Talk:Metrosexual

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News This page has been cited as a source by a media organization. See the 2005 press source article for details.

The citation is in: Bethany Clough. "Guys go for style", The Fresno Bee, July 31, 2005.

News This page has been cited as a source by a media organization. See the 2005 press source article for details.

The citation is in: Joe Kennedy. "UBERSEXUAL? JUST ANOTHER BIG LOAD OF BALONEY", Roanoke Times, November 5, 2005.

News This page has been cited as a source by a media organization. See the 2005 press source article for details.

The citation is in: Jim Quig. "Manscaping metrosexuals among us, even in Canada", Calgary Herald, October 3, 2005.

News This page has been cited as a source by a media organization. See the 2005 press source article for details.

The citation is in: Jim Quig. "There's more to metrosexuality than having your hair styled", Calgary Herald, October 10, 2005.

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Contents

[edit] Bryan Ferry and Peter Murphy

Wasn't Bryan Ferry the original metrosexual, and Peter Murphy the second?


Can someone add information about Democratic Presidential Candidate Howard Dean's self-identification with the term metrosexual? For many Americans, his self-identification was the first time they heard it. ~~freepatriot

[edit] Which Bravo show?

In the summer of 2003, as most of Canada legalized gay marriage, the US Supreme Court struck down anti-sodomy statutes as unconstitutional (Lawrence v. Texas), and Bravo introduced a cable show in which stereotypically Fabulous gay urbanites make over a hopeless, hapless hetero, Metrosexual sprang back into the public discourse after a decade of UK obscurity.

Are we suppose to guess this Bravo show's name? As well, this 'sentence' is much too long. I will edit it, someone find the name of the Bravo show. --ShaunMacPherson 11:40, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I don't understand how it is so hard to figure out. The name of the show is 'Queer Eye For The Straight Guy'.

[edit] 'Metrosexual' = prejudice?

In light of the obvious tension present in this discussion, I would like to posit a different way of thinking about metrosexuals. I argue that through their spectacular presence, metrosexuals empower and privilege the feminine gaze while, perhaps unwittingly, undercutting the monolithic and castrating nature of postmodern masculinity.

In their resistance to traditional gender norms, metrosexuals threaten to collapse the dominant heteronormative ideology, hence the homophobic verbal backlash. According to feminist, gender and queer theories, dominant ideologies are maintained through the persistent ‘Othering’ of groups that resist or lack the normative codes they prescribe. According to this formula, women and gay men shop freely to make up for what they lack; establishing a highly visible identity in a world of straight white male invisibility. Straight white males who seek more visible identities via consumption also inhabit the subordinate space of the Others. The performance of the metrosexual is a highly visible disavowal of the dominant heteronormative ideology. Thus, those who criticize the metrosexual are not afraid of a distinct group of men, but of a slow and steady shift in postmodern masculinity that threatens to collapse the heteronormative ideology via disavowal.

Wikipedia is the wrong place to "posit a different way of thinking". This is an encyclopedia. Our job is to summarize the existing way of thinking. It sounds like your thesis would make a really interesting eassy though. Cheers, -Will Beback 01:01, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marilyn Manson reference

Marilyn Manson makes a subtle reference to the term in his song "New model #15":

And I'm vague and I know that I'm homopolitan

Interesting because:

  • "Homopolitan" is arguably coined out of "metropolitan" and "homosexual", as well as "metrosexual", but uses the other combination.
  • The song has been issued in 1998, when the word "metrosexual" is said to be unused in America.

(Together with "vague", it also reminds you of Vogue magazine and in turn Cosmopolitan Magazine -- though this might be unintended.)

"Metrosexual" comes from "metropolitan heterosexual", not "metropolitan homosexual". Also, according to this site [1], "homopolitan" is a play on "homosexual" and "Cosmopolitan" (the magazine), which seems like a more probable explanation. Miraculouschaos 17:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reference section needed?

I assume that all the quotes in the Metrosexual article are from Mark Simpson's original article (although it is really not that clear to me that they are all from the article). If they are, then there needs to be a reference section telling which magazine or book they are from. BlankVerse ∅ 08:22, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I was just about to suggest the same thing... Xinit 7 July 2005 23:05 (UTC)

I'll third the suggestion. There should be references in all wikipedia articles. -Seth Mahoney July 7, 2005 23:08 (UTC)

[edit] reversion

please stop removing my addition to common usage. I have most often (9 out of 10 times) heard metrosexual to refur to a person "in the closet", and thus it should be included. It doesn't matter ONLY what the orgin was, but also common usage presently. Look at "gay". used to mean happy, now common usage is different. IreverentReverend 8 July 2005 16:07 (UTC)

I agree that common usage is equally important, in many ways more important. However, I have NEVER heard the term used this way. Can you find sources documenting this sort of usage? -Seth Mahoney July 8, 2005 17:09 (UTC)

granted urban dictionary is not exactly a high quality source, but it does show common usage as people see it... it has a mxture of both straight only usage, in the closet usage, and humourous usage, as well as maddox of missionx (thebestpageintheuniverse.com) uses the inthe closet definition on his humourus pointed look at society.

A stereotypical homosexual male who dresses very "stylish" and is up to speed with anything trendy and sophisticated, but swears he doesn't pound ass with anyone.(sic)
A: Homosexual in denial.
B: Excuse to dress gay, feeding the inner homosexual.
In the closet flaming homosexual who says they are straight
A closetted gay man who enjoys maxing his credit cards, emptying his bank account and mortaging his house for the 11th time in his pursuit for the latest fashion items and beauty care products.
He enjoys being admired by just anyone, gay or straight, but claims to be nothing but straight.
Just means somebody who 'takes care of himself' by buying a lot of nice gay clothes..... Heh... But tries to pretend they are actually a heterosexual.
Someone who adheres to homosexual tendencies but declares their sexual orientation to be heterosexual (supposedly)
High maintenance male. Usually a homosexual, or a flamer.
you will find a gay man trying to pass himself off as a metrosexual because he cannot find the courage to "come out of the closet" for fear of embarassmen
1.A man who is not gay but has a very good fasion sense and knows how to take care of themselves.
2. A fag


You almost always here PEOPLE use metro as someone in the closet, and the tv/radio to refur to the traditional definition. IreverentReverend 8 July 2005 17:25 (UTC)

Maddox isn't exactly the place to go for common usage - he's trying (and usually, I think, failing) to be funny, not to use words as they are normally used, and urbandictionary has some of the same issues going on. In both cases (this doesn't establish that this isn't common usage, but bear with me) this seems a sort of reactionary usage - a way of saying, "we wont accept that men who live up to some of the stereotypes for gay men are in fact straight". Again, though, I've never heard someone say a man is metro and actually mean he is in the closet, unless they're joking. Maybe a way to include this usage is to be more thorough about it. I'll make some changes to metrosexual, and you can let me know what you think. I still don't think it belongs on the closet though. -Seth Mahoney July 8, 2005 17:43 (UTC)
I've never heard metrosexual used to describe a gay man, and I dispute this usage. Exploding Boy July 8, 2005 19:19 (UTC)
I dispute this usage as well. It is not the intended meaning. In fact, the point of the word is to differentiate the line between homosexual tendencies of personal upkeep and heterosexual interest (as shown to have been influenced in magazines in the article..). Including this referance undermines the whole of the article. WesleyPinkham 05:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree with IR, seen it at my highschool. It was used sarcastically about the biggest 3 gay guys until their senior year when they came out together... one was upset that no one was suprised, they thought they would shock the school!

Please sign your contributions to talk pages with -~~~~. Thanks. -Seth Mahoney July 8, 2005 19:44 (UTC)

This post seems to say a lot more about the poster and his adolescent anxieties - most of which appear to centre on a fear of/obsession with homosexuality - than about the word. Is this Wikidpedia or a High School bulletin board?

OMG LOLZERZ!!!@! Are real bulletin boards so much more mature than high schoolers talking about themselves on the internet? From your post I can tell you read the bible too much. Or Wikipedia articles. -~~~~

This isn't supposed to be a bulletin board or arena to air opinions. This discussion page is aimed at improving and, if necessary, expanding this entry. A lot of the debate could be cut short if people remembered the wikipolicies:
# 1.3 Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought
# 1.4 Wikipedia is not a soapbox
# 1.6 Wikipedia is not a blog, webspace provider, or social networking site
it doesn't matter what you *think* or how you have heard this term used in "common usage". Without making relevant points and then supporting these with citations, your contributions detract from the articles quality, and thus have no need to be included. --bntrpy 18:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reactionary usage section

The recent changes to the reactionary usage section seems to miss the point (perhaps the writing isn't clear). The issue being taken up isn't whether a person using metro to describe a closeted gay man is right or wrong, but refers to societal norms and stereotypes. Even if the hypothetical metro is a closeted gay man, that kind of usage suggests that the idea that we can't read a person's sexuality by looking at stereotypical behavior is being rejected. -Seth Mahoney July 8, 2005 19:44 (UTC)

um... if they ARE gay (read later come out) then apparently they CAN read their sexuality.... the way it reads now is making the caller seem wrong. they can be right as well. 134.161.244.216 8 July 2005 19:47 (UTC)
Right, and if you can read someone's sexuality based on stereotypical behavior, then the idea that we can't do so is being rejected. -Seth Mahoney July 8, 2005 19:50 (UTC)
I don't really want to indulge Steve, but this message is for everyone. If someone wants to add a bit about how closeted gay men "use metrosexuality as a shield", you simply need to cite it and properly attribute it to an article. Rhobite 01:14, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
I suggest removing any reactionary/common usage section, unless it is properly attributed to credible articles, which is not the case at this moment. I know there are some issues with the public perceiving the metrosexual as gay, and the marketers assuring he's straight, but there are good articles about that, especially by Mark Simpson. We can't allow common usage just because people and their friends have a certain idea of what the metrosexual is, it needs to be cited by a credible source. Mcmvanbree 16:24, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Arnold Schwarzenegger

Arnold Schwarzenegger has often been called a metrosexual, and he apparently accepts the term. He has called himself a "shoe queen", and is known for his particular care in grooming, wardrobe, and jewelry. A Google search on [Schwarzenegger metrosexual] brings up almost 5,000 hits, including [2]. -Willmcw 23:26, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

The salon piece 'Meet the metrosexual' did introduce the word to global usage - the article was one of the most popular ever posted on Salon, then the web's most popular online magazine, and linked and pasted all over the web and led to many derivative and occassionally plagiaristic articles appearing in the world's media, including 'The rise of the metrosexual' in the Sydney Morning Herald (March 6, 2003)http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/05/1046826436007.html It was also clearly the source from which the American marketers took the concept. Right down to the mention of 'pink shirts' at the end of the article.

[edit] salon.com section taken out

I took this section out because the length was unwarranted. The article did not introduce the word.

The Salon.com did in fact not introduce the word, however, it was more than significant for the popularization of the word. I believe it should be in the wikipedia article, because of its significance. Mcmvanbree 21:53, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
The New York Times article did the most to popularize the word. The salon.com article was published an entire year before the word was popularized. Lotsofissues 22:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
You are right, however, I do still think the Salon.com article is significant, as it explains the concept of the metrosexual better, and the first part of the quote from Meet the Metrosexual, is the most accurate description of the metrosexual in my opinion. Mcmvanbree 03:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Great job fixing up the incomplete article.Lotsofissues 04:52, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Salon.com article

The fuel was set; the spark was Simpson's 2002 Salon.com article lampooning soccer megastar David Beckham, "Meet the metrosexual". The firm Euro RCSG Worldwide adopted the term shortly thereafter for a marketing study, and the New York Times made it a Sunday feature, "Metrosexuals Come Out"; the story trickled into local news outlets across North America.

Simpson's Salon.com definition is distinct from metrosexual 's common use today. His article was detached, wittily ironic, with more than a dash of anti-corporate disdain, and his definition exists outside the gay-straight style spectrum that defines the boundaries of fashion for many Americans –

The typical metrosexual is a young man with money to spend, living in or within easy reach of a metropolis – because that's where all the best shops, clubs, gyms and hairdressers are. He might be officially gay, straight or bisexual, but this is utterly immaterial because he has clearly taken himself as his own love object and pleasure as his sexual preference. Particular professions, such as modeling, waiting tables, media, pop music and, nowadays, sport, seem to attract them but, truth be told, like male vanity products and herpes, they're pretty much everywhere.
For some time now, old-fashioned (re)productive, repressed, unmoisturized heterosexuality has been given the pink slip by consumer capitalism. The stoic, self-denying, modest straight male didn't shop enough (his role was to earn money for his wife to spend), and so he had to be replaced by a new kind of man, one less certain of his identity and much more interested in his image – that's to say, one who was much more interested in being looked at (because that's the only way you can be certain you actually exist). A man, in other words, who is an advertiser's walking wet dream. The "Metro" in Metropolis comes from the Greek word Meter, meaning mother. Hence, as a matter of semantics, "Metrosexual" actually means motherfucker.[3]

It includes a Sex and the City definition for females, and touches on the queer angle only in passing –

Gay men did, after all, provide the early prototype for metrosexuality. Decidedly single, definitely urban, dreadfully uncertain of their identity (hence the emphasis on pride and the susceptibility to the latest label) and socially emasculated, gay men had pioneered the business of accessorizing masculinity in the '70s with the clone look enthusiastically taken up by the mainstream in the form of the Village People. Difficult to believe, I know, but only one of them was gay and 99 percent of their fans were straight.[4]


lots of issues | leave me a message 11:52, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removed trivia section

I reverted back because any list of random facts begins the process of quality deterioration. The first is also mentioned in the article itself.

lots of issues | leave me a message 08:35, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I apologize for the poor formatting, but those random facts were meant to be connected. The point is that "metrosexual" translates literally as "motherfucker". This random fact is worthwhile for someone to know before they choose to self-identify as "metrosexual".
The word was obviously coined by someone who did not know the Greek and Latin meanings of the words they borrowed, or else they would have chosen something less offensive. (Perhaps "cosmosexual" from "cosmopolitan" and "heterosexual"? In this case the implied connection to "worldly" and also to "cosmetic" would be entirelty appropriate.)
Jamie 00:48, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Mark Simpson has already dealt rather smartly with this slightly pedantic issue in his self-interview 'MetroDaddy speaks!' salon.com Jan 2004

http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2004/01/05/metrosexual_ii/index.html

"Did you know that "metrosexual" means "motherfucker" in Greek?

No, but thank you for pointing it out. It does make a certain kind of sense. Metrosexuality is the sensibility of the New Matriarchy. It's post-Oedipal. Dad is largely out of the picture, replaced by Nike and Playstation. The metrosexual family romance, the cradle of male narcissism, is just Junior and an adoring Mom. It's why, from a certain perspective, Italians have been metrosexuals for years."

'UBERSEXUAL' ENTRY SHOULD BE MERGED WITH 'METROSEXUAL' AS SHOULD 'RETROSEXUAL'

Not only is 'ubersexual' clearly derivative of 'metrosexual', it is directly derivative (though not acknowledged as such) of the work of the author of the metrosexual concept Mark Simpson.

Two years before it was used in THE FUTURE OF MEN by Marian Salzman, Simpson deployed the term 'uber-metrosexual' in his article 'Becks the virus' (Salon.com June 28 2003), the same article in which he coined the term 'retrosexual'.

"Beckham is the über-metrosexual, not just because he rams metrosexuality down the throats of those men churlish enough to remain retrosexual and refuse to pluck their eyebrows, but also because he is a sportsman, a man of substance -- a "real" man -- who wishes to disappear into surfaceness in order to become ubiquitous -- to become media."

Clinching the matter, Marian Salzman is the very same marketer who appropriated 'metrosexual' from Simpson's work in 2003.

Even the title of the chapter in her book in which the 'ubersexual' appears 'Beyond Metrosexualmania', is derivative of Simpson's work. He coined the term 'metrosexmania' to describe 'the media's insatiable craving for metrosexuals' in 2003.


[edit] the quote block in the lead

The promotion of metrosexuality was left to the men's style press, magazines such as The Face, GQ, Esquire, Arena and FHM, the new media which took off in the 1980s and is still growing (GQ gains 10,000 new readers every month). They filled their magazines with images of narcissistic young men sporting fashionable clothes and accessories. And they persuaded other young men to study them with a mixture of envy and desire.
Some people said unkind things. American GQ, for example, was popularly dubbed "Gay Quarterly". Little wonder that all these magazines - with the possible exception of The Face - address their metrosexual readership as if none of them were homosexual or even bisexual.[5]

I feel this quote doesn't define the lifestyle, but rather the traditionalist objections. Agree?

Lotsofissues 00:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Merge?

I think that the article "ubersexual" ought to be left as is, since it is a different term. Comments? --Kerowyn 00:35, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

Isn't it obvious that "metrosexual" comes from the words metropolitan and heterosexual? That's what the German Wikipedia article says in the first paragraph. I was bold before, and added that, but it got reverted. I think people here are getting the wrong idea, that metrosexuals are effeminate. Although metrosexuality can espouse any sexual orientation, the word stems from these two words, and designates a hetero who spends time and money on his appearance. Gilliamjf 14:27, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

If we can source the etymology then it should stay. But anytime I read an editor write that something is "obvious" I cringe. Let's find a source, and if we can't find one let's not speculate. If it is truly obvious, then the reader can figure it out for themselves. -Will Beback 22:36, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I believe that is what Simpson's meaning of his neologism was. Gilliamjf 02:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
We should put it in because that is what the source says, not because it is obvious. Cheers, -Will Beback 06:53, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Personally I'm still trying to figure out how this is a sexual orientation. Is there any reasoning for that given anywhere? The article doesn't seem to explain it. --user.lain 23:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
It's certainly not obvious to me, seeing as how the PREFIX is what makes the words "homosexual" and "heterosexual" separate from each other in the first place. It's like saying "sandwich" and expecting people to hear "ham."24.165.210.213 15:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from "Retrosexual"

I just merged the material from Retrosexual and made it a redirect to this article. It's poor material, so I apologize for bringing it here, but I'm just acting according to the vox populi. Brian G. Crawford 23:20, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't see a recent AfD vote for Retrosexual. Is this from the Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Retrosexual ended in November? This material seems unsourced, and http://www.theretrosexuals.com/ appears to be useless. I think the definition of it as an antonym is questionable, since some individuals seem to be called by both names. Maybe Wiktionary is a better place for it after all. -Will Beback 23:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Section on "1337" Usage

I believe that this should be removed. Even if anyone ever earnestly used 1337 dialogue, as of 2006 it's only used ironically and even then quite often frowned upon as cliched and trite. I think that if someone wants to stay they need to verify its usage in this context. JD79 05:37, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Last edit

Who's Stuart Turner? Is that vandalism? Mateo LeFou 17:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bogus term?

Isn't this term (metrosexual) bogus? 'has a strong aesthetic sense and spends a great amount of time and money on his appearance and lifestyle': aren't men (and women) supposed to be like that anyway? Is aesthetic sense bad in any way? Is spending money on appearance abnormal? To me the whole term sounds quite strange.

Is it bogus? Maybe, though clearly there are men who have never been near a manicure in their lives, bathe only occasionally, and have their hair cut by a guy who still calls himself a barber, not a sylist. Fact remains it's a widely used term to describe a particular stereotype, though like most stereotypes it has serious limitations when you try to apply generalizations to individual people. Fan-1967 19:00, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Problem is that this term is used left and right in a negative connotation. Though it seems rather normal to care about your appearance. BlackAsker 19:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Not that normal, though maybe you haven't ridden a crowded city bus lately ;-) -- Fan-1967 19:53, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misuse of the term, "metrosexual"

What would the opinion be here if this section was added, referring to the large majority of secretly homosexual (closet gay) men who now instead of claiming to be heterosexual, claim to be "metrosexual". It's becoming an increasingly common occurrence, especially in those from social backgrounds which are very disapproving of homosexuality (e.g. christian fundamentalists in the deep south of america, muslims, hindus). It seems that the vast majority of men who would call themselves metrosexual are actually homosexual and the ones who are actually "metrosexual" would refer to themselves as heterosexual but be referred to by others as metrosexual. (That's how i tell the difference anyway... other than when "metrosexuals" i know have gay sex on a flight to beijing)

In my opinion, it's a sad day when perfectly heterosexual men can be segregated as immitating homosexuals just because they aren't disgusting (I'm a traditionally disgusting heterosexual man).--KX36 20:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Like everything else in Wikipedia, we'd need a source for that viewpoint. If you find one, please add it. -Will Beback · † · 22:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sexual orientation

Why did we add Template:Sexual orientation to this article? "metrosexual" isn't a sexual orientation, it's a matter of personal style. -Will Beback · † · 21:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Personal style? I'd call it a subculture at best. It's an umbrella term for "feminine" masculinity that was made into a buzzword by the boulevard media. It's definitely got nothing to do with sexual orientation though. The label is misleading like that, mostly because it doesn't make much sense in the first place. 91.0.100.106 21:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Narcissism

This epitomizes what WP:SYN prohibits. Bringing Freud in in order to expand upon the assertion of 'narcissism' is original research (and not very well-crafted at that, IMHO). Much of this article reads like an undergraduate gender-studies paper, full of ideological biases, unexamined assumptions, and sloppy reasoning. I vote that this section be dropped until someone has something meaningful and within wikipolicy to enhance the larger article. --bntrpy 19:39, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV dispute

This article has several portions, eg, "Metrosexuality is the trait of a sophisticated man..." that seem to remove criticism of Metrosexuality, especially in the beginning of the article. If someone with more knowledge on this topic could review and/or edit this article to ensure it adheres to WP:NPOV, it would be much appreciated. Additionally, I would appreciate if other editors would discuss ways to improve the neutrality of this article here on the talk page. Ninja! 00:55, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

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