Talk:Mestizo
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[edit] Format this page like this?
Eurasian (mixed ancestry) is a page, similar to this, about peoples of a mixed race (in that case European and Asian). This page would look much better if it was formatted similar. Casey14 00:27, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Mestizo Racism in Latin America
The whole section on "Mestizo racism in Latin America" is a rant and borders on, if not become, racist. It does not belong in an encyclopedic article. I think it should be deleted. Silverchemist 19:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Mestizo, as a term, is a negative POV statement
The colonial period has really injured the mentality of all the people involved. So much racism and exploitation has made people adopt pretty stupid perspective on identity. Nobody on Earth is PURE, so EVERYBODY is a Mestizo! Unless your an Eskimo or a Laplander, you are probably not pure.
Why did Europeans always want to adopt the posture of purity in colonial period? Was it a way to break the link of the natives to humanity and make it easier to execute something evil? The truth is Europeans don't really do this anymore, but the poor people they once tormented still suffer the mental torments via words like "Mestizo".
A typical Latin American mestizo is dark skinned like a "native" American (AMERICAN), dark haired like an American, and dark eyed like an American. So, the presence of some rogue Spanish/Portuguese/French adventurer in an otherwise unbroken chain of purity is UNMEANINGFUL to our identity. Let us drop the moniker, forget the link, and be more centric to our true identity in America. America is home and has been home for 20 millennia. If a French person had one Polish ancestor 500 years ago, would they called themselves a Franco-Pole Mestizo or just French?
It is better for Latin Americans to simply forget Spain. Spain sucks. Spain is garbage. Looking up to Spain is ridiculus. Do Americans from the USA look up to Spain? Spain is degenerate. Spain is where Europe's porn is made. Spain has nothing to offer. In the USA, one could start college, obtain a masters, obtain a PhD, conduct a Post Doctorate, make millions of dollars, and live a long life and there would be no need or importance to reading something written by Spaniards, studying Spanish, or much less speaking to Spaniard. Let Latin American declare true independence and drop colonial monikers and call ourselves Aztecs, Lencas, Olmecs, Caribs, Mayas, Araucanians, and Incas.
Bottom line, Latin Americans need to be more like Americans from the USA. Never let someone else define you and never look up to something that sucks. This is why the USA rocks. Follow the leader, the leader is showing us the way.
- Why don't you grow up? Haven't you noticed that most people in the US are descended from Europeans, especially Northern Europeans, and they speak a European language, English? What a delightful self-contradiction that you use the word 'Latin American' - what could be less authentic than that? Even if Latin Americans don't like Spain, the fact is that what they read, watch or listen to in Spanish doesn't come from Spain at all, just as as most of what North Americans read, watch or listen to in English doesn't come from England!Quiensabe 05:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Racism section
The section on racism needs to be rewritten. I don't know anything about the subject, but the last three sentences of the third paragraph are argumentative and betray bias. Redkern 23:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] No Mestiço ascendancy in East Timor
This section about East Timor is complete and utter garbage, which is why I removed it (again!)
"Much like the mestiso minority in the Philippines, the East Timorese mestiço minority typically comprises most of the small privileged upper and upper-middle classes, surrounded by a mass of impoverished unmixed natives."
Wrong. There are many Timorese with no European ancestry, who make up the small middle class, along with ethnic Chinese.
"From Indonesia's invasion of the country on December 7th, 1975 - just a week after East Timor's unilateral declaration of independence from Portugal on November 28 - Timorese movements for independence from Indonesia were also largely headed by Portuguese-speaking mestiço activists."
Wrong. Less than five per cent of Fretilin leaders or cadres had any European background - see José Ramos Horta's book Funu: The Unfinished Saga of East Timor, Red Sea Press 1987, page 130.
"Mirroring post-independence Philippine history, following the end of Indonesia's occupation in 1999, many of the mestiço independence activists moved in to form much of the East Timorese government."
Wrong. José Ramos Horta and his ex-wife Ana Pessoa (Minister of Justice) are the only mestiços in government.
"Portuguese was also instituted as [one of] the nation's official language[s] despite also being spoken by less than 10% of the population at that time."
Whether or not people support this, it cannot be blamed on mestiços - most Portuguese speakers in East Timor are not mestiços.
"Current prominent East Timorese mestiços include president Xanana Gusmão and foreign minister José Ramos Horta, among many others." Xanana Gusmão is not a mestiço!
Stick to facts, or failing that, learn some history! Quiensabe 05:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Need for Article on Mestizaje
We are considering the articles on race, hybridity, miscegenation, and we think that the "mestizo" article is lacking and needs revision.
In searching "mestizaje" the Wikipedia brings you directly to "mestizo," and perhaps this is not the best way to understand the differences between what should be two seperate entries. Mestizo, for one, is a very static concept; whereas mestizaje implies ambiguity and an historical process, dynamic relationships. Mestizaje, of late, has been brought up in light of globalization, and how we might think of the global community in racial and ethnic terms. This is not encompassed by a term--mestizo--that relies on a statistical reference to the people of a particular nation. Indeed, mestizaje could be seen as a challenge to static categories of race, rooted in notions of racial purity.
Certainly, there are groups that worry about using "mestizaje" to replace the standard goal of multiculturalism, but the entry for "race of the future" is clearly ambiguous in its conception, given that the picture on the cover of the Time Magazine could be defined as both a "mix" of races and the new face of a "multicultural society"--which implies a spectrum of colors.
Perhaps mestizaje allows us new ways of thinking about national, community and individual identity, shaking the foundations thereof, because it references not the solitary idea of the individual but the coming together of people.
Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kruiser (talk • contribs).
[edit] Mestizos in Brazil
There are much more mestizos in Brazil, 12% is simply ridiculous. In Brazil, terms like mestiço, mameluco and caboclo are falling in desuse, and pardo is used to designate people whose ascendencies point to a mix of races (Europeans, Africans and natives). According to the last census of IBGE, the pardos are around 60% of the total population -- and may be more, since many people do not see themselves as pardos. --Tonyjeff 00:01, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] See also Passing.
Can we template it?100110100 01:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
