Talk:Middle name
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[edit] Multiple middle names
I have reinserted the sentence on database problems with multiple middle names being sometimes regarded as discriminatory. This sentence was earlier removed by Seibzehn with no reasons given (the fact that it was mislabeled as a minor edit suggests that it may have been unintentional), but I believe it is sufficiently NPOV ("has been criticized"), and it does describe the real experiences of some people with multiple middle names. Vremya 08:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Asian Culture
The "Asian culture" section is misleading:
- Asian Culture: Middle name goes last, so it looks like: Last First Middle. Generally, if an Asian immigrates to the United States, they anglicize their first and middle names (combined), and then add a middle name. For example: Elaine L. Chao: what the L. stands for is unknown, but Elaine is the anglicization of her combined first and middle names.
See Chinese name for details. Furthermore "L" is typically not unknown but the transliteration of the original First and Middle names and thus the anglicized name has 2 middle names. Samw 04:44, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- Yeah, I know, but I was really considering Korean names... as that is how they usually are. And anyway, Elaine Chao's name does fit that explanation... you can change it, though, if you want. ugen64 16:56, Nov 16, 2003 (UTC)
I moved the following here and replaced it with real examples and more explanations:
- but Elaine is the anglicization of her combined first and middle names (perhaps a transliteration of a combination like Eu-Lang, or perhaps an arbitrarily chosen English name to replace some other combination, such as Mei-Ching).
--Menchi 06:29, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Removed "The tradition of middle names may have started with the rulers of Rome, e.g., "Gaius Julius Caesar." because Julius was not a middle name. Julius was Caesar's gens, the family name. Gaius was his proper name and Caesar the cognomen of his Julius branch. See roman naming convention. Muriel 08:09, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I wonder if it is appropriate to say "Usually the first characters of Chinese and Korean given names are considered middle names". For Chinese given names, the two characters together should be as a single name. The concept of "first name" and "middle name" doesn't really apply to Chinese names. It would be really strange if you refer to "Wong Shan Leung" as "Wong Leung" by dropping the "middle" name. Gcc hk 16:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] List of people??
Does Wikipedia have any article on people who are known by their middle name?? Georgia guy 20:25, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Middle name or Middle Initial?
Is it more popular in the USA to use just your middle initial on passports, driver license, ID's? or use the FULL middle name? I rarely see the middle name used on forms or ID's?
[edit] The Greek Middle Name System
I would like to see the Greek middle name system here also. In Greek, I know that the male's middle name is a patronymic: let's say that the father of Konstantinos Papadopoulos is called Pantelis, the full name of Konstantinos would be Konstantinos Panteli Papadopoulos (or Konstantinos Papadopoulos tou Panteli).
What happens with females? Do they also take their father's name (thus Konstantinos Papadopoulos's sister would be Maria Panteli Papadopoulou/Maria Papadopoulou tou Panteli)?
Once I know the information about the females I will edit this article.
Leon. xcvb
[edit] Catholic middle names
The section on "Catholic" middle names seems to relate more to certain local European culture considerations than the wider Church; to the best of my knowledge there is no Church teaching/view on such names (please advise me if I'm wrong). The section should reflect this. Cheers, --Daveb 07:49, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
FYI: In France, Marie is not a middle name in the name Jean-Marie! Jean-Marie is a name composed of two words, but it is a complete name. You would say Jean-Marie when calling somebody named Jean-Marie and not Jean!
Marie or Maria is in German law the only female name allowed also for men. As, by law, the name must reflect the gender, Maria is only allowed as middle name when the other names clearly show whether the holder is male or female. Ipwaz2003 09:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Harvardiana
"Despite their relatively long existence in the Western world, the phrase "middle name" was not recorded until 1835 in "Harvardiana", a school song of Harvard." Hmm just created Harvardiana no sign of "middle name" in it! Rich Farmbrough 16:12, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
- It's a magazine as well.... Rich Farmbrough 16:30, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] The whole concept
I have a big problem with this page. It seems to be predicated on on a false assumption that we have a first name and a surname, and that if we want any extra ones they have to go in between those. This leads to the POV that people who are 'known by their middle name' are somehow going against the natural order of things. In reality, plenty of people (me, for instance) have their 'extra' names placed before their main 'first name' (or even either side of it). My full name is Roy Grant Cribb, but I don't think of Grant as my 'middle name' - it's just my name. If someone asks me my first name, I say Grant. The reason it's Roy Grant rather than Grant Roy, is simply that my parents thought it sounded better that way round. From my point of view, 'central' and 'precursory' names make more sense than 'first' and 'middle', because 'middle names' only apply to people who are 'known by their precursory name'. The NPOV terms should be 'main forename' and 'supplementary forename'. Then it becomes apparent just how ridiculous it is to have a list of people known by middle name. If we had a list of people known by supplementary forename it would be empty, because, by definition, no one is. The only reason the 'middle name' list exists at all is that most of the schizonyms (people whose main forename and surname are separated) just don't realize how many of us juxtonyms there are. Roughly one in three twentieth-century British prime ministers, for instance, had supplementary forenames before their main forename.
What to do about it? I'd recommend scrapping this page and transferring any useful information to Given name. I'd also scrap the 'middle name' list; if it were complete it would contain the names of a large proportion of all the famous people who had ever lived.
The Font 12:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Afterthought: No, better not scrap it. But restrict it to discussion of middle names in naming systems where these have particular significance - or lack of significance. In the common Western convention, the only difference between a 'first' forename and a second, third or fourth is that the most popular position for the main one is at the beginning. The opening paragraph should explain this, and link to Given name for a fuller treatment.
Grant 16:33, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Initial only on Security Documents?
I don't think the statement that "In United States, the middle name is rarely used on official documents. The middle initial is used instead on most identity documents, passports, driver licenses, social security cards, and university diplomas" is totally accurate. This may be a relatively new convention, but I have my full middle name on all those documents (issued between 1998 and this Tuesday).
The US passport has spaces for "Surname" and "Given names". The SSA's latest application for a new Social Security card (dated May 06) specifically asks for the "Full Middle Name" on page 5 [1]. I know some states require only the middle initial whereas others require the full middle name for a driver's license. I think most universities ask you what name you want listed on your diploma; I know mine did. I'm not sure what's meant by identity documents, but if it's not listed on your birth certificate and/or Social Security card, it would seem that it's legally not your middle name. Any input before I edit this statement? JordeeBec 22:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Near East
I would like to know about Russian, Baltic, and Central European naming practices. I know they are not the same as in western countries.
[edit] No Middle Name
"It is also possible for a person to have no middle name, although in modern Western culture this would be the exception rather than the norm." I don't think this is true. In Scandinavia, for instance, it's very common to not have a middle name.
- In Italy too. --necronudist 08:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
