User talk:Miskwito

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[edit] Gagwedwewin

Aaniin. Biskishini-miskwitawagameg gidizhinikaazo na? CJLippert 02:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name of Massachusetts

Thanks. Why be shy? Do you know how to set up a footnote? The good people aren't going to be interested in much linguistic detail in the article above, but if you put a summary in a footnote those interested will love it. I don't have any monopoly on it, I just don't want to see it massacred. Often unfortunately but on the whole well-policied Wikipedia requires a source. I bet you could find one! Or, if you wanted to get more detailed you could do an article on just the name: Massachusetts (name). In fact now that I think about it you could do a brief history of the Massachusett Indians. I believe they all died in Mattapan (that evil place) of the smallpox, but not at the location of the current Mattapan. In fact just to go further, you could go through giving etymologies of the most known geographic entities bearing Indian names; that is, most of the names in the states. That will help to bear in on us that other peoples resided here and other languages were spoken here, and those are part of our heritage. It's up to us to claim it. Anyway regardless of what you decide you can do, thanks for the support.Dave 02:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Better map (hopefully)

Hi. I finally got around to trying to make a new Anishinaabemowin map, representing the distribution of speakers in the present day -- mostly based on the map provided in the Freeland Ojibwe Dictionary resources. It's on Wikimedia commons right now; I wanted to check with you first to make sure it's fairly accurate and useful. I wish the black border lines around the distribution of speakers wasn't so thick and jagged, but there's not much I think I can do about that. Let me know what your thoughts are, --Miskwito 00:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Generally looks good. However, due to the large number of population as metropolitan speakers, there should be small dots representing them about Bismarck (ND), Minneapolis-St. Paul (MN), Madison (WI), Stevens Point (WI), Kansas City (KS/MO), St. Louis (MO) and Ottawa (ON). Milwaukee (WI) and Chicago (IL) should be kept distinct. All other metro areas and all non-metro are already covered in the shaded areas. Miigwech!! CJLippert 01:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, one more area. The Match-E-Be-Nash-She-Wish Band of Potawatomi extends down from MI into NW IN but not as far NW as Gary. CJLippert 01:36, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I like the map but I'm afraid someone from another part of the world might see it and interpret that Anishinaabemowin is spoken throughout the red area when in reality, it is only spoken in small pockets. Furthermore, even some of those small pockets have very small percentages of fluent speakers--some reservations you could count them on one hand. CJ makes good points about the cities. Winnipeg and Thunder Bay should be especially noted. I think he may be a bit optimistic about Anishinaabemowin here in Madison, though. I can pretty safely that Prof. Valentine is the only fluent speaker in Madison though several of his students (myself included) hang around at various levels of beginner Ojibwe. Leo1410 03:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks to both of you for the comments. I'll try to fix it up tomorrow. I had the same concern as you, Leo, about people misinterpreting the map as suggesting that the language is spoken throughout the marked area, but I don't know that there's any real good solution (short, perhaps, of marking each individual community with a fair number of speakers with a dot or something, which I probably don't have the patience for...). The only other thing I can think of is just making a note in the caption to the picture that Anishinaabemowin is only spoken in isolated pockets, rather than all over the entire region. Again, miigwech for the comments --Miskwito 04:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the solution is to have two levels of shading: translucent and opaque. The translucent or a tint would indicate where the likelihood of a speaker would be and that would be the large colored area you have, while opaque or solid area would be a definite communities. If so, the maps at Languagegeek.com is good for Canada for reserve communities but for off-reserve communities, Leo is right to point out Winnipeg and Thunder Bay. Others Canadian cities for worth noting would be Red Deer (AB), Calgary (AB), Swift Current (SK), Saskatoon (SK), Moose Jaw (SK), Regina (SK), Estevan (SK), Brandon (MB), Portage la Prairie (MB), Sault Ste. Marie (ON), the entire Manitoulin Island, Sudbury (ON), North Bay (ON), Toronto (ON), Newmarket (ON), Barrie (ON), Hamilton (ON), Kitchener (ON), London (ON), Sarnia (ON), Windsor (ON), Kincardine (ON), Port Elgin (ON) and Kingston (ON), while in the US, each of the Reservations, off-reservation communities, and cities such as Great Falls (MT), Shelby (MT), Havre (MT), Wililston (ND), Minot (ND), Rugby (ND), Bottineau (ND), Grafton (ND), Fargo (ND), International Falls (MN), Bemidji (MN), Crookston (MN), Detroit Lakes (MN), Little Falls (MN), Cambridge (MN), Aitkin (MN), McGregor (MN), Virginia (MN), Grand Rapids (MN), Duluth (MN)-Superior (WI), Brainerd (MN), St. Cloud (MN), Thief River Falls (MN), Warroad (MN), Ashland (WI), Hayward (WI), Ladysmith (WI), Eau Claire (WI), Wausaw (WI), Barron (WI), Rice Lake (WI), Reinlander (WI), Hurley (WI), Houghton (MI), Marquette (MI), Eshpiming (MI), Manistique (MI), Munising (MI), Sault Ste Marie (MI), St. Ignace (MI), Cheboygan (MI), Petoskey (MI), Charlevoix (MI), Traverse City (MI), Manistee (MI), Ludington (MI), Bay City (MI), Saginaw (MI), Flint (MI), Kalamazoo (MI), Lansing, (MI), Dowagiac (MI), South Bend (IN), Topeka (KS), and Lawrence (KS). Of all these places mentioned, the major urban centres for speakers are difinitely without a question the following: Winnipeg (MB), Thunder Bay (ON), North Bay (ON), Barrie (ON), Bemidji (MN), Duluth (MN), Minneapolis-St. Paul (MN), Eau Claire (WI), Milwaukee (WI), Marquette (MI), Sault Ste. Marie (MI), and Saginaw (MI). So, maybe these areas and the Reserves/Reservations should be big dots, off-reservation communities and the other locations mentioned be small dots, and all other shade-area be a tint? CJLippert 15:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ojibwe language userboxes

