Talk:Mexican Executive Cabinet

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[edit] Ministries or secretariats? (i.e. Secretariat of XYZ, Ministry of XYZ, XYZ Secretariat, Department of XYZ?)

• I vote for Secretariat of XYZ, sounds quite similar to what we have in Spanish. Ruiz 02:16, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• I think Secretariat is more accurate than Ministry. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 10:23, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• (1) I'm torn between secretariats and ministries. I don't particularly like departments, mainly because many secretarías have departamentos as an administrative level within their structures beneath direcciones and direcciones generales and because of anomalous things like the Departamento del Distrito Federal (not a "department" in the cabinet-secretary sense of the word). Secretariats is closer to the original, no doubt about that, but I have serious doubts about its recognisability as an equivalent term for "ministry" or "department" -- the word is very rare, in the English-speaking world, outside the context of the general secretariats and the like of international organisations. Ministry strikes me as more of a generic (non-country-specific) term -- and a more comprehensible one -- but, obviously, it's further from the original Spanish. (2) On a related note: ministers or secretaries? We've got a bit of a mish-mash at the moment. I suppose this depends on what we choose to call the secretarías. Although maybe having a secretariat headed by a minister or a ministry headed by a secretary would be a useful compromise, on that also covers all our terminological bases? –Hajor 13:54, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm pretty sure other Latin American countries have secretarías as well, so this wouldn't be a case were the usage is exclusively Mexican; however I do agree is not used very often in English beyond the uses Hajor already outlined. In any case, since we have to explain anyway that a secretaría is a cabinet-level office, I don't see the problem with using "ministry" as a more understable term for the general readership. Personally I wouldn't be too comfortable using "department" as it strikes me as too U.S.-oriented. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 15:31, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Strictly Secretariat is the correct term. (I also think that Department of XYZ works but it is, as Rune says too U.S.-oriented, anyway i have been working a lot on this using the U.S. way). Ministry is not an accurate way to name the mexican Secretarias de Estado, as we all know Mexico has no ministers and a Ministry is defined as the governmental department presided over by a minister, BUT there is this curious fact: if you browse the official website of any Secretariat (STPS or SECTUR for instance) you will notice that in the official English version they use Ministry instead of Secretariat so i will also vote for using Ministry as a more understable term for the general readership. Abögarp 16:21, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
    • As far as I'm aware, the Dominican Rep. has cabinet-level secretarías. Some of the others have secretarías, too, but as subsidiary divisions within ministries (Argentina) or as special "staffs" attached to (e.g.) the president's office (Guatemala). Dunno; maybe there are others, too. As for what the govt itself uses, under Zedillo Presidencia's style was for "departments" (and, most vomitously, IMHO, "House of Representatives"); under Fox that appears to have changed to Secretariats. But in contrast to that, SRE's passports still read "Ministry of Foreign Affairs". The English-language stories on the El Universal website appear to use Secretariat, as did, I think, the old Mexico City Times. I find myself warming towards "Secretariat". (And weren't they all ministerios at one point, prior to restructuring/renaming in the 1950s? If so, calling the modern ones "ministries" will cause no end of problems if we ever get into the history.) I'm still not sure, but maybe the way to go is: "The Secretariat of Foreign Affairs (Spanish: Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores) is Mexico's foreign ministry..." –Hajor 14:56, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Since sooner or later we are bound to get into the history of each secretaría maybe it would be quite sensible to translate the term to "secretariat" instead since it reflects current usage. Maybe we should start compiling a list of secretarías with acceptable translations into English already. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 15:41, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
• Revealed consensus seems to favor "secretariats" and "secretaries". Can we enshrine that as policy on the project page, and proceed with the names of the individual secretariats? –Hajor 03:02, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes' -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 09:05, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes. See the Category:Mexican Executive Cabinet, I have already created some articles including historic cabinet positions. Abögarp 13:18, 25 October 2005 (UTC)