Talk:Mewtwo

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mewtwo article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

Mewtwo was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision if you feel there was a mistake. Date of review: 19:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 possible trivia 2 Mewtwo's Attacks 3 Clone note 4 Removal of Pokédex Information 5 Large-Scale Edits Coming 6 Main Article/Anime Article Merge 7 Pokemon R/B/Y Origin (Mew - Mewtwo) 8 "He" or "it"? 9 !Category:Fictional cats 10 Color or Colour? 11 Ongoing debate about whether Mew is stronger 12 Old comments from Mewtwo (anime) 13 Penises 14 Anime Section status 15 GA Failing 16 Why is there a huge section on battle tactics? 17 Evolving Mew? 18 Why revert the name comment? 19 Voice Actor? 20 Comfirm this... QUICK

[edit] possible trivia

Mewtwo's design bears a minor resemblance to the Gyiyg boss sprite from the Famicom game Mother(Earthbound Zero). And his motivations in the anime seem rather similar to X-Men villain Magneto, as does his taking others of his "kind" to a place of solitude. Either of thsoe noteworthy to mention?206.162.192.39 00:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

No. OR + unverifiable. -Jeske ^{(v^_^v)} 01:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mewtwo's Attacks

I think that some of Mewtwo's attacks may be ones that have now been named. I think that Mewtwo's energy bally ar actually Shadow Ball attacks and when Mew and Mewtwo shoot beams at eachother, that may be the first time that Superpower was used. Does anyone agrre? Please add to this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.135.212.88 (talk • contribs) .

Well, I can't say I would agrre with the notion that the battle scene in the first movie marked the first time the 3rd generation move Superpower was used, for that would not be a good thing to put in an encyclopedia that demands verifiability for everything. Same goes with Shadow Ball. Erik the Appreciator 23:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Does that mean you cant put in theories? TheGuyThat WroteAtTheTop

Yeah. Theories are practically taboo in Wikipedia articles because they aren't verifiable. It is verifiable that Mewtwo can be taught Shadow Ball by technical machine in Gold & Silver and Ruby & Sapphire, but it is not verifiable that Mewtwo was using Shadow Ball in the first movie. These rules don't come from myself, by the way; The rules that say "theories are not to be put in articles" are found in Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No_original_research. Cheers, Erik the Appreciator 16:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clone note

Well, I was having trouble with the phrasing of the following passage, so maybe we can iron something out in the Talk page. First, the passage in question:

"However, this is an incorrect use of the word "clone", since Mewtwo is not genetically identical to Mew; this is similar to the series' use of the word "evolution" to refer to a Pokémon metamorphosing."

I didn't mean anything about Mew evolving into Mewtwo; I included that as an example of how the Pokémon franchise misuses terms occasionally. Pokémon evolution isn't evolution in scientific terms; it's a metamorphosis. The same way, Mewtwo isn't Mew's clone - he/she/it may have been created from Mew's genes, but whatever Mewtwo is in relation to Mew, he/she/it is not Mew's clone; Mewtwo is, well, Mewtwo, not a being geneticially identical to Mew. --Sparky Lurkdragon 22:59, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

A Link to the Past, you say Mewtwo is somehow a half-clone of Mew and a half-cone of Blaine. Um... where did that come from? Please excue me, as I'm something of a videogame purist when it comes to the Pokémon franchise (although I am still working on LeafGreen), so if it was in the anime or one of the mangas or something, I won't have heard of it. I certainly don't remember anything about that from the games. Even if it is true, it's still a rather bizarre use of the word "clone" - the phrases "created from the DNA of" or "created by combining the DNA of" would probably work better.

Anyhow, if it is from the anime, perhaps that bit should go into the anime section; in any case, please state your sources. --Sparky Lurkdragon 01:00, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

It comes from Pokémon Adventures. We need a better description of the origins in general; in the games, it's an error in attempting to genetically engineer an improved Mew, in the anime, it's a successful Team Rocket project to make a weapon from Mew's DNA, and in the Pokémon Adventures manga it's created from a combination of Mew's and Blaine's DNA. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 01:08, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps an "origins" or "history" or something of that nature header with a note that acconts vary between the games, the anime, and Pokémon Adventures, with subheaders that detail Mewtwo's origins in each of those is in order?

