Talk:Ministry of Magic

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[edit] Government Powers/Election process

The Ministry seems to be an unelected body, and is autocratic to the point of being a de facto dictatorship. There appears to be no seperation of powers and the judicial system is heavily biased.

I have quibbles with this line. First, I believe Fudge is stated as being elected. Second, if his position was so autocratic, he wouldn't have been deposed merely for looking bad post OotP. Third, as to the last line, if there was no seperation of powers Harry shouldn't have even gotten a chance in the OotP trial. Instead, the Judge is able to thwart the Ministry's plan -- a clear sign of seperation of powers.

Admittedly, the government still isn't friendly. But because of this, these lines strike me as inaccurate as currently written. --Xylix 20:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Office for the Detection and Confiscation of Counterfeit Defensive Spells and Protective Objects

According to my reading of Half-Blood Prince, the Office for the Detection and Confiscation of Counterfeit Defensive Spells and Protective Objects is not actually part of the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Office, as this page currently says it is. Here is Molly Weasley talking in HBP (Chapter 5, pg 84 UK):

'I don't know whether Ron's told you in any of his letters - it's only just happened - but Arthur's been promoted!' ...
'...Rufus Scrimgeour has set up several new offices in response to the present situation, and Arthur's heading the Office for the Detection and Confiscation of Counterfeit Defensive Spells and Protective Objects. It's a big job, he's got ten people reporting to him now!'

Presumeably the Detection and Confiscation Office is part of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement, but I don't think its a sub-office of Misuse of Muggle Artifacts. I think this needs to be changed. Any opinions? Albreda 12:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Each department should not have their own page

I am sorry if this was discussed before, but there are a number of departments / divisions / offices out there that have their own article but would easily fit in here. Shall we merge them?

The list of them that I know of is:

So I am proposing to merge them in here.

Please discuss. Lag 20:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge: All these articles are far too short and will never be expanded. A point could be made for Wizengamot, but I feel it only deserves its own page if a lot of information is revealed in book 7; until then, it should be merged as well. Pruneau 00:25, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


I have completed the Floo Network Authority. I have also changed the links to the original page. Lgriot 16:54, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

And the goblin liason office was already done. Lgriot 16:57, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Office is now done and so is the Department of International Magical Cooperation. Lgriot 17:51, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I have had a think about merging the Wizengamot article into here, but it is slightly different: some of its members are not ministry employees and it is a fairly big article. So in the end, I have removed my merger proposal for this one. The article is important enough and has many links to it. Lgriot 18:04, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ad for real world company

I have removed the following advertisement in the summary:

(Trivia - this is also the telephone number of the real British magic company Dynamic FX 084500 62442)

If anyone thinks it should still be here, feel free to discuss. Lag 22:39, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Centaur Liaison Office

What is the source for the information on the Centaur Liason office? afaik, that is none canon information, and as such, should not be included in this article. Darksun 18:39, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The Centaur Liaison Office is mentioned in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them on the footnote of page xiii: "Although a Centaur Liaison Office exists in the Beast Division of the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, no centaur has ever used it. Indeed, 'being sent to the Centaur Office' has become an in-joke at the Department and means that the person in question is shortly to be fired."

I did encounter some conflicting pieces of information on the web when researching which subdepartments fall under which divisions. Many sites list the Office for House-Elf Relocation as part of the Beast Division; however, in Newt Scamander's biography in Fantastic Beasts, it states: "After two years at the Office for House-Elf Relocation, years he describes as 'tedious in the extreme,' he was transferred to the Beast Division". This seems to imply that the House-Elf Office is in the Being Division.

