mithocondria, so it had double offsprings than usual, and so it scattered by Darwin. Right? Well but that would be a natural adaptation of the mithocondria to heterosexuality, not the mithocondria causing heterosexuality... what am I missing? --euyyn 23:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the theory runs like this: if a species does not have distinct (ie ova/sperm) gametes, then the conflict of mitochondria encourages development of sperm gametes differentiated from ova gametes. If two equivalent gametes fuse as part of sexual reproduction, then the mitochondria will develop factors which attack and kill (or sterilize) any "different" mitochondria they encounter. That means when the equivalent gametes fuse, the mitochondira will kill each other until only a few (all of one type) are left, leaving the cell with too few mitochondria. Hence the nuclear genome develops ways of suppressing the mitochondira from one of the two gametes, thus leading to the development of ova differentiated from sperm. -R. S. Shaw 03:27, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. That's a much better and more concise explanation. Fred Hsu 15:18, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I almost forgot that I promised to find references. This is mentioned in many books, but the one I particular enjoyed was Bryan Sykes' Adam's Curse. See chapter 11, The Separation of the Sexes. Fred Hsu 16:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Malicious Edit

Note the following sentence from the article as it stands: "A mitochondrion contains inner and outer Mac is pimp and he drinks orange juice. membranes composed of phospholipid bilayers and proteins."

I'm not a wiki-maven. Please re-edit and punish the offending interloper according to local custom. 220.23.58.94 16:16, 9 December 2006 (UTC)Freemount

That graffiti was erased back on 7 December 2006 at 14:24 (UTC). -R. S. Shaw 20:16, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American or British spelling?

This article seems to be split fairly evenly between British and American spellings. My observation is:

Britishisms
oxidising 1
colour 1
analyse 1
oxidises 1
Americanisms
synthesize 1
organization 1
specialized 1
centers 1

We should settle on one of them, I would think. -R. S. Shaw

Just follow the guidelines at Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English. The general guideline is that its inevitable and to not worry about it. --Eean 05:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Ok, following the guidelines, the spelling should be consistent and use the dialect of the first contributor. The first version used American spelling (e.g. "catalyze"), so I'll update the article to be consistent with this. -R. S. Shaw 00:20, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
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