Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Guitarmankev1/Chess

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellany page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus, defaulting to keep. While Guitarmankev1 contacted several users on their talk pages regarding this MFD discussion, I find that this did not influence the outcome, as only one user contacted in this manner supported keeping the page. Nor do I find the argument that Wikipedia:User page or WP:NOT somehow mandate the deletion of this page, even absent any consensus to do so, to be persuasive. Users supporting deletion of the page observe that Wikipedia:User page provides

Games, roleplaying sessions, and other things pertaining to "entertainment" rather than "writing an encyclopedia,"

as an example of "What [one] can... not have on [one's]... user page". However, users supporting retention of the page observe, no less persuasively, that the restriction on games is qualified with language emphasizing its application to games that "involve people who are not active participants in the project". Moreover, the entirety of the userpage guideline is qualified with the provision that

The Wikipedia community is generally tolerant and offers fairly wide latitude in applying these guidelines to regular participants. Particularly, community-building activities that are not strictly "on topic" may be allowed, especially when initiated by committed Wikipedians with good edit histories. At their best, such activities help us to build the community, and this helps to build the encyclopedia. But at the same time, if user page activity becomes disruptive to the community or gets in the way of the task of building an encyclopedia, it must be modified to prevent disruption.

As Guitarmankev1 is actively involved in editing articles, he may benefit from the "fairly wide latitude" that the userpage guideline provides. Moreover, there does not appear to be any evidence that User:Guitarmankev1/Chess has "[become] disruptive to the community or... [has gotten] in the way of the task of building an encyclopedia". The question, then, of the exact disposition of User:Guitarmankev1/Chess is not strictly dictated by policy, but is a matter to be decided purely by community consensus. There is clearly no consensus favoring the deletion of this page. John254 21:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Guitarmankev1/Chess

Wikipedia is not for games. WP:NOT a free webspace provider or social networking site. JorcogaYell! 13:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per my userspace standard of "Is this directly harming Wikipedia?" -Amarkov

^blah_edits 17:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Having the chess page on my site helps users to connect and strengthen the community. - Kevin ^(TALK) 18:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Rules apply to the userspace as well. -- Selmo ^(talk) 17:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete WP:NOT ST47Talk 18:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment Author of this sub-page has been votestacking to gain support. (aeropagitica) 18:42, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment Sorry, I wasn't aware of the votestacking policy and I will immediately stop notifying others about this vote. - Kevin ^(TALK) 18:54, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
• Weak keep. Let's just let small unenyclopedic things slide. I mean, if Wikipedia had nothing but encyclopedia editing, it'd be boring as hell for most. -- Chris is me _(u/c/t) 20:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep -- Just keep it. It isn't harming Wikipedia at all, so what's the point of deleting it? I know, a bit unencyclopedic, but like Chris is me said above, it indeed will be boring as crap if there were only just encyclopedic things on Wikipedia. ~~Eugene2x ^{Sign here} ☺ ~~ 21:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Wikipedia:User_page is not law - it is a guideline and it allows for exceptions. Reading Wikipedia:User_page#What_can_I_not_have_on_my_user_page.3F it looks like it fails the point "Games, roleplaying sessions, and other things pertaining to "entertainment" rather than "writing an encyclopedia," particularly if they involve people who are not active participants in the project" but in this case it does involve other wikipedians and I will argue that Chess played well is not a social game; It is a battle, it is not social networking, and certainly not entertaining (to lose). It matches the idea of using the userpages to manage certain intra-Wikipedia interactions ;that it is classed as a game means that the policy needs to be revised to better classify the intra- verses external use of Wikipedia. Resource consumption is not an issue I feel. Ttiotsw 21:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
• Very weak keep - we're pretty liberal with what we allow in user space, but I strongly suggest making sure that you are focused on the work to build an encyclopedia and not as much on userspace. --BigDT 05:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
• Weak keep. I remember playing chess in the defunct Esperanza coffee lounge... I don't see a real big problem with having this in userspace only. Grandmasterka 06:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. WP:NOT is official policy. These games are not relevant to working on the encyclopedia. As far as I can tell, the code used in the game is not code typically used in articles, so there is little educational value provided. Remember that the purpose of Wikipedia is to build a free encyclopedia, not to entertain the editors. The fact that some editors think Wikipedia would be boring without games is surprising to me, and it is not a valid reason to keep. Khatru2 07:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep: Live and Let Live. Things such as this harm no one, but indirectly help the encyclopedia by building community ties. IgorSF 10:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Building the community? Wikipedia is not a social networking site. JorcogaYell! 10:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Sure, but strengthening community ties improve encyclopedia indirectly by increasing users' power to work on it. The content which has socialization as its primary purpose is unacceptable, but the content which has the potential to improve the encyclopedia in any way, even if that way is building the community via interactions, is permissible and helpful. Per WP:USER, "Particularly, community-building activities that are not strictly "on topic" may be allowed [...]". Of course, the above is an opinion, not policy. IgorSF 10:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. Wasn't a very similar page to this deleted a few months before the Esperanza MFD, in the Coffee Lounge/Games MFD? — Dark Shikari ^talk/_contribs 22:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Not in userspace, though, which makes all the difference to many people. Such as me. -Amarkov ^blah_edits 02:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Compleatly fails This. Arjun 02:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:NOT. Building the community? I could allow it if it were a quick game for many people but this is Chess, time consuming and one-on-one. But it's not which means I must support deletion. James086^{Talk | Contribs} 05:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I presume all sub-subpages are also up for deletion. James086^{Talk | Contribs} 05:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment- Yes, they are. JorcogaYell! 06:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per precedent. - Calmypal (T) 22:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - Helps build community and encourage participation. As long as they spend more time helping Wikipedia than they do playing chess on it, it's fine. —Dgies^t c 00:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment Not sure how to vote on this one.Changed to Keep see reason below. We shouldn’t have users treat Wikipedia is if it were their own personal website/blog/photo album /etc…, on the other hand, it helps users learn about who other users are, and their interests. WP:USER suggests that “Games, roleplaying sessions, and other things pertaining to ‘entertainment’ rather than ‘writing an encyclopedia,’ particularly if they involve people who are not active participants in the project” shouldn’t be on user pages. I do believe however, that actively involving other Wikipedians in social interactions will help build a stronger community.RiseRobotRise 08:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. WP:NOT. Go play chess elsewhere. Michaelas10 (Talk) 16:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep I finally decided that there is nothing wrong with this user sub page. RiseRobotRise 03:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.