User talk:Mfields1 2005-2006/Archive 1

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Contents 1 Cincinnati area 2 Maritime Victory 3 Foundryman 4 Bishop Elder letter to Abraham Linclon 5 Thank you! 6 Helmer Swenholt 7 Throughbred racing project 8 Welcome to the Military history WikiProject! 9 Military history WikiProject coordinator election - vote phase! 10 US 15th Army 11 Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue VI - August 2006 12 RE: Cincinnati Reds 13 Sorry 'bout that 14 Cincinnati Red Stockings 15 WP:CIVIL 16 Zantop crash 17 CJR flight manual 18 WikiProject Military history Newsletter - Issue VII - September 2006 19 The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue VIII - October 2006 20 JV44 21 Thanks 22 Hans Ekkehard Bob 23 Hans Ekkehard Bob / Awards and Photo 24 The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue IX - November 2006 25 FAC vote 26 Services of Supply Page 27 Southern Airways Flight 932 28 The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue X - December 2006

Cincinnati area

I noticed your Cincinnati area (and Catholic) edits. Kudos on your contributions and I hope you are able to add more in the future (including perhaps the Dayton area, where I'm from). Thanks --Dpr 06:22, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Maritime Victory

I stand corrected. I think it was the SS (for sovereign ship) that confused me.Bjones 03:37, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

"SS" can also mean steam ship. Mfields1 12:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Foundryman

What is your interest in foundrymen? Any connection to grey metal foundries in Ohio/Indiana? [[Mpmartin 10:44, 9 April 2006 (UTC)]] any connection to the Gartland foundries???

Hmm...a lot of people will spell it "gray iron", I prefer grey too. Mfields1 12:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Bishop Elder letter to Abraham Linclon

Regarding your page on a letter to Abraham Lincoln (forgive me, the other party's name slips my mind at the time, see [1] for help, and I'll see what can be done for the wiki page. Yanksox 15:40, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, didn't know about Wikitext but maybe it's where it belongs. Mfields1 12:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!

You may also be interested in another article I've started, Lehigh Crane Iron Company. Choess 23:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Helmer Swenholt

Congratulations on doing the work on Helmer Swenholt. Feel free to use the monobook tool to reduce unnecessary date links on other articles of interest to you. Regards bobblewik 13:29, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Throughbred racing project

A number of Wikipedians have come together and formed the WikiProject Throughbred racing to help to expand and better organise information in articles and categories related to the sport of thoroughbred racing. As a past contributor to horse racing articles, we invite you to consider becoming a participant in the project, and/or adding the page to your watchlist so that you become aware, and can join any future horse racing discussions, which may be of interest to you. Regards - Cuddy Wifter 23:43, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to the Military history WikiProject!

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US 15th Army

Thanks for the note. I will not claim to be an expert in getting articles up to FA status but I was a player in getting some military unit articles up to GA status. Take a look at 2nd Battalion 9th Marines and 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit for examples of military articles that have reached GA status. There may be some ideas from these pages that are worth incorporating into the article. The biggest thing is references and in line notes. I will help out where I can. Cheers --Looper5920 23:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

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RE: Cincinnati Reds

Of course I did not put a reference; I was explaining a revert not attempting to cite a fact. If you want to put a "citation needed" tag at the end of the line I certainly have no problem with that as it is a fact that should be cited, but it is also not a particularly controversial one. The Red Stockings were likely the first team to pay all of its members, but this cannot be proven concretely as there is no dispute that some teams were paying at least their star players either an under-the-table salary or giving them menial jobs and then grossly overpaying them before that time, perhaps as early as Jim Creighton who played in the early 1860s. The breakthrough of the Red Stockings was that they openly acknowledged their professional nature and showed other teams the advantage in prestige and profits that came with fielding a professional team. Indrian 18:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, if and where I call the NABBP "all-amateur" before 1869, that means every club formally amateur, professional clubs ineligible for association membership, same as colored clubs ineligible. It doesn't mean any club purely amateur or any particular player amateur in any particular sense. "All" quantifies the clubs. --P64 18:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry 'bout that

I removed the Singapore link by accident. The taxiway re-routing is very likely a red herring here based on what I've seen of the airport and signage. --chris.lawson 00:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you can't imagine it, but until there is a link, any implication or claim that the two are related would be original research.--chris.lawson 18:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Again, you're speculating. Certainly something did confuse the pilots, both in taking the wrong runway and in continuing the takeoff roll when instrument indications (should have) indicated they were using the wrong runway. But until we know what that something was, it is pointless to speculate, and it's certainly not something that should be done in an article. (Of course, it's not hurting anything to do it on Talk pages.)--chris.lawson 23:43, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I just wanted to say that there has been a RfC. regarding Comair Flight 5191 Since you have been a contributor to the article, I encourage you to add to the debate and to contribute to the article, in the future. Mytwocents 05:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Cincinnati Red Stockings

Mfields, Intrigued by the tidbits in Ellard (1908), I wrote a biography of founding president Alfred T. Goshorn only Friday. In a moment I will tweak it and remove the biography stub tag. There is also an Ohio stub but I don't know a good Ohio tag (category or project) for when I remove that one. As a military and Cincinnati historian, you may be intrigued that Ellard (b1859?) calls him "General Goshorn", presumably for his famous service as Director-General of the Centennial Expo.

The Red Stockings article is still growing. Perhaps it will soon need splitting but that is something for the article Talk. --P64 17:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

WP:CIVIL

I sure hope this wasn't a veiled threat, because if it was, it's a blatant violation of civility policy.--chris.lawson 01:12, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Zantop crash

That's not the only thing the two sources disagree on. For example, the phase of flight in which the airplane crashed (landing vs. approach to landing), what happened afterward (burned vs. exploded; there's a difference!), and how many crew there were (three vs. two). Although each source would be, on its own, reliable, since they obviously conflict except in gross detail (that the airplane was a DC-4 and it crashed near CVG) we need a better reference. Unfortunately, the NTSB's Internet-accessible archives only go back to 1962.--chris.lawson 01:22, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I have found a third source which names the TWO crewmen in the DC-4 when it crashed. This newspaper account says it crashed near KY 20. KY 20 is on the approach. I have also located a person who tells me their mother worked at the airport at the time of the crash. She was driving on KY 20 when a crewmember stepped out of the woods on KY 20. We could debate the two terms "landing" vs. "approach to landing". I'm not a flight instructor so I won't debate it, since it could have said "landing phase" or "approach" or something similar and it would not make much difference. This is a technicality to debate. I would concede that to only say "landing" then it give the reader the idea that it actually touched down with wheels on the runway. However, if you would re-read the two sources I have included, it is very clear that the 1st source is a table that shows the Phase which the accident occurred in is "Landing". While this database sometimes lists "Approach" as a separate flight phase, it is a merely a database. This confirms that the accident happend by a seperate source, beside the Time article, and gives only minimal facts. The Time article on the other hand, and the newspaper article I have found, both indicate the crashed aircraft finally "came to rest" if you will, near KY 20. That road is just short of the runway. It's a technicality whether to state the exact term but I will use "approach" when I rewrite the description.

The other part you questions was the difference between exploded and burned. I won't argue that difference but I will point out in this case it may have initially exploded and then burned, or may have burned only. Since it is a DC-4 with gasoline engines it is possible the gas would have exploded. I will write "Burned" because an explosion only does not result in later burning when it is controlled. This was not controlled.

