Talk:Military brat (U.S. subculture)

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  • Archive 1 Primarily older material before efforts to make this an FA.
  • Archive 2 Primarily discussion around the withdrawn FAC.
  • Archive 3 Between the withdrawn FAC and second Peer Review
  • Archive 4 Between second Peer Review and Second FAC (Small archive)

Contents

[edit] BRAT ACRONYMN

Since BRAT has no official meaning, I thought it would be nice to have a place where people could post the variations that they've heard of someplace. These acronymn's don't belong in the main article and don't warrant their own page, thus I'm creating a space here at the top of the talk page. Please do not put crude or offensive variations here:Balloonman 17:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

"British Regiment Attached Travelers"
"Born Rough And Tough."
"Born Raised And Trapped."

[edit] Nominating for FAC

Feel free to join in the conversation.

  • I don't agree with the anonymous edits done on Jan 30, 2007 by 70.244.33.233. Whoever you are, would you care to explain the rationale for your deletions? All you said was "FAC edits" in the edit summary. Given the amount of content removed, I think a justification is necessary. My disagreement with the deletions has nothing to do with removal of anything I contributed. I'm a military brat, but I haven't done any editing whatsoever with the article itself since I only discovered it a few days ago and I added it to my watchlist because the subject matter is meaningful to me. - Itsfullofstars 06:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
That was actually me who made those edits, but the system logged me out while I was working on the edits. I made the edits in response to the FAC review currently going on. I think the criticism was valid---it wasn't the best written section so I've tried to improve it (which means trimming it down for the FAC.) What in particular did you not like?Balloonman 07:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying who did the editing. This one particular section really resonated with me, since I've personally lived it, many times:
Having grown up around the world, military brats often have difficulty answering the simple question, "Where are you from?" They will often respond with "everywhere" or "I'm a military brat."[1]
I was nodding my head when I first read it, saying to myself "Yeah, there's someone who 'gets it'". I realize there's a push to shorten the article to meet the FAC requirements, so some things have to go, but seeing that passage left out prompted me to post here the talk page. - Itsfullofstars 01:14, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Military brat?

The Military brat article currently has little utility on its own. It seems to me like this article should move over to that spot, and then link to the List of Famous Military Brats at the bottom or something. Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jonemerson (talk • contribs) 21:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

Are you talking about this article here? I don't agree at all (best to you personally however). This article is outstanding and covers in rich detail what is special and different about growing up as a military brat.

I think it is more appropriate to leave the 'famous military brats' section as the add-on, it's of interest but less so than explaning what a military brat is.

This article is very well done and covers many interesting dimensions of the brat experience.

Sean7phil 00:19, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Oops! You mean the other 'military brat' (spelled in the singular) article which is no more than a stub. I agree that they should be merged and this one should supercede that one.

I'm sure there are many people surfing to the other page (military brat singular) and missing out on what a brat really is in the process (or missing out in connecting with a good page on their heritage).

sean7phil

67.42.240.96 07:22, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

The other article was originally (after this one took a major US focus) deleted and made into a simple link. It is in its current state because Military Brat is a term not unique to the US. I think that article, eventhough it is a stub, needs to be there. (Although I am not opposed to deleting it either.)Balloonman 00:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I can see your point. As long as that one links to this one, II think that will suffice.

sean7phil

161.98.13.100 17:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I would eliminate the other one. This is a Featured Article, that is a stub. Polymathematics 02:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


That stub may be causing many people to miss this article which is unfortunate.

Maybe this article could somehow (early-on) mention non-American military brats (and the fact that there is little information on them). Would that justify eliminating the stub?

Sean7phil 03:27, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Caption?

I just noticed this caption, which doesn't seem to match the photo. What's it supposed to be?

Operation Enduring Freedom was a celebration of the sacrifices made by marines since 9/11.
Operation Enduring Freedom was a celebration of the sacrifices made by marines since 9/11.

--AW 07:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. That caption really does not match the photograph. OEF is the name given by the U.S. Government to its military response to the September 11th attacks. I'm doubting that the picture is of a serving member of the U.S. Military involved in any OEF theatres during subordinate operations. Also, the description of OEF as "a celebration of the sacrifices made by marines since 9/11" does not really make sense in the context (if at all... describing an ongoing military campaign as a 'celebration' does not seem right). I'm going to change it to something that has more relevance within the articles context. Malbolge 22:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC) Malbolge

[edit] Featured Article

WOW!!! I honestly wasnt' expecting this to pass... I started a new job and I've been working 16-20 hours on it per day... it's been a killer... so I assumed this was going to go down in flames. So to those who voted in favor of it or assisted on getting this up to specs, thanks. Balloonman 15:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article is good, but a little biased

I was very pleased to find this "military brat" entry in Wikipedia. By the author's definition I myself am a "career Air Force brat", and a retired officer with a little "Army brat" of my own.

I must say first that the author has generally gotten it right. Nonetheless, I have serious problems with the "tone" set in the sections on Values and Patriotism ("militaristic songs", indeed!), Discipline (it was the rare family that lived in "Great Santini World"), and Military Classism (the description here sounds more like my mother's childhood days on Army posts in the 1930's - the military has changed since the 1960's).

I'm afraid that a reader unfamiliar with military life [especially one of the many people who already harbor prejudices about military people] would get the sense that "military brats" are raised to become a bunch of brain-washed, jingoistic, goose-stepping Klingons.

In all fairness I suppose I should find and read Ms. Wertsch's book (which appears to be the author's principal source) and figure out where in the world she is coming from. It was probably not the Air Force or Army that I grew up in.

SienkRJ 06:25, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this article uses absolutes to describe military brats-- plus I don't think it overrepresents the patriotism in military culture.

I was fairly liberal as a teenager-- (as was my former military brat mother)-- this, however, did not exclude the values of virtue, honor or patriotism from our lives-- these made strong and lasting imprints and were ubiquitous in the base and near-base communities that I grew up in.

Nor would I define such values as 'jingoistic'.

Wertsch doesn't trade in absolutes either-- she describes the degree of family militarization as being 'on a continuum' (a matter of degree, depending on the family).

And I would not call the 'Great Santini syndrome' 'rare' as you say-- but I wouldn't say that it represents all military familes either--

I would say that there are varied degrees of the Santini syndrome in many military families, just as there are also many gentle military fathers as well.

(Or as in my case-- great Santini at age 11 [immediately post-Vietnam] and a far gentler father later, after he got some help).

Sean7phil 17:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


161.98.13.100 17:41, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] however, it is neither a subjective nor a judgmental term.

The reference for this seems to be POV in itself. I've often heard the term 'military brat' used as a derogatory designation, especially in the educational community.60.49.70.41 10:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Please cite your sources... plus the educational community uses the term military in a derogatory fashion. It's kind of like the educational community using "Republican", "Conservative", "Christian" "Religious" in derogatory manners.... it is meaningless.Balloonman 22:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I very much agree that Academia (in general) has a derogatory view of the military.

I have some good profs too, however. Nevertheless-- mentioning brat heritage in a University (or other 'politically progressive') setting can be treated as an admission of insanity at times. Ridiculous but true.


BTW, I am currently an older student at a University and have at times experienced very stigmatizing reactions as the result of writing about my brat experiences. This has been very discouraging at times. (Although some professors including one currently-- and a lot of fellow students) have been great about it. Some also have really opened up after initial hesitation once they see what kind of person that I am.

    • I can't really blame individuals for this-- it's systemic (the 60's generation ruling the Universities still-- and getting a little carried away-- plus they have blackballed conservative professors to the point where there is no real political debate in academia any more-- which tends to create warped perspectives on issues, including the subject of the military). Sean7phil 17:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I think one of the things to remember is that the people who are critical are not critical of the term "military brat" they are critical of people who grew up in the military/respect the armed forces. It is not a judgment on the term, but rather the individuals personal biases towards a segment of soceity.Balloonman 07:22, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
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