Discussion moved to Wikipedia_talk:Babel#Ojibwe_language_userboxes CJLippert 19:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Croatan indians

Why do you think there is no place for Croatian theory of Croatan tribe origin. It's just a legitimate theory and I don't see what is the problem with it? VelikiMeshtar 13:08, 26 Janury 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Professor Lyle Campbell

Hello, i am currently a student of professor campbell's, which is why i have been editing the information on his page, namely putting up a picture, this picture is not a copyrighted work and is safe to publish, it is prof. campbell's page, which he has control over and this picture is free-use. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cragun00 (talk • contribs) 20:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

I have written, and am waiting for a response from, U of U for the information on the copyright held on the photo, as well as information about lyle's claim to the image, will forward to you as soon as I get it.

Remember, getting permission to "use the image on Wikipedia" is not good enough. It has to be released via GFDL, public domain, etc etc. --Ling.Nut 21:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Miami-Illinois

Hiya Miskwito,

Thanks for your messages! I put a comment on the "Lyle Campbell" thread above, too....

I know of a professor who is Miami. I suppose I could discretely ask a question or two, but I don't actually know this professor personally, so my welcome mat could be a little small (don't know; on the other hand, the prof may be eager to talk etc.) SO if you do have any q's you want to pass on, we'll discuss. Later, --Ling.Nut 21:14, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't responding to any comments about Miami-Illinois. I looked at your contribs to see what you were working on... to see if I could chip in any help ;-) --Ling.Nut 22:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

she's just a member of the Miami tribe, and not a linguist... but knows the guy behind the language revival push --Ling.Nut 01:26, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Etymology of "Texas"

Thanks for your message. I learned of the actual Caddo word through personal correspondence with Wallace Chafe at the University of California, a linguist who did some field work with the Caddos. I'm not sure how you would reference that, but here's what he told me:

"The Caddo word táysha? means 'friend'. They apparently used this word for those in the larger Caddo group, kind of like 'allies', as opposed to enemies like the Osages. The Spanish wrote it as texa. (They used x for the sh sound.) Then the Spanish added the plural -s, and referred to the Texas Indians. The rest is history."