Further research I have uncovered says the airline was named Zantop Flying Service until 1962. The crash was late in the year so it later named Zantop Air Transport. Mfields1 22:05, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Considering that the ASN database is getting its data from NTSB summaries, I'd be curious to know why the newspaper account and Time only mention two crewmembers, but the ASN clearly mentions three. What we really need here is an NTSB report -- does Embry-Riddle have it in their database, in PDF format?--chris.lawson 03:45, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I have not found the report but will ask my nephew to locate it. Mfields1 10:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

CJR flight manual

Flight manual is available here User:Pedant 17:18, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

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JV44

I cannot name any squadron with more pilots having more victories than JV44. But I would also object to this as the criteria for defining a "most elite" fighter squadron. By that token few if any free world squadrons could begin to match up to those of the Nazis. In any case my objection was to the word "most" without out any country of origin modifier. It asserts a value judgment, i.e. a POV statement. I qualified it by country of origin only so that it would otherwise stand. Consider this, though: those pilots were collected from around the Reich and the overwhelming numbers of their kills were not connected with JV44. The aces may be among the elite, but the squadron's accomplishments were average, for whatever reason, at the least. If you want to revert my correction, I'm not going to revert it back--but the article should be encyclopedic, and IMHO the previous assertion smacked a little too much of admiration. Erich Hartmann had 352 kills, and most were against Stalin's air force, and he paid for his participation with 10 years of his life, never saw his little boy grow up, and became a respected pilot in the postwar Luftwaffe--but he also flew for Hitler, in an enterprise that killed 20 million Russians, and nothing will ever live that down in my view. best of luck.--Buckboard 06:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

If my reaction that "elite" elicited admiration was wrong, I apologize. However the point about Hartmann was to illustrate (not to you, but in general--see the tone of his wikipedia article) why "admiration" is misplaced, namely that gallantry, suffering, even penitence (if that applies) cannot counter-balance what the acts abetted. For me its why neutral tone is very important.

Thanks

Hi Mark,

thank you in helping me to bring some part of the article JV 44 into the correct spelling. Maybe, if you have time take a look into my new article Hans Ekkehard Bob

Klaus

Hans Ekkehard Bob

Unfortunately, WP:RS doesn't allow us to use primary sources as references, and this would include books written by the subject and interviews performed by the person writing the article (that latter would be considered original resarch. We need some more third-party references. Thanks for the kind words on my Talk page. But then, I just archived it. It does get full after a while.  :) User:Zoe|(talk) 00:44, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Hans Ekkehard Bob / Awards and Photo

Hi Mark, good morning.

An other day on duty :-)

I have the permission of Hans Ekkehard Bob to use one of his photos, but dont know what copyright mark to use. I will upload one and leave it in your hands then. I wrote Wikipedia about it, but didnt get useful help in this.

I have seen that you have something written about the Awards, I think that the best way. As reference use the list we are using in our Website, see my or your personal account.

Way to go buddy, thanks for your help

Klaus

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FAC vote

Since you have contributed on the peer review Joseph W. Tkach, would you be so kind as to vote on the FAC?? Thanks. --RelHistBuff 16:16, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The article was promoted to FA on 3 December with a 4-0 result. Many thanks for your comments and support! I hope to bring more articles to FAC soon. --RelHistBuff 10:28, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Services of Supply Page

Please note the Army's Services of Supply was eliminated in 1942, not created. The Services of Supply became the Army Service Forces. The Army Services Forces remained in existence until the end of the war. See Millet, "The Organization and Role of the Army Service Forces," U.S. Army In WWII Series, Office of the Chief of Military History, 1954 for more information. 14thArmored 2030 Hours, 29 October 2007

Please refer to: http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/160.html Headquarters Army Service Forces [ASF] was established nn the War Department by General Order 14, War Department, March 12, 1943. Mfields1 10:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me. I misread my source. Sorry for the trouble. Thanks again. 14thArmored 1100 Hours, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Southern Airways Flight 932

I initiated a discussion and have done two reverts to restore the page to its previous state at Talk:Southern Airways Flight 932. There is no reason why the infobox and memorial must be deleted. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 00:40, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The references utilise the <ref>INSERT REFERENCE</ref> tags for easy referencing. They can be given names, such as <ref name="test">INSERT REFERENCE</ref> so that later on if you want to reuse a reference, you can just type in <ref name="test"/> instead of typing out the same reference again and again. See this page for more details. Cheers Seicer (talk) (contribs) 00:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

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