And I still say the article needs some note somewhere about "clone" being misused. --Sparky Lurkdragon 03:49, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

I think the correct term would be, "Genetic Alteration"--Qwerty The 3rd 21:15, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of Pokédex Information

Pokédex information was added into this article. Adding this information into the article does not conform with copyright- I [deleted the addition. The infomration may be readded if it is inserted into the article as continous prose in using different words, because then it hasn't been taken from the game and so cannot be subject to copyright. This is true of all Pokémon articles; I've not checked any of the other ones for Pokédex information but if it is found it must be deleted/reworded. Thanks. Deskana (talk) 22:03, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Large-Scale Edits Coming

I'm here to advertise a titanic-sized rewrite for this page that I've been working on for over a several-week period and plan to be implementing sometime the next week, including a new separate article on Mewtwo's role in the Pokemon anime. A mostly complete draft version of the anime page is posted in my sandbox, link accessible from my user page, so basically I'm inviting people to take a look at the page and leave any comments they might think is important before I go ahead with the input. (To those of you considering this message, I hand out kudos.) Thanks for your time. (And by the way, it wasn't me who deleted the anime info previously on the page, but some IP address saying "(Mewtwo's Weakness)". Erik the Appreciator 03:18, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't merge the anime info on the separate page I just created, because I'm also going to be giving huge edits to the Characteristics and Game Info sections that would easily make the Mewtwo article as long as Pikachu's article, if not longer. The characteristics and game info are now posted in my personal sandbox on my userpage, so check it out and join in on any discussion about what I'm up to. Thanks for your time. Erik the Appreciator 21:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, well, right now the page is at its cleanest, and is now in the process of being condensed further, though I find it hard to imagine that this can be merged back into the main article. If you think it can be condensed enough to do so, feel free to join in the discussion at my user-talk page. Erik the Appreciator 03:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Main Article/Anime Article Merge

Yeah, as you can see, merging all the info in the Mewtwo Anime article into the main article makes the page longer than any Pokemon article. That's why I split it into two pages in the first place. Actually, what I should do now is write a one-paragraph synopsis about Mewtwo's anime character in the main page, leaving the details link accessible to the anime page, where that is where the cruft should belong... but if I'm wrong, please tell me! Erik the Appreciator 17:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I do believe Mewtwo does deserve a rather long page, simply because of the fact that Mewtwo is a very special Pokemon. He's one of the few human-made Pokemon (two others I can think of are the two Porygon versions). Asides from that, Mewtwo has a complex history. I do think it's worth noting about Ambertwo. However, a lot of the anime-article can probably be scrapped, seeing as it isn't fully relevant in relation to Mewtwo. Asides from Mewtwo's Origin, the article contains too much information which isn't relevant for most people.

On a side-note, how did you know the names of the three other trainers whose Pokemon got cloned?

--GaryCXJk 20:55, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

First of all, it wasn't me who put in anything about that visual clone table section, it was some IP address who implemented the whole thing, including those names. Now, this page is basically meant to give an overview of all the Mewtwo appearances in the Pokemon continuity, similar to the Palpatine article for Star Wars and how it describes seemingly everything about the six episodes as it applies to him. (This anime page is actually somewhat shorter.) Once The Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon airs this weekend, info about it as it concerns Mewtwo would be added here because it is a new apparently major appearance for Mewtwo, and gathering synopses about each appearance in one place is what this anime page is for. Erik the Appreciator 17:49, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I am wondering, will that merge tag at the top of the page ever be taken down? At this point I'd be willing to delete the anime page and move all the movie images into Pokemon: The First Movie and Pokemon: Mewtwo Returns, if that's what it will take to remove that annoying tag. Thoughts? Erik the Appreciator 01:43, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for redirecting it; I was honestly starting to get appalled by what I had created. The anime info on the Mewtwo Page, taken with the info on the two Mewtwo movie pages, is indeed sufficient. My apologies for having tried to make a separate anime page when there were three others that covered what was in there. Erik the Appreciator 04:46, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pokemon R/B/Y Origin (Mew - Mewtwo)