Hope this helps! –Benjamin 17:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology of Kentucky

I respectfully disagree with your decision to remove several past spellings and possible etymologies of Kentucky, all of which were documented in respectable print sources, without at least some discussion on the article's talk page. I have reverted those edits, and am requesting that you justify these changes on the article's talk page. Should there be consensus there, I will abide by it. Acdixon 14:40, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your polite and clear response. I think I understand where our disconnect came. I've explained in detail on the talk page. Acdixon 17:59, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rules

With ref to your comment in response to my AfD comment, my reference to WP:IAR which is in fact a wikipedia policy. It states If the rules prevent you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore them.--Golden Wattle ^talk 23:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please take another look at the Niggardly article

Hi Miskwito,

I've done a lot of work on the Niggardly article and made a couple of comments at the deletion debate since you commented there. Please take another look and reconsider your opinion. It's essentially a much different article. I'm not yet completely satisfied with it, and if you want to make any contributions I'd welcome it, but if you could just take another look I think you'll be pleased. Noroton 23:46, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Good work, Noroton. Based on the changes you made, I've changed my vote to keep. Take care, --Miskwito 00:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Elbow Witch

The source is Ojibwā Texts. I can't recall the page number. It may be cited on the web page, but it's on my old hard drive. Perhaps it's cached on archive.org. --Scottandrewhutchins 11:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can you reconsider the FL discussion?

I know that it's been a long time since I got around to improving List of delegates to the Millennium Summit, but could you please take a second look at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of delegates to the Millennium Summit. I expanded the lead, but not too much to make it resemble the Millennium Summit lead.--Ed ^{¿Cómo estás?} 23:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much for supporting the nom for FL. I really appreciate it.--Ed ^{¿Cómo estás?} 00:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison chart development

I have added a commented-out chart at Ojibwe_phonology#Historical_phonology. Please review, and maybe reword and add and uncomment-out. Due to the chart being pulled in from the Cree language, the examples in the Anishinaabemowin isn't as startling as that of Cree. However, variations do exist, and the word choices don't seem to adequately reflect those variations. They should ideally include the z/z-Oji-cree (as in bizaan ᐱᓵᐣ and ninzid ᓂᐣᓯᐟ), z/dh-Oji-cree (as in bizaan ᐱᓵᐣ and nindhid ᓂᐣᑎᐦᐟ), n/n-Ojibwe without syncope (as in inini and ningodwaaswi), n/0-Ojibwe without syncope (as in inini and ingodwaaswi), n/0-Ojibwe with syncope (as in nini and ngodwaaso), n/n-Algonquin (as in inini and anami'e), n/y-Algonquin (as in inini and ayami'e), as well as with the difference between the northern Potawatomi and southern Potawatomi... or maybe have such a chart in each of Algonquin language, Ojibwe language, Anishininimowin language and Potawatomi language pages and one pulling all these and the one on the Cree page together into a single comparison chart in the Algonquian languages page.
p.s. When I find the example matrials for ~~the Oji-cree and~~ Potawatomi, I will provide examples here. CJLippert 16:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
p.p.s. I found my notes on Oji-cree and it wasn't a n↔dh variation but rather a z/s↔dh/th variation. In addition probably the z/s↔zh/sh variation of both Oji-cree and Plains Ojibwe should have examples as well. CJLippert 03:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trankswiki:Two-Spirit "terms"

The article over at Wiktionary is a mess. The whole article was copied over, not "just" the "terms" section. I certainly hope you clean up the article (removing the text that's already on Wikipedia) and point the links on the page back to Wikipedia (there are a lot of red links now). -- WiccaIrish 19:41, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FYI: m- prefix in Anishinaabemowin