Also, in Chapter 7 of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, the voice on the elevator lists the Goblin Liaison Office and the Pest Advisory Board in addition to the Being, Beast, and Spirit Divisions; I think we can infer from this that these two subdepartments operate outside of the 3 divisions.

neatnate 20:14, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ah, OK, thanks for clearing that up, I've only ever skimmed through Fantastic beasts and must have missed that part. Darksun 21:59, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Office

The Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Office is in fact part of the Department of Magical Enforcement. Throughout the series there have been several indictations to this matter. In addition on a fansite there was a organization graph of the Ministry and the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Office was under this department. --Lord Spade 21:50, Jan 6, 2005 (UTC)

Moved it. neatnate 22:20, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Battle Table

I added a battle table. What do you guys think? ^_^

I'm not sure about counting Sirius as a 'death'. He's definitely gone, but it's not entirely clear what's happened to him. Not just relevant to the table - this is referred to several times in the article. Nomist 16:48, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I didn't mention Sirius by name when I put the table in. Nevertheless, the fact that there was a death (or at least an apparent one) was relevant enough to put under the casualities section of the battle table.

[edit] Fudge

Fudge is paranoid and believes that Albus Dumbledore, headmaster of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, is a threat to his authority and therefore constantly tries to have him discredited.

Yes, yes, we know Fudge is a bit of an idiot, but throughout most of the books he respects Dumbledore as much as the next man. Fudge only turns into a stubborn git when Voldemort's return is mentioned. Therefore, this bit needs to mention his initial kindliness despite his incompetance. I'll do something of that sort now. --195.92.67.69 03:09, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Or maybe not. I ended up rewriting Department of Mysteries instead for some reason. It's late, I need sleep; someone else can do it. --195.92.67.69 03:48, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Arthur Weasley's New Job

Added as a link in the Department of Magical Law Enforcement. It needs to be fleshed out though. -- Joe 21:40, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of the Ministry

I think the name Battle of the Ministry would be more appropriate than the Battle of the Dep't of Mysteries because the battle didn't take place exclusively in that Dep't and in the 6th book they often refer simply to fighting at the Ministry rather than the Dep't of Mysteries (such as when Harry tells Luna and Neville that "[Romilda Vane, et al.] weren't at the Ministry. They didn't fight with me."). Because of this and because we would need a name like "Battle of", I think Battle of the Ministry would be the least in violation of No Original Research. Cornince 22:39, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Note to anyone intending on splitting off a section

This page has been processed by N-Bot, which, for browsing convenience, changes links to redirects to lists to links to the relevant list sections: e.g. [[Department of Magical Law Enforcement]] is changed to [[Ministry of Magic#Department of Magical Law Enforcement|Department of Magical Law Enforcement]].

As a result, anyone who intends to split a section out of this page should be aware that, as of 4 September 2005, the following sections were linked to from the following pages:

~~ N-Bot (t/c) 18:55, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] First apearance

The MoM is first mentioned in Philosopher - Harry says "There's a Ministry of Magic?" to hagrid, when Hagrid says the ministry have a hard job controlling the common Welsh Grenback dragons. Gary Kirk 12:50, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ministries of Magic?

I remember Quidditch Through the Ages saying something about each country's Ministry of Magic being responsible for keeping sports secret from Muggles - didn't see this in the article. Brian Jason Drake 16:25, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Miister for magic merger

I noticed the merger proposal. As things stand, the Minister for Magic article doesn't say much and could well enough be a section here instead. Sandpiper 13:34, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

It also sounds good to me --- after all, most of the major info is in the individual pages for each minister, i.e. Scrimgeour, Fudge, etc. So I think it could quite easily go here. Agent0042 17:31, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Support Merger definatly no need for a seperate article, all relevant info can be incorporated in the Ministry of Magic article and in the individual's own article (Fudge, Scrimgeour), just as Agent0042 points out. Death Eater Dan 17:50, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
All right, this has been sitting for a long time and nobody has done it yet, so I figure it's about time. When you next see the page, the two should be merged. Agent0042 23:56, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wizard Politics

Although I'm aware that dumbledore has been "offered" the post of MfM, the fifth book also mentions that Fudge was "elected" shortly before Harry came to Hogwarts. How the Minister is chosen and removed seems to be rather muddled. 71.253.41.87 07:28, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Not really. Having the post offered is like a major polical party coming to you and "offering" a politically elected position. What it basically means is that they, some party(ies), believed Dumbledore could run and win... so long as they supported him. That isn't at all in opposition to the idea that Fudge is elected.
There is also additional support for the idea that Fudge is "elected" -- in some way, shape, or manne. If Fudge had no need of the support of the populus, he wouldn't be nearly so concerned about being displaced by looking bad in front of the public. It also meshes well with Fudge's fear of Dumbledore. Dumbledore is so highly regaurded that Fudge, certainly correctly, beleived that if Dumbledore ever "ran" for the office of the Minster of Magic, that he'd succeed... or at minimum threaten Fudge's position. --Xylix 20:52, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links to main wikipedia for basic words - any use?

In the floor directory, there was a high number of irrelevant links to the main wikipedia. for example the word security in "security desk" was linked to physical security which has nothing to do with Harry Potter in any way. Another example is the phrase "ground floor" was linked to floor which is really to generic to be any useful. My assumption is that the one reading this article already understands English and does not need a link to the basic words. Otherwise why not put a link on every single word? I have therefore removed such links for words that really do not need explanations. Lag 11:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prime Minister Reference to Minister of Magic

I'm not sure where this should be added but immediately prior to the UK Parliment summer recess an MP asked the Prime Minister about the Minister of Magic

"Q8. [13349] Miss Anne Begg (Aberdeen, South) (Lab): Now that the summer recess is almost upon us, will my right hon. Friend have time to do what millions of people did this weekend and read the new Harry Potter novel by Scotland's most successful writer? What would he say to people who have been critical of those books, especially as they have done more to improve literacy and children's enjoyment of reading than even this Government's excellent education policies and everything that I did in 19 years as an English teacher?

The Prime Minister: The Harry Potter brief in my file is somewhat thin, which only shows that my officials' sense of importance is not what it should be. I was told by someone, however, that in the first chapter of the new book the Minister of Magic comes out of a picture to confront the Prime Minister. I am still searching for the Minister."

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm050720/debtext/50720-03.htm#50720-03_spmin23

[edit] Department of Mysteries

I've made some edits to the Department of Mysteries sections. Essentially I changed the battle infobox to avoid using nicknames and abandoned names for characters, and changed the list of rooms to be closer to what the books say. If anyone reverts this, please explain why below. Thank you! Emmett5 02:59, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I've also made an edit, removing the speculative statements that this or that room were "probably used for etc.". Happy cricket 18:29, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inproper Use of Magic Office

When the Inproper Use of Magic Office is merged it should go in the category of the Deparment of Magical Law Inforcment. 72.134.40.173 18:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expanding Enemies

On the template stating the Ministry of Magic's enemies, can it be expanded to include other criminals? While Dark witches and wizards are sure to be the Ministry's main concern, they would also have to worry about the Wizarding equivalent of drunk drivers and counterfeiters and other petty criminals (Mundungus Fletcher comes to mind). How could that be added? - Throw 16:48, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DoM

What exactly is said regarding internships? Nothing canonical has been said about any sort of internship, least of all in the most secretive Department of the Ministry, which vigourously keeps out everyone and its business secret. Was it just a throwaway, "Oh, I'd love to do an internship in the DoM," i.e. no indication that such a thing exists, or a solid "The DoM wants me to do an internship there." If it is the latter, it might as well be included (as patently stupid as it is); if the former, it would be far more likely to be a vague desire, on the order of 'I'd love to be Prime Minister', and thus should not be included, being not only derived from the notoriously unreliable movies but also not even factual. So what is it? Michaelsanders 22:27, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