In the Mewtwo page, it says:

"Also shown in the Red, Blue, and Yellow version Pokemon games is a diary entry from a scientists in Cinnabar Islands burned down mansion stating "Diary: Feb. 6 MEW gave birth." Seeing how the Red and Blue Versions came before all the other game franchises, this shows that Mewtwo was orignally born from Mew's Womb; not a clone."

However, the Mew page says this:

"According to the diaries on Cinnabar, Mew wound up somehow giving birth to Mewtwo, although it is highly possible that this was a metaphor for Mew being the subject they were trying to clone."

I think the last description gives a proper image, and is more correct. The GBA games all state that Mewtwo was genetically created, and so do all normal Gameboy games. --GaryCXJk 21:05, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "He" or "it"?

I can understand how Mewtwo comes off as masculine, but, like all legendary Pokémon, it's neuter. Its trophy blurbs in Super Smash Bros. Melee refer to it using neuter pronouns. If the Game Boy games contradict that and pretend it's male when it comes to grammar, fine, we can consider that canon and follow suit. If it's only the anime that makes that mistake, though, or only the article-writers are (as I suspect may be the case), I think we ought to change all the "he"s to "it"s. Any objections? —Saric (Talk) 01:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

"It" is fine with me, Mewtwo is neuter. Dionyseus 06:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, sure, you can change it to whatever fits better, but bear in mind that I used "he" in the anime page because most of the fan community calls "him" a male, because among Pokemon Mewtwo is rather human-like in personality. On the main page I wrote it as "it" but somebody else changed it all to "he". Erik the Appreciator 16:59, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Could refer to Mewtwo as an 'it', with a note that many fans use the male pronoun.

Personally, I say 'he', but that's just because I assign gender to all Pokemon, Legendary or no, 'it' in game text or no. The canon uses 'it', and so should the article. --Sparky Lurkdragon 22:17, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

All right, the deed is done. This article now treats Mewtwo as neuter. —Saric (Talk) 00:52, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] !Category:Fictional cats

Does Mewtwo count as a fictional cat? After all, he is a clone of Mew (who does indeed fit into the category), and he is feline in appearance and characteristics, certainly. NP Chilla 21:08, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Definitely. I added it to Category:Fictional cats and List of fictional cats. —Saric (Talk) 14:33, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Color or Colour?

I think this is the rule regarding British/US spellings: Whatever was put first by the original writer stays.
Am I correct?
Or could I change this to "color"? - Dogman15 04:24, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

From the Manual of Style:

• Articles should use the same dialect throughout.
• If an article's subject has a strong tie to a specific region/dialect, it should use that dialect.
• Where varieties of English differ over a certain word or phrase, try to find an alternative that is common to both.
• If no such words can be agreed upon, and there is no strong tie to a specific dialect, the dialect of the first significant contributor (not a stub) should be used.

Since there is no reigon-neutral term for colo(u)r that I'm aware of and since the rest of the article uses "color", I've changed it. --Sparky Lurkdragon 05:24, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ongoing debate about whether Mew is stronger

To the person who keeps adding this - where are you getting this from? Mewtwo has higher base stats than Mew, and it says in one of the movies (and probably in the games, I forget) that Mewtwo is stronger. Also, in all the years I've spent on pokemon forums and the like, I've never noticed this ongoing discussion. -- Steel 10:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not in the talk pages on wikipedia, but on the web. I'll still add it anyway, and in Mewtwo Strikes Back, they were pretty evenly matched. 61.230.78.55 12:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old comments from Mewtwo (anime)