Just as an FYI, the n- is (n1), g- is (n2) and w- is (n3), but m- seems to be (nX). It appears in words such as midaas, maame, mikana, magoodaas, etc. It really hasn't well studied. Maybe you can do a linguistic study, write about it in detail, and get either your M.A. or Ph.D. with it. I don't remember whom, but someone have done a study on the Menomini language and its m- prefix use. CJLippert 00:44, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wonscoteonach

I am no expert about Indian languages. I have seen a few different versions of this word. I double-checked the book which I cited and the reference is in an annotation to the diary so I am not sure whether Mrs. Simcoe actually used the word. It turns out that I misread the book. The quote is actually "back burnt grounds" although I have seen "black burnt lands" mentioned in other sources. I reported on this topic in a blog I write about the Don. Here is the link Don Watcher. I referred to another blog called the Missing Plaque Project who wrote about the Wonscotonach River. This article refers to it as a Mississauga Indian word. The Mississaugas were Ojibwa. Therefore my assumption is that it is an Anisnawbe word. Atrian 01:38, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On 3rr

No, it was a 3rr violation. Here are the reverts. [1] [2] [3] [4] Usually we administrators also give warnings before any 3rr block, but if you look at the history of the Spanish language page you'll see that this user has been coming back on and off on different IPs for some time now adding this without regard to discussion on the talk page.--Jersey Devil 02:03, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] crude table of Algonquian languages

I was thinking, often there seems to be a blurb on how the Algonquian languages are often divided by non-Natives into smaller groups and the languages are more like series of dialectual chains. I've threw together this table of Cree- and Ojibwe-groups of languages. How would this look if other Algonquian languages were added to this table? Do you know of any works that maps out the languages in relationship to each other and not as separate banches (often shown in "tree" formation)?

.	cwd	.	.	.	.
crk	crw	crm	crj	crl	nsk
ojw	ojs	alq	atj	moe (W)	moe (E)
ojb	ojc	ojg	.	.	.
ciw (W)	ciw (E)	otw	.	.	.
.	.	pot (N)	.	.	.
.	.	pot (S)	.	.	.

CJLippert 19:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, both Mithun (1999) and Campbell (1997) have language maps, based, I believe, on those in the Smithsonian's HNAI. However, they generally show the locations of languages at the earliest time their speakers had contact with Europeans (rather than, say, the present location). And since those were the sources I used to draw that first Ojibwe map a year or two ago, I'm not sure if they're entirely accurate. --Miskwito 23:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tamil Languages Please Consider the following references

Tamil has been declared a Classical language by the Indian government. This has been done after an extensive research and a political process. See:

http://www.ciil-classicaltamil.org/ Centre of Excellence for Classical Tamil

This article assumes some basic Tamil background knowledge from the reader. Continuous literary tradition is well established. Please do some background reading about Tamil literature and, one can understand that statement. The above web site would be of value in that regards.

Counting only the first lanaguage speakers: Tamil is #15, according to the following paper: http://www.frenchteachers.org/bulletin/articles/promote/top%20languages.pdf

If second language speakers are counted it drops to #18, according to Ethnologue. http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/help/top-100-languages-by-population.html

13-17, probably due to uncertainty or same number of people speaking some other lanuages.

I am an editor at Tamil Wikipedia. This article is well researched, and written by informed contributors. Let me know if I can be of more help.

--Natkeeran 05:49, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] enaabadizid

Boozhoo! As an aid to my learning, I was hoping you could maybe parse "enaabadizid" for me. I see the vai verb "aabidizi" glossed "be used" in Nichols/Nyholm, but I'm not clear on how the affixes turn it into "user". Miigwech! Chimakwa 19:37, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that helped a lot! I just got Freelang tonight; I don't know why I waited so long to install it.Chimakwa 01:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mayan languages FA nomination restarted

The FA nomination of Mayan languages where you had expressed your opinion has been restarted because of substantial changes having been made to the article. You might wish to restate your opinion at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mayan language.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 11:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD for Language Creation Conference

Both of your specified reasons for the AfD seem to be now either null or addressed. Retract? --Sai Emrys 22:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] thanks man!

thanks for the help in icelandic orthography--Sonjaaa 01:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

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