Talk:Melodic death metal

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[edit] Melodic Death Metal and Melo-death are not the same genres

Melodic Death metal refers to Death Metal with a greater sense of melody like Kronos, while Melo-Death is merely Melodic Metal with influences from death metal like In Flames, Amon Amarth e.t.c.

  • 'Melodeath' is the short form of 'melodic death metal'. 217.199.54.130 12:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scandinavian death metal, Gothenburg Metal, and Melodic Death Metal are all the same thing and should be merged. It's ridiculous to give melodic death bands a different name simply because they're from scandinavia.

Well, imo, we need a regional referance to Gothenburg metal not just Melodic Metal. It is as important as Florida Death or Bay Area Thrash. I do agree that Scandivian Death isn't as a tightly defined and regional. Yet the Gothenburg Sound did define early Melodic Death as much as Bay Area defined early Thrash. Atechi23:36 24 June 2006
No, this is a ridiculous notion. Melodic Death Metal (or Gothenburg Death Metal) is not the same thing as Scandinavian Death Metal (or Stockholm Death Metal). Listen to Dismember, Entombed and Grave then listen to Dark Tranquillity, In Flames and Arch Enemy, the former are more Death Metal with Melody rather than full blown Melodic Death Metal and there are clear differences in arangements and compositional styles. Of course it should be stressed that these styles only derive their names from their point of origin and are not geographicaly exclusive, for instance Fleshcrawl are a good example of Stockholm Death Metal inspite of being German wheras Detonation are certainly a Gothenburg death Metal band even though they are from Holland.

[edit] The Black Dahlia Murder are not melodic death metal

They clearly flow in the metalcore vein for their fairly simple hardcore-fused song structures and breakdowns; while they have opened for bands that could easily pass as death metal or melodic death metal, that does not make them one. This band being on the list makes equal sense as about a zillion other bands being on the list that sound just like them (As I Lay Dying, The Red Chord, The Red Death, Between The Eyes of the Dead, etc.) but obviously belong in the metalcore/hardcore category. Danteferno 12:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

This is a very old discussion of what label to put on a given band; this is certainly non-trivial for most bands especially in the crossover styles and it's typically hated by the bands themself. There just isn't a checklist that you can use to determine which band belongs in what category and hence this discussion will always be POV. Spearhead 16:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't see why The Black Dahlia Murder are not melodic death metal. Ok they have hardcore song structures, but why does that make them not melodic death? What about bands like Light This City, and some Deceased (especially As The Wierd Travel On)? DanielAbrams

- Black Dahlia is definitely a band that would consider themselves melodic death, but they do seem to have some metalcorey influences. I would say Black Dahlia is way more melodic death metal than "metalcore". You can see the difinitive structure of simple melodic death, especially in their Unhallowed album.

-The Black Dahlia Murder Is far from metalcore in many obvious ways-They DONT utilize breakdowns in their music, They DO incorporate melodic and harmonious riffing and solos, they have lots of drum blasting (blast beats if you will), no accenting or harmonious vocals (As I Lay Dying, Bleeding Through, Killswitch Engage, etc.), and their lyrical basis is structured around many Death Metal related aspects such as violence, gore, death, disease, necrophillia, etc. Dispute if you must, but I insist that The Black Dahlia Murder be referenced as a Melodic Death Metal Band based on their sound, song structure, and lyrical content.

-Black Dahlia is NOT Metalcore. Sure they look like Metalcore/Hardcore kids but thats not what they play. And you should probobly listen to them a little more before you say thing like "they use breakdowns" because they don't. They ARE Melodic Death.

-I very much agree with the last 2. People try to label them as metalcore only because they happen to have a large "scene" following. I don't mind that too much, because of the plain fact they destroy.

[edit] Opeth

Any reason they (weren't) listed?

Because they have absolutely nothing to do with melodic death metal
Melodic death metal (often referred to as melodeath) is generally considered an offshoot of death metal. The subgenre contains more melodic guitar riffs and solos, which are sometimes acoustic, and also occasional 'clean' singing as opposed to traditional death grunt vocals.
Now, what there conflicts with Opeth's music?

Opeth is in every way melodic death metal, they meet every criteria (with the exception of damnation), they should be added.


The Damnation album is not melodic death metal it's prog rock, i edited the page to reflect that but it was deleted. i dont know what there is to dispute about that, please give a reason whoever did. it should read:

"Opeth (except the Damnation album)"

I didnt edit it, however it looks scruffy. At what point in their discography did they do this Damnation album?

scruffy as it may be it seems to be the format of every other circumstance where a band has albums of different genres that ive seen. it was released in 2003 as the second part of the deliverance/damnation recordings. damnation is composed entirely of clean vocals, with no heavy riffs whatsoever, for the purpose of contrasting with the Deliverance album which was released in 2002 and featured Opeths typical death metal stylings.

What? Opeth are pretty melodic... in fact, they're progressive melodic death metal, if you want to get all genrenazi about it. But yeah.


-I agree, Why don't we just put them in 2 catagories. Melodic Death Metal and Progressive Metal.

  1. REDIRECT The real gener we should classefy Opeth is:Classical Doom Death Metal....that's to be very specific,but if we want to give it by one word ,it should be EXTREME Metal...Melodic Death has nothing to do with Opeth

I'm sorry, but if you seriously think Opeth are melodic death metal then you know nothing about music. Opeth are progressive metal with some death vocals thrown in, and if you knew the fundamentals of genre classification you would know that vocal style does not define genre.

[edit] Amon Amarth are not melodic death metal

They are viking metal. It might seem to make sense to put them in melodic death metal but if you compare them with someone like Children of Bodom or In Flames (older in flames) its clearly not their style. They are closer to normal death.

Just because Amon Amarth have lyrics about Viking/Norse themes doesn't necessarily mean they're Viking metal. Viking metal is a specific sub-genre of black metal. They're more aggressive than Children Of Bodom and In Flames, but I'd still say they're melodic death metal, not death metal.

- Amon Amarth is absolutely melodic death. They aren't like old