1. I clearly attributed it to the movie to settle any "canon" concerns. 2. The quote, if you only watch the movie is as follows:
CROUCH JR./MOODY (to CROUCH SR.): You're not trying to talk him [Harry] into one of the Ministry's summer internships are you? The last one who went into the Department of Mysteries never came out! Wl219 01:41, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
And another thing, how inclusion of such a fact patently stupid? Fancrufty? Fine. OR? Whatever. But stupid? I must remind you of WP:AGF. I also take strong exception to your characterization of the movies as being of lesser quality. Frankly I enjoyed them as much as I enjoyed the books. I find that your militancy against the movies serves no useful purpose. Wl219 01:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Since it's in the movies, it's canonical unless contradicted by the books. Militancy against the movies is understandable, they alter plot elements significantly and in an inconsistent manner. I'd agree with their use as canon, but they definitely constitute a lower degree of canon than the books or ever well-cited JKR quotes. scharferimage 00:51, 22 December 2006

Well, although it's said in a joking and possibly non-serious manner (and he doesn't specifically say that the internship was for the DoM, merely that the last intern to go into the DoM didn't come out - yeah, right), the idea that the most secretive department in the Ministry, the place which doesn't let anyone in at all without strict conditions, and which keeps its secrets under wraps, would willingly allow a gaggle of kids in every summer is stupid. Especially since there has been no indication of any sort of internship scheme in the books (where were all the kids when Harry went for his trial?). Why didn't Voldemort wangle Harry an internship using Malfoy, and get him there that way - much simpler! The idea is absurd. In any case, it was suggested as a Ministry general policy, not a DoM-specific policy.
It's canonical unless contradicted by the books. Not quite the case. For example, movie-only spells are not considered canonical. The general attitude is that since the principal writers are not Rowling - who merely applies an unspecified amount of editing to the finished product, with occasional larger involvement in vital scenes - it isn't canon unless Rowling specifies it as accurate. As canon goes, it is only marginally more so than canon-based fanfic (the two are basically the same, after all). Furthermore, the films are very annoying - in this case, because they confuse people as to what actually happened. So people think Ron's slug curse was invoked with "Eat Slugs!" rather than no words at all, that Hermione knew of the term mudblood prior to Malfoy's use, that Hermione repaired Harry's glasses on the train (she didn't prove her magic there at all), and that Ron was involved in that Forbidden Forest detention. Even a reputable editor recently thought that Hermione was calm in the Devil's Snare crisis (in fact, she panicked and dithered). So, I think a little bit of contempt for the films - if only on an editorial basis - is justified. Michaelsanders 14:41, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair retort Michael, and in principle I agree. I think the introduction of movie-only material into articles is acceptable though provided that the events or incidents in question are cited clearly as coming only from movies, as was the case in this instance. scharferimage 14:02, 22 December 2006

Very well. Michael, would you care to start a new section like "Portrayal in the movies" or "Differences between the books and films" to air your concerns about inconsistencies? I will put my comment about internships in this section instead of the main DoM section. I would suggest such a "portrayals" section in other HP articles as well, such as Hogwarts, if there isn't one already. Wl219 19:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd suggest that the best place for it would be the Differences between book and film article for GoF, whatever it is specifically called. As for portrayals in films, bring it up on the project page: for my part, I would personally avoid bringing anything from the movies into articles which are intended to be exclusively devoted to Rowling's work only, unless there was extremely good reason (e.g. Harry dies in one and not the other, or some such inaccuracy). I suggest you simply stick something like "A joke in the GoF film suggests that the Ministry offers summer internships. The joke was not in the corresponding book, and to date, there has been canonical or authorial suggestion that the Ministry even offers internships." near the beginning. Michaelsanders 20:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I have no strong feeling about where a mention of summer internships might belong (swaying a little to putting it both in the differences article for GoF and a small note, clearly saying it's movie-only, in this article), but as for what is and isn't canon: I would hope we could follow the Lexicon's thoughts on canon, as they make sense and are reasonable. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 04:59, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

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