Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Islam:The Shia Guild

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellany page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was No consensus-Keep. — xaosflux ^Talk 05:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Islam:The Shia Guild

Both the Sunni and Shia Guilds should be deleted because they detract from focusing on Wikiproject:Islam and the Muslim Guild. More important projects should be developed before making new ones. Both guilds are, for the most part, inactive. BhaiSaab ^talk 00:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. This will be used for POV-pushing, I am certain. Nip it in be bud now. --Improv 01:19, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, we have already gone through these, the guilds fill a purpouse, thats way we have a Christian wikiproject and also a Latter Day Saint movement project together with a Seventh-day Adventist Church project. The guild is not very active, but not enough inactive to warant a deleting, there is not many active Shi'a editors, and the guild is a good way to get information for new editors. As for pov pushing, its would have been used for it by now, its not a new guild. And what is "More important projects should be developed before making new ones. " supposed to mean? "Wikiproject Halal food"? --Striver 07:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, halal food is very important. All joking aside, it's supposed to mean that Wikiproject Islam and the Muslim Guild should be the top priorities. These denominational guilds do not really serve a purpose. BhaiSaab ^talk 18:32, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Per nom. --Kitia 15:52, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep I don't see how it would detract from other projects. People may join this project who would not join WikiProject Islam; I joined WikiProject Catholicism, where I have no interest in joining WikiProject Christianity. —Mira 21:29, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I do not mind the concept of a wikiproject related to advancing articles pertaining to Shi'a Islam but the fact is that this project has been used solely to promote one user's point of view. If you look at the project's talk page you can see that it has been used to list a mass amount of a certain user's afd'ed articles in order to try and obtain systematic keep votes (essentially it is a process similar to internal spamming to sway afd's which is against wikipedia policy Don't attempt to sway consensus by encouraging participation in a discussion by people that you already know have a certain point of view.) [1]--Jersey Devil 00:53, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Of course its me that has made most contributions, i am THE single active Shi'a editor, just see the projects main page for a participants list. As for the "Delete" section, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Islam:The Muslim Guild/Articles for deletion. Also, note how many of those AFD has been started by the voter that brought up this issue. --Striver 10:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete It's not completely inactive, the others just aren't as active as brother Striver. All in all, the Shi'a could join the Islamic Wiki guild and just work from there? Furthermore, with the few active Muslims, this limits them to bickering about the age old conflicts like Kerbala, and than who's going to do the pages about Islam in general? About, let's say halal foods? Those would be left for non-Muslims to do who may be impartial but certainly a Muslim would be more likely to know more on the subject than a non-Muslim? But with all the Muslims bickering over Husain and Ali.......And Mira, Wikiproject Catholocism isn't stuck on an ancient dispute, they don't go around starting articles about say, "The Catholic view of [insert someone Catholics don't like here]" or "Why Protestants are "barking bitches" (reference to what the Shia's here have been doing on the Muawiyah page...) Anyways, there is some good material on the Shi'a Guild that isn't "whiney" but a quick glance would show it's been pushing a POV more than say talking about 'Salah' and how it is different according to Jafariya sect of Shiaism, or stuff like that. --xx-Mohammad Mufti-xx 12:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Bro, what you are doing is telling Shi'a to stop caring for some subjects, only since Sunnis do not care (for example, the Battle of Karbala). I hope you do understand that Shi'a belive some topics that are not-so-important to Sunnis to be of historical turning points, dont you? If you know this, whay are you using those topics to argue that the Shi'a guild should be deleted? --Striver 16:13, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

We do care about those subjects, caring for a subject is one thing, obsession with it to the point where there's hardly any room left to work on other projects is another. I argued that the Shi'a and Sunni guilds (which from what I've gathered here is inactive or something) are deviating in their occupation with ONLY the Battle of Kerbala and the like, and hence they don't even participate in broader Islamic topics. Regardless of how much importance the Shi'a place on the Battle of Kerbala, it shouldn't occupy 90% of Shi'a/Sunni thought so that nobody is around to work on the articles pertaining to salah, aqeedah or even comparative religon (like Bible and the Quran page) --xx-Mohammad Mufti-xx 19:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete the Shia guild exists solely to showcase Striver's work, so far as I can tell: he founded it and it is littered with his pet projects (he is a rather untidy editor), but in all the time it has existed, there has been little fresh blood. It seems to me that there is simply no need for the Shia guild, unless you want to use it to keep yourself up to date with whatever article striver is editing at the time. And if there is no need for a shia guild, there is no need for a sunni one either. Dev920 22:00, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Why are you using the fact that i am the single active shi'a edior as a arguement for the SHi'a guild to be deleted? Wikipedia needs more Shi'a editors, not less, specialy if you are not content with me being the only editor. I am going to keep editing wheter this guild is here or not, but other Shi'a might me more involved if this guild stands. --Striver 16:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep as the nominator does not seem to understand Wikipedia at all. How does one decide what is more important? Does one push a certain POV? Who are you to say that a Shi'a WikiProject is of no importance? Seems fairly important to me. Pepsidrinka 20:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I think I understand it pretty well. Thanks for your commentary though. I never said that the Shi'a Wikiproject is of no importance - I'm saying its not critical at this time. BhaiSaab ^talk 02:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep As Striver said before we need this subproject and it has 12 members. I believe that 12 members is sufficient to show this issue is important enough to make a project about it.--Sa.vakilian 04:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Please look at this:Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Islam:The Shia Guild It shows we voted about this issue in March 2006. So why somebody want to repeat it only after few months.--Sa.vakilian 04:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.