Talk:Methodist College Belfast

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[edit] Methodist College Chess Club

I don't think this warrants a seperate page. On its own it is barely notable. I suggest redirecting the page to Methodist College Belfast and merging the contents, in a much more shortened form. Any thoughts? Stu ’Bout ye! 10:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

There may as well be sections on Clubs in Methody - Rugby, Cricket, Choir, Chess, Rowing etc. These are important parts of the school community and do add something of interest to the article. I think the Chess Club is too weighted toward the present though. Throughout it's existance we've won titles at all divisions and levels. It's the greatest acheivements that should be going into a summary like this. I am going to edit the page to reflect this I think. ZincAtari

My above comments referred to a seperare article that existed on the chess club. I've since merged the contents from that page here. Stu ’Bout ye! 07:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion and gossip about the current headmistress

We need to keep this objective, factual, and told from a Neutral point of view. Newspaper interviews need to be referenced.--feline1 21:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Wildly POV and probably libelous. I've removed it. Stu ’Bout ye! 08:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
The majority of this is actually true, and I would like to see it re-written NPOV with references. There are several newspaper stories available on the web that make reference to the current headmistress's unpopularity. e.g.

http://www.sundaylife.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=697992 & http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=704789

I'm happy for the page to be changed to reflect what the Sunday Life article states, but the Telegraph one has been archived and I can't read it. It can't be used unless people can access it. I seriously doubt it mentions most of the accusations on the wiki article, the quotes especially. Stu ’Bout ye! 07:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Ah, she's been given the boot! Can I be the first to say: "Yeeeeeeeeooooooooow!" LOL --feline1 13:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I've heard different stories; only official line is that she resigned, does any one have any info?

If you read her article, there is a link to the UTV page, and she was on TV. Im glad im not the only one who disliked her! Must add some information about Astronomy club.

[edit] Significance of both Chess and Astonomy Clubs

I would not consider the rather mundane success of both these clubs to merit such large sections on the Methodist College page. To balance the article, each club and society would therefore need to be given similar content. Otherwise it should be removed from the main school article or given its own page.

[edit] Unreferenced POV

I've place a minor [citation needed] tag near the beginning of the article, but the whole article is extremely unreferenced. The only independent sources relate to the headmistress (are they still advertising like it says btw?). There is a load of fluff in the article about reputation for this and that, success in this or that, winning etc., but there are no sources. It should really be de-POVed with the help of independent references. -- zzuuzz (talk) 00:58, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

A quick check of the methody website indicates that they are still advertising. Is it really necessary to link to the job application page as a reference? Also, exactly how do you prove that discipline is good and that uniform policies are strictly enforced? Thedarxide 08:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
"The school is generally regarded for its high academic standards...", fluff -- zzuuzz (talk) 10:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Being regarded for high academic standards is not "fluff". From the Methody website: "The College does not send its results to the press for inclusion in league tables, believing that they tend to mislead more than inform, but with over 73% of A level results being graded A or B, the College would have come within the top 50 grant-aided schools in the UK. At GCSE, 74% of all pupils obtaining 5 or more A* and A grades would have placed the College in the top 30 grant-aided schools nationwide." We can't therefore link to league tables, and I'm assuming that this isn't "independent" enough for you. If you don't like the statement, change it.Thedarxide 10:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Please see WP:WEASEL. Furthermore, who says it is 'regarded', them? you? -- zzuuzz (talk) 12:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edit War

Is it just me or is there a really dumb edit war going on in the infobox as to where MCB is located. So far most people have agreed it's in Belfast like.--ZincBelief 15:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unreferenced POV and non factual statements

The article gives the ages of the pupils as 11 to 18. This is not the case in a minority of instances, as is perfectly obvious to everyone. Some pupils are 10, some are 19. One could add in the word majority, but overall what is the point? All Grammer schools in Northern Ireland have the same age range, so I don't see the point of including this erroneous point. Perhaps you could add in the academic years instead if you really think it's necessary, but please don't add material that is a patent lie.

Cka4004 is also claiming the majority of pupils are not atheists, how on earth could they know that? It reminds me why I think religion should be banned in schools frankly.

The school is known for it's uniform policy? I never heard that before,I have never heard anything along the lines of So you went to Methody eh, what lovely uniforms your school has like.

This page is not an advert for Methody, it is an encylopedia, content should be clearly true--ZincBelief 21:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

The years probably can go. Methodick however *is* infamous amoung other schools in the city for being a place of strictly done-up top buttons, jolly hocky sticks and "closing those curtains on a saturday morning"... however these things are hard to quantify. More importantly though, the religious background of its intake is significant in the context of 2ndary education in Northern Ireland, which is primarily segregated along religious lines - despite being founded by the Methodist Church, Methodick has one of the most broadly integrated sets of pupils of any school in the province, including its overseas intake. Such matters can be backed up by census statistics etc--feline1 00:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

As a former pupil of the school who left in 2004, I can safely say the majority of pupils at MCB are not atheist. The school has a very strong Christian Union, Christian assemblies and is the school of choice for many religious leaders children. RE pupils at the school are also in high numbers. CKA4004

Just a factual correction in your statements ZincBelief. You stated that All Grammer schools in Northern Ireland have the same age range. This is where you should avoid sweeping unencyclopedic statements. Lurgan College, Portadown College, (just off the top of my head) only admit at age 14. Also Campbell College until comparatively recent times was an age 14 admission school. You would also not get any 10 year olds in the Senior School.
Also, for once I have to be in total agreement with Feline1 when it comes to the religious mix comment. I speak from first hand experience(even though it was many years ago)Weejack48 08:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, so Grammar Schools exist in 14-18 format, I stand corrected, I thought they were comprehensive. However the material presented at the moment is leafed straight from Methody's website. It is clearly an advert for the college, why else does CKA4004 insist on placing extensive infront of the past pupil organisation? The majority of pupils are forced to study RE, and attend the 'Christian' morning assembly, I believe you can escape these if you claim certain relgious beliefs. This therefore seems to add little weight to any definition of their actual religious beliefs. To assert the majority of pupils are protestant is without foundation. I mean, I have known Satanist pupils at MCB, shall I add that into the article? Why must we have the wording 'one of the most' when 62 integrated schools exist in Northern Ireland already? Surely simply stating it has a diverse pupil make up is acceptable and does enough to convey the social structure. Are pupils in Methody actually surveyed on their religious beliefs?

Moving away from this, it would be a good start to explain what a voluntary grammar is. --ZincBelief 10:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Some references which might be useful


Some good points, however if anyone feels they are forced to study RE or sit through a Christian Assembly then why send your child to the Methodist College, a christian school since its foundation in the 1800s. There may be 62 integrated schools in NI, however MCB is not one of them, it is voluntary grammer, it does not have integrated status, and it is testiment to the pupils and staff of the school that parents of every background have chosen to send their kids to an open minded seat of learning. Within a mixed area in the city where Catholics and Protestants stand side by side.

It is well known the majority of pupils are Protestant in the same way that the majority of pupils in a Catholic maintained school are catholic. The article is stressing the positives and any negatives about the school, just because people have taken the time to write about past pupil orgainisations which other schools may not have does not mean they cannot be talked about?? CKA4004

Owing to the nature of the Education system in Northern Ireland almost all pupils are forced to study religious education in some form or another. There are not enough places at integrated schools to escape this. MCB has a substantial Catholic minority due to the absence of a Catholic Grammar school in the catchment area, or enough Catholic places within the area. This is well known, but personally I don't see the point of defining each religion present in the college. It is only well known that the background of the pupils is protestant by majority, there is no survey of their actual religious beliefs, and I don't see how the religious make up of the college is relevant to its educational policy. The Islamic pupil seems to have disappeared I note. I don't follow your point about the past pupil organisations. Whoever has taken the time to write about them has copied the information from Methody's website. There is no need to describe the Past pupils association as extensive, and indeed there is no indication of what its extent is. I don't see any places where the negatives of the school are stressed at present, perhaps I could add a reference to Gary Charters being jailed if I wanted to stress its negatives. I can't remember if it was GBH or murder. There is simply no need though, positive and negatives are generally not needed to describe the college. Years is a better description than ages. It may not be commonly used in Northern Ireland, but it is present in the curriculum and is actually accurate. Stating ages is not accurate, as there are exceptions.--ZincBelief 12:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


Is it really relevant in an edcational article to talk about murder? such similar material already exists on the Campbell and Sullivan Upper pages.

If a past pupil is famed for anything they can be included in the past pupil list, so yes. --ZincBelief 13:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

In one of the articles you have linked this page to, it also publishes the pupil format in age rather than year. The age of Senior school being 11-19. Perhaps that would suit you better?

However this page is about a school in NI, and the term years is confussing to the people of NI. Two Catholic schools in the form of Rathmore and Aquinis are within 3 miles, I dont agree that Catholic parents send their kids to Methody because there is no school closer. Many of my own friends, who are catholic, chose Methody to steer away from the Catholic education. To broaden their childrens minds and to take advantage of everything the school has to offer.

Why have you changed it to 11-18 then? The point is that the wording at the moment is factually inaccurate, but you persist in maintaining it, to match the methody website. The usage of year being uncommon in Northern Ireland is irrelevent in an international encyclopedia. I shall glance around other schools to see what they use. It should at least have an adjective in their to describe the exceptions. I am sure it is documented that Methody's religious diversity is on account of the lack of available places in suitable neighbouring Catholic schools. If I find a reference I will add it. --ZincBelief 13:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

By removing parts about religious background your are taking the way the opportunity to include history of Islamic pupils, Jewish pupils and many more.

The schools Former Pupil network is easily discribed as extensive, to the tune of reunions in Hong Kong, America, Canada, London to name but a few. While also having a former pupils sporting orgainisation and links with the Methodist Church in Ireland, and to other Methodist schools in the rest of the UK and Ireland.

Northern Ireland is a Christian country, and I dont remember any 1 single person every being forced to study RE, but it is what you sign up for at the door. Perhaps an education at a non-controled school, or the Belfast Institute, would be more suitable for these pupils? CKA4004

People, it is not helpful to turn this discussion into some POV bickering about whether Northern Ireland is a "Christian country" and how many C.U. members there are at Methodick: the issue for the encyclopedia is simple - is the religious *community background* (which does not have to equate directly to any implied religious fervour of the teenagers in question...) of MCB pupils *notable*? There seems to be a fair consensus amoungst editors that it is: within the context of NornIrond's 2ndary education system, MCB's mix of pupils is notable. It is also verifiable, and thus well suited to referencing and inclusion in the article.--feline1 13:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
It may interest some people yes, however the wording at the moment uses pupils from aCatholic background and a Protestant majority. I changed this to say protestant background, but this change got reverted. My opinion is that the exact religion of the pupils in the college is not interesting, their background would be. In terms of diversity the existance of overseas pupils is the most interesting fact, because it is this aspect which is most uncommon. --ZincBelief 13:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I would concur with these views, yes. Meanwhile CKA4004 is clearly a god-bothering POV loon who can't even manage to login and sign things properly.--feline1 14:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

One link which questions the religious make up of the college. This puts atheism top as I suspected. http://alaninbelfast.blogspot.com/2006/09/methody-update.html#c116293964592296381 --ZincBelief 13:52, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The link to a unaccountable, irrelevant, Blog is not a a factual or acurrate publication of what internal affairs of Methody are, in the same way as me saying that Methody is an all girls school, it is possibly my opinion but it is not fact. CKA4004

Then perhaps I shall treat your words on the subject as irrelevent as well. There is no evidence to show the religious beliefs of the pupils in Methody. Therefore only referring to background is preferrable, is it not? --ZincBelief 14:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


Treat my words as you like, however i didnt write the opening paragraph of the page, I and the other editors just dont agree with what you write. I was at the school until 2004 from 1997 and am now a member of Harlequins and I can asure you that the majority of Pupils are Protestant, however a good number are catholic. That is the facts, im sure the school has the true number published somwhere. You seam to have problems with religion as a whole, however the vast majority of the pupils of Methody do not. Cka4004
I do just that. If you are going to add in POV and unsourced statements I am going to challenge them. Do not be suprised by that. I have an extreme problem with segregated education in Northern Ireland, but that is hardly relevant to this article. What I want is a proper depiction of MCB, not something innacurate and biased that has been lifted straight from the MCB website. I don't see what is wrong with that, I think other wikipedians support this approach.--ZincBelief 15:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Cka404, as can clearly be seen my the other talk comments, other editors do NOT fully agree with what you write; I believe we have found a consensus somewhere in between your POV religionist agenda and ZincBelief's antipathy towards segregated education.--feline1 15:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

There is bound to be overlapp between the website and the page as in general are talking about the same thing, I don't have a religionist agenda, I just feel that it should be known the MCB is a school open to all with an extensive range of pupils from different backgrounds and religions. Zinc is trying to ignore that. Also his edits generally involve mass dumpings of work without thought or replacement. CKA4004

Your statements about "Northern Ireland is a Christian Country" and the MCB CU and your current loving tribute to Saint Peter's Denial of Christ all clearly betray your religionist agenda; moreover your characterisation of ZincBelief's edits is quite bogus also. Notwithstanding that he has already explained some of his motivations, please note wikipedia's policy on Wikipedia:Assume good faith

--feline1 16:00, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

That's a very provacative claim to make. At no point have I sought to deny that pupils at MCB have religious beliefs, nor have I made any claim that the school does not admit pupils from certain religious beliefs. Mass dumpings of work? What on earth is that supposed to mean? You will find that the majority of schools in the UK are open to all with an extensive range of pupils from different backgrounds and religions.--ZincBelief 15:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

--ZincBelief 15:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The rest of the UK doesn't have the problems that Northern Ireland has, excuse me Feline? I dont even know who Saint Peter is, never have I mentioned it on here??? Zinc you have dumped work on rugby section, chess section and the building of a new school under the titles of irrelevant. without simply moving them to a relevent section like I had to do after you had just destroyed them. CKA4004

Of course you know who Saint Peter is, you eejit. Nothing is "destroyed" on wikipedia, as it's all in the edit history, until the year 2017 when the servers will be so big that North America will sink to the earth's core. Moreover the article still appears to contain ample sections on MCB's glorious rugby and chess teams. Eyes? Dry 'em?--feline1 16:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I felt I rather improved the chess section. I completed the list of Olympiad players and corrected a false statement about Brian Kelly captaining the team that won the Times Schools Championship. The allegation of dumping is without foundation. I remove material that is not relevant, that is perfectly normal on wikipedia. --ZincBelief 16:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peer Review

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You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Weejack48 21:43, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

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