Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:UKPhoenix79/Bose product sightings

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellany page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus to delete, therefore keep

[edit] User:UKPhoenix79/Bose product sightings

Substantially identical content to the already-deleted Talk:Bose (company)/List of Bose product sightings. The page comprises a list of Bose product placement trivia. This information would not serve any purpose in building an encyclopedia article. Wikipedia is not a free web host. This page appears to run significantly afoul of the user page guidelines:

Generally, you should avoid substantial content on your user page that is unrelated to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a general hosting service, so your user page is not a personal homepage. Your page is about you as a Wikipedian. Examples of unrelated content include:

• Extensive discussion not related to Wikipedia

...

• Other non-encyclopedic material

Most importantly, the user space is not intended as a dumping ground for "articles that can't be articles". A list such as this one presents no conceivable benefit in supporting the development of an encyclopedia. —ptk✰fgs 11:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per the arguments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Talk:Bose (company)/List of Bose product sightings. Mr Stephen 11:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --Jfowler27 18:56, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep What on earth is going on Ptkfgs Have I wronged you in another life or are you going after everything I have made just by coincidence? You have now nominated 3 things that I have personally worked on recently. One ended in a Keep the other (a talk sub page) ended with a Delete. Yet this is my home page. This is content that was once on the Bose page and was considered wikipedia content for a few months. It is NOT a weblog, it does not contain personal information, it does not contain opinions, it is not liable and it has no copyright violations. It is also encyclopedic since as I pointed out it was included in the main article before and there are many lists in wikipedia that are borderline. I am actively trying to Cite sources on this as noted by recent activity. An Encyclopedia is designed for FACTS and the help people research those facts to help draw conclusions, to learn or provide proof. If you look at this page it is a list of facts. People do say that Bose has a lot of product placements and some (not me) claim that Bose puts all of their money into these placements and other ads. This part of my talk page is supposed to help research of those beliefs whether it be for or against. But don't forget that:

  The Wikipedia community is generally tolerant and offers fairly wide latitude in applying these guidelines to regular participants. Particularly, community-building activities that are not strictly "on topic" may be allowed, especially when initiated by committed Wikipedians with good edit histories. At their best, such activities help us to build the community, and this helps to build the encyclopedia. But at the same time, if user page activity becomes disruptive to the community or gets in the way of the task of building an encyclopedia, it must be modified to prevent disruption.

This page is in no ways disruptive and has never been as such, it is designed to be worked on by many people as that is my hope and I would like to note that I have always tried to be helpful to many people out there and I think that even if you do not agree on my assertions I think that it should be remembered that this is again My talk page and I would hope that some latitude would be given. -- UKPhoenix79 20:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

In no reasonable interpretation is this "community-building activity". It is a list of Bose product placement trivia, and the community has already removed a substantially identical page. Your user space is not your "home page". It is a user area for working on things which support the development of an encyclopedia.

Bare facts are not the basis of an encyclopedia; that is why we don't have information copied from the telephone book. It is one of the core official policies of the English Wikipedia that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information.

Mediawiki is easy to install, and a web hosting account capable of running it is pretty cheap. If lists of Bose trivia or product placement trivia are what you want to work on, you may consider starting your own wiki for it, because this is not the place. —ptk✰fgs 21:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Rebuttal to Ptkfgs petition for deletion comment—Rather than just show your anti-Bose behavior aloft throughout Wikipedia Ptkfgs, you should work with UKPhoenix79 in order to find an alternate solution to diffuse your hate towards Bose products as the last two deletion requests you've placed shows that you are an anti-Bose troller. IMO if there's a way to actually convert this as being "Bose products in fiction" rather than just show your anti-Bose behavior by deleting it, perhaps give UKPhoenix79 a chance rather than just giving him a hard time. I am having more of a problem with your anti-Bose behavior as of this point as I see this as displaying your hate towards Bose IMO. — Vesther (U * T/R * CTD) 14:19, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't really feel anything toward Bose or Bose products, and certainly don't "hate" them, so going down that road isn't going to be the most productive approach here. What I don't like is the prospect of Wikipedia filling up with "off-list" articles that consist mostly of original research by folks spotting things in the media, and entirely of lists of products people have spotted in adverts. If Bose's advertising approach is significantly innovative or different from that of other electronics manufacturers, and if there are reliable sources to bear on the notability of their advertising, then certainly an article on the topic would be warranted.

This page, clearly, does not point in that direction. It is, at best, a novel synthesis of existing primary sources culled by contributors directly from the source media.

Without sources specifically discussing the notability of Bose's advertising approach, this page would not facilitate the development of an encyclopedic article, but only of trivia. Unless this page can be rapidly and significantly transformed into something that would form the basis for a legitimate article on Bose's advertising techniques, there can be no reason to consider it different from the substantially identical, already removed page, and no reason to retain it. —ptk✰fgs 15:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

So you think that even items in peoples userpage has to be cited and pass the riggers of being an article? I don't think that is correct. Actually there is a long history of articles that are questionable being relocated to a persons user page. Just look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of interesting Google Maps satellite images it is now located at User:Joshuapaquin/List of interesting Google Maps satellite images. If you were to browse any forum talking about Bose you will see that aside from juvenile disses or insulting limericks, advertising is mentioned each time. The are awash with the assertion that Bose is only successful due to its advertising "brainwashing" people. I personally disagree with those statements but it is a very prevalent theory in the audio community. Check out this quote I scoped from the internet "Bose's second closest competitor probably doesn't spend 1/4 as much on advertising and it's paid off for them in spades" [1] this is from a blatantly biased review but it is a common claim by those who dislike Bose. -- UKPhoenix79 22:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Somehow, this really doesn't seem like "Homepage" material to me. It's clearly formated and presented as materials that could be used a future Wikilist. And while it may not be the most notable of topics/lists, I don't think that would constitute a delete on someone's user page.--P-Chan 10:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The Phone book? Your comparing this to the Phone book? Now that is a stretch don't you think! I AM using this page to work on this article as can be noted I am working on citing sources and I am hoping to get this into a form that might be acceptable some time in the future. But to do that I would need to work on it and deleting this will hinder that effort... As I stated before This is NOT offensive, liable or a copy vio so those arguments cannot be used (as you have not). But you say that it is not allowed because it is not article worthy and just facts, well the only way that I can make something article worthy is to well work on it and by doing this on my page I can do this. 'The Wikipedia community is generally tolerant and offers fairly wide latitude in applying these guidelines to regular participants. Particularly, community-building activities that are not strictly "on topic" may be allowed.. And since it is not a disruptive page in the least I believe it should stay and see no reason for its deletion... There are many articles out there yes articles that are questionable like List of problems solved by MacGyver, List of Homer Simpson's jobs, List of miscellaneous commercial failures, List of advertising slogans, List of fictional diseases, List of Futurama products List of fictional expletives, List of films that most frequently use the word "fuck", and many more... All that I think frankly should be articles and I have no problem in any of them. Deleting items from a persons user page is for extreme cases and this is not one of those. And latitude as pointed out before is given to allow people to work on items of interest. All that I ask is that you allow me the same grace! -- UKPhoenix79 08:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Heck if you check out other user pages I have already found User:Ganerer/List of computer pranks, User:Joshuapaquin/List of interesting Google Maps satellite images, User:Tyciol/Bad Zelda, User:William M. Connolley/betting on climate change, User:MisfitToys/List of celebrities with links to the U.S. Republican Party, User:MisfitToys/List of celebrities with links to the U.S. Democratic Party, and again many (and I mean many) more... None of these pages take away from wikipedia and they actually get a lot of traffic all averaging over 800 views per day. Please allow me to continue working on this and allow others to help aid in its creation! -- UKPhoenix79 12:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

• del. misuse. `'mikka 07:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Please read above as I have no intention to misuse wikipedia or its resources. I would ask that even if you do not believe in my honest arguments for this that you give me some latitude as quite often given to good editors. -- UKPhoenix79 08:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete It's an obvious abuse, the user page is not for this kind of nonsense. Rainbowfanclub 12:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. I hurts nothing there, can help in the building of Bose articles, and it's entirely reasonable to userfy deleted informaation to help it meet standards. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Very strong keep—There's room for improvement for this (i.e. can be converted as being "Bose products in fiction") — Vesther (U * T/R * CTD) 13:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Weak Keep Although, it is not a necessarily good use of space, it is the space allowed for him to do what he needs to help improve the encyclopedia. If for some reason, he loves Bose, he can find articles he would like to edit there. Cbrown1023 00:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

• Weak Keep The fact that this is simply a subpage on someone's user-page, combined with the possibility that this material could be transformed into something viable in the future, makes me think that there isn't a good reason to remove this.--P-Chan 09:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per the earlier MFD. >Radiant< 13:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.