“

Plan for Page The content of this page may end up going back onto the anime section of the main Mewtwo article in highly condensed form, and that's what this page will be used for in that case. I'm now working to condense the detailed info into a far more reasonable, summarized size. You are invited to help out with both page edits and suggestions in this talk page. Thanks for the attention. Erik the Appreciator 19:07, 1 March 2006 (UTC) Hm, okay, actually this page doesn't seem like it can have much more condensing work put on it. The information here I think is not overly crufty, so therefore this page probably won't end up merged into the main Mewtwo page. Like I note on my user page, what might be done with this page is to 'make it a joint Mewtwo-and-Mew-in-the-anime article, because that may warrant the length of the page. Also, I believe the info here can be copied and pasted to the respective Pokemon movie pages. Erik the Appreciator 21:41, 7 March 2006 (UTC) This seems to be an issue with quite a number of Pokémon character pages, where some quite major characters have the same name as their species (Ash's Pikachu, TR's Meowth, and the major characters of the movies such as Mewtwo, et al). In cases such as Mewtwo whose personality in the anime is more fully developed, there is probably little justification (IMHO anyway) in merging the page on the character Mewtwo from Movie #1 and Mewtwo Lives, with the page on the Mewtwo species of Pokémon. (On another note, has anyone else noticed in the subtitles for the first movie, Mewtwo is occasionally listed as Meowth?) Kain 17:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

”

—Minun ^Spiderman 19:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Penises

Last Time I looked at this there was 4 pictures of some dude's penis on the top page (check the history). I am deleting them.

From the 'Pokemon: The First Movie' section onwards someone has filled the article with sexual content. Can someone fix this? 211.30.148.80 13:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)t3h Camz0r

What in the freaking heck is wrong w/ this guy's head? Animine 04:51, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anime Section status

Oh, now, waitaminute! Having all the content from that Mewtwo anime page (which I now realize was written too in-depth and just duplicated information on the two Mewtwo Movie articles) onto this page makes it far too long and bloated. I think this page's section was pretty fine the way it was beforehand. I would have it reverted, but if not, then I'll try to at least have it pared way, way down. Erik the Appreciator 03:39, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, so I did a major rewriting and cleanup job of the entire article, especially the anime section, and I think we can work from here on out to continually make it less bloated. All help appreciated, of course. Erik the Appreciator 22:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is the right place to note this, but I reorganized the anime section a little bit to mention the voice actor information first, and I made some changes to the anime section by adding some perspective on just HOW Mewtwo is treated differently from other Pokemon. The article as was didn't really provide any perspective on the fact that not all Pokemon are treated as complex, humanlike characters. Anyway, I'm wondering if the things I notied are apparent from the anime itself or if I should cite the novelization, which spells out Mewtwo's "humanity" very bluntly. Along that line, I noticed some people discussing the names of the other three trainers at New Island in the first movie up in the Anime merge section; their names (Neesha, Fergus, and Corey) are given in the novelization of the film, if no one knew that. Um... I hope I didn't screw anything. Brie 09:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Failing

Bad prose, lack of references, über cruft areas, FUR and POV. Needs a lot of work. Highway ^{Return to Oz...} 19:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Right, all I had time to do was at least get a handle on the chaos, what with the posting of ALL of that admittedly unacceptable anime info onto the main article (I still think that was unnecessary). I believe the article is now in a fair position to be given a load of altering by everyone at WP:POKE as a "Current Species Article Focus" or whatever you'd like. When that happens, don't be arrange to remove / switch around the movie screen images as you see fit, because I already have them in the relevant movie articles anyway, and don't be afraid to tell me what I should do to fix the problems that I made for Mewtwo in the past. Just want to help out. Erik Jensen ^{(I appreciate talk!)} 21:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why is there a huge section on battle tactics?

I just got rid of a game guide-esque SSBM section, but thought it best to raise the issue here before removing 5 beefy paragraphs of battle tactics. That section needs to be seriously cut down per WP:NOT and all that. -- Steel 22:11, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh sure, I can write something that's about 2 or 3 paragraphs thick, though it may cut out more important information than is probably healthy for the article, but I'll have to wait until I try it to see if important info is cut out or not by a BIG shortening. Pretty much everything seen on the page was written a half-year-ago by myself when I was more of a greenhorn and less aware of Wikipedia's policies. I honestly apologize to everyone for having done all that to the article in the past and bloating it to bad proportions, really. :( Erik Jensen ^{(I appreciate talk!)} 05:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

However, the last time I checked, every article about a character that's playable in a Smash Bros. Game has relevant info about it somewhere in the article, so removing the full section about Mewtwo in Melee is overkill. I think one paragraph about that would suffice. Erik Jensen ^{(I appreciate talk!)} 05:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The current section details how to unlock Mewtwo and how he's a low tier character. As I said in the edit summary, this is all game guide-esque and forum nonsense which needs to go. -- Steel 15:42, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, fair enough. I still think that there can be more than just one sentence about it; Be sure to check the Smash Bros. related info in the Pikachu article for comparison to see what kind of info can be added to make the bit not seem tacked on. Erik Jensen ^{(I appreciate talk!)} 04:09, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Evolving Mew?

Check this out! It might be fake but I was just wondering . . . --Zeldamaster3 15:38, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I saw that one some time ago! It is either a fake or an extremely undiscussed glitch. It certainly is not notable enough to be included in either the Mew or Mewtwo articles, though. Erik Jensen ^{(I appreciate talk!)} 21:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

This is probably created by some crazed fanfic writer. What's next, evolving into Mewthree?!? --SaturnYoshi 22:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why revert the name comment?

User:SaturnYoshi reverted my comment on Mewtwo's name:

The English names of many Pokémon creatures resemble other English words or combinations of words (i.e. Squirtle sounds like a combination of squirt and turtle). Mewtoo may be a reference to the popular Japanese-made aircraft, the Mitsubishi Mu-2.

He/she gave this reason:

Mewtwo's name origin is already mentioned at the top. It is simply just a combination of Mew's name with the number two. Also, this is its Japanese name as well.

I understand that Mewtwo's name is a combination of Mew and the number two, I'm not an idiot. I was just pointing out that there may be something behind the name that the average person may not catch. My first reaction when I heard the name Mewtwo was "Ah-ha, there's an aviation fan on the writing staff". Yes, it could be a coincidence but readers can decide that for themselves. I don't need to be censored. By the way, Mu-2 is the Japanese name of the airplane as well.

I'd just replace my note but I don't want to get into a revert war. Rsduhamel 06:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for just reverting like that and not really thinking too much about what you said. I was kicking it into high gear with vandalism. I went ahead and put your info towards the top of the article. In the future, things like naming conventions go there. No hard feelings. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 07:01, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Voice Actor?

In the section under anime I think, it's mentioned that in all appearances Mewtwo has been in, he is voiced by Phillip Bartlett (game + anime, English versions). I would like a confirmation of whether it is Phillip Bartlett or Dan Green (as I looked elsewhere) - Look for Dan Green and it says that he did the voice for Mewtwo returns.

[edit] Comfirm this... QUICK

Is Mewtwo Legendary or NOT?121.6.108.126 12:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Uh, sure he is. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Donate)} 21:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

may i knw why?121.6.100.153 04:29, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Because in the game you can only encounter it once. See Legendary Pokémon. Army1987 12:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

then how bout Eevee?219.74.117.127 08:54, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Eevee is given to you by NPCs in all games except Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, and not faced in a pre-scripted encounter with an overworld sprite. It can breed, and you can win multiple Eevee at the Game Corner in Gold, Silver, and Crystal or catch them wild in Diamond and Pearl. --76.19.99.113 12:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

(Reindent) Generally, if the only way to encounter it is to encounter an overworld sprite of it and fight it and/or towander around and find it wandering about in the grass (and not necessariloy at full health each time, might I add) after a specific event (i.e. Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Lati@s), it qualifies as Legendary. -Jeske ^{(v^_^v)} 04:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC)