Talk:Microkini

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[edit] Note

Text moved to this page from Talk:Monokini today starts here. -*Ulla* 21:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TALK on MICROKINI

Regarding Sanoinsc's step to remove the link to the Microkinis and Minimal Swimwear Yahoo! group, I have to say the following:

Sanoinsc has been banned from that group and also his groups ("Microkini Enthusiasts" and "Microkinists") have been blacklisted for two reasons:

1. Repeated changing of members' group message delivery settings to whatever he sees fit, i.e. forcing the members to accept Unsolicited Bulk Email (SPAM, according to the definition of anti-spam activism organization Spamhaus). This, despite members' explicit and repeated complains.

2. Continuous and repeated pestering to the female members, pressuring them in a most annoying manner to post photos of themselves.

The sole reason for his actions on Wikipedia was a grudge he (understandably) held. Furthermore, he also removed the link to a very serious and not porn-oriented thong wearers forum (the Thong Wearers Message board). Please note that he attempted to make the external links section of the article a list of links to company-oriented (promotional) communities. Such attitude does not fly well with me and I hope the staff of Wikipedia agree. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 147.27.2.135 (talk • contribs) 20:20, 1 March 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Microkini Rebuttal

Regarding Elp_gr's claims:

1: After changes at Yahoo effecting their "Groups" service (the change from Yahoo "Clubs" to Yahoo "Groups", specifically), there was significant confusion on the part of Members of the "Microkini Enthusiasts" about how to receive messages posted in that Group. Two messages were posted, two weeks apart asking the Membership how they wanted to be contacted. Approximately 2/3 asked to have their Membership status changed to "Special Notices" which included getting regular updates from the Group including a monthly e-mail newsletter but not every message posted, by every Member. Apparently, Member "Elp_gr" (who never responded to either of the 2 messages) had his status changed to receive messages and newsletters and got (and obviously still is) upset about it.

Eventually, that Group was hijacked along with +/- 300 other Yahoo Groups in a well publicized Yahoo security breech. The Members of the Group were notified on two seperate occasions of the hijack and were encouraged to leave the Group permanently. The "Microkini Enthusiasts Group", started in 1995, is in now defunct and Membership continues to drop as people opt out.

2: At no time in the past, now or in the future has there been any pressure on any Yahoo Group Member to post anything, including photos within the "Microkini Enthusiasts" or "Microkinists" groups. Members of the "Microkini Enthusiasts" and "Microkinists" groups are encouraged to participate and many do. However, many more do not, and that is and will remain their choice. That said, if any Member of any Group on Yahoo percieves there to be any sort of pressure by the Group Membership or Owner, it is important to remember that the Groups are FREE and that means Members can leave specific Groups or all Groups at any time with no restrictions.

There is no "grudge" with Elp_gr and one has only to look at the mind numbing and acidic statements on his Yahoo Group "microkiniandminimalswimwear" to understand that any animosity is entirely his.

Wikipedia is a free and open-source information resource and in an effort to keep the best known and documented history of Microkinis posted, a throrough edit of the original and highly inaccurate definition of "Microkini" was in clearly in order. Also, the term "Microkini" has been edited by more than "Sanoinsc" to its current status so this is clearly no personal vendetta.

The links to manufacturers of Microkinis have been included in the Wikipedia page in an effort to direct interested parties to websites that will give them a better understanding of the difference between available products. The originally listed manufacturers were listed in order of their history (oldest in business to newest). It is now in alphabetical order and makes more sense.

A link to "The Thong Wearers Message Board" was removed because it no more relates to microkinis specifically than any other bathing suit-oriented web-site.

~"Elp-gr" is directly associated with a specific Greece-based Microkini manufacturer of knock-off bathing suit products.

~"Sanoinsc" is an attorney, licensed in The State of California, The State of Delaware and Washington D.C., U.S.A. and can verify the above. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.5.145.178 (talk • contribs) 01:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC).

--If you can verify the above, go ahead. Otherwise, you are committing libel. Elp gr 09:28, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of Wikipedia

Again, Wikipedia is a FREE source of information. It is open to anyone to edit and add too.

The following is an excerpt from Wikipedia's own Help Page:

"Wikipedia is an encyclopedia written by its users in over 200 languages worldwide. Anyone can edit Wikipedia, and its contents are free and open. The following articles explain everything about reading, authoring, and participating in the Wikipedia community"

"Anyone" and "Free and Open" are the key words here and the suggestion that it is any way one person's domain is an abuse of the entire concept. No information contributor owns Wikipedia; the point is for it to be informational only.

I've explained the facts relative to "Elp_gr's" incorrect claims and will continue to enjoy what for me is a hobby but I have no intention of letting my name and something I take great pride in, continue to be trashed by someone with no substantive position and one who make erroneous claims with no knowledge of the facts.

Statements and claims made here by "Sanoinsc" are backed by stored and printed source code records, dating back to May 2001 and will gladly be presented, under oath, at the Federal 9th Circuit Court in San Francisco, California anytime you're ready. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.5.145.178 (talk • contribs) 16:54, 2 March 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Proposition: Replacing links with Open Dir or taggin w/ {Cleanup-spam}

First of all, lets's cool down a bit. As I said to Elp gr, I am not into microkinism, so I can not provide with a good third opinion, which is highly required now, as the the argument seems to become an unsolvable personal dispute. Each and every one of us have our Point of view, that is perfectly normal and usually encouraged. However, IMHO, personal claims and unverifiable sources are not appropriate here and cause no more than unnecessary arguments.

Getting to the point, I propose removing all commercial links. As you already know, Wikipedia is not web directory of anything. A quick search with Open Directory Project and Yahoo! Directory did not yield any results. Nevertheless, I think placing an open directory link to all listed maybe the solution to unnecessary quarrels between contributors. I would be grateful, if you could provide with a directory, listing commercial microkini sites and user forums seperately. This would be the absolute solution. Otherwise, article should be tagged with Template:Cleanup-spam.

Hope we could find proper grounds to make the page better. Thanks for your contributions and being here. --Emre D. 15:52, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I checked out this page's history. It was started about a year ago by some user at 147.27.11.160 and it had absolutely no commercial content whatsoever. Even the links that contributor provided were and still are entirely non-commercial and non-promotional. It was 68.5.145.178 who started editing it to take on a more commercial character. Just my $.02 by looking at the early versions of this page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.103.22.25 (talk • contribs) 14:43, 3 March 2006.
~As it should be. Thanks to you for moderating. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.5.145.178 (talk • contribs) 19:06, 2 March 2006 (UTC).
~I could find only one directory listing microkini sites. However, being a closed and adult-oriented directory, I am not sure whether it would be plausible or not. So I am putting cleanup tag, but not touching the links, yet. Still, if you find alternative listings (maybe with alternative names), please feel free to add it to the page. Thanks for your contributions.... --Emre D. 00:56, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
~I think it might be best to just remove all of the links in a permamnent way. Since four of the current links are directly related to a specific commercial web-site, users may find the information entirely commercial which has not been the intention. --Sanoinsc. 68.5.145.178 04:05, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Four links directly related to a specific commercial web-site? Care to tell us which ones they are? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.103.22.25 (talk • contribs) 14:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC).
~Correction, there are three links that are all interrelated. Aphamoda is listed twice and the "microkini and minimal swimwear group" is a sales conduit for Alphamoda, run by "Elp_gr" for promotion thereof. Simply put, if the Microkini information page at Wikipedia is going to be a commercial advertisement for manufactuers, than it should be a fully open free-for-all and "Elp_gr" should not be able to remove links anymore than anyone else. Otherwise, eliminate ALL the links and make the page strictly informative --Sanoinsc 68.5.145.178 15:10, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

~~Further reading;

this is blatant advertising on his part, even worse it has no entries! Mathmo 12:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

This argument seems to go nowhere. Anyway, let's sum the points of the argument.

  1. There are no obvious objections about the main informative section.
  2. Links to manufacturer's should be deleted. (see. not web directory )
  3. Links to user forums can remain, but as for personal disputes between yourselves, my opinion is to remove them too.

After an uncertain period of time, when both parties cool down, the article can be rebuild with a more constructive cooperation.

And about Wikipedia being a "fully open free-for-all" medium; it is true for most of the time. You can edit whatever you want and change whatever you want, with factual material. There is a catch though, you can do these unless someone objects. And this is why we have been writing here, we are trying to solve a verdict, in a civil manner.

One more thing, as microkinism also seems to be social statement, one of you should add a line about microkinism and microkini supporting community. At least, the reader should be tempted to do an internet search after reading this statement.

By the way, please contribute after logging-in, in order to keep track of what is said by who. This makes a lot of things easier. :))

Thanks for your contributions.

P.S. Links removed. --Emre D. 23:25, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Back to Allowing Select Manufacturers Links

Predictably, the links to specifc manufacturers have reappeared here. Also predictably, they are exactly as the were when "elp_gr" modifed them in the first place.

Is there some way to make this listing informational only or is it now alright to post commercial links?

I wasn't the one who put the links back. Besides, last year, when I started this entry, I hadn't put up any links to ANY manufacturers. Instead, I had given links to strictly NON-COMMERCIAL websites. It was Sano that added commercial links. And if Sano can do it, then why shouldn't I (or everyone else, for that matter), add other makers' links? Elp gr 00:13, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Wicked Weasel should certainly be included, is famous for providing exactly this type of clothing. Doubt any others could claim greater fame to it than them. Mathmo Talk 10:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
added it, by use of an internal link as is how it is meant to be done.so there is no external link on this page to the manufacture Mathmo Talk 10:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

All the text above is moved to this page from Talk:Monokini today. -*Ulla* 21:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] gallery








Arqx5 added this gallery, which was removed for the reason "maybe a bit too many images there". But thought it best to paste into the talk, so it is kept here because it could be put into the article. Or perhaps a smaller selection of images. Mathmo Talk 09:40, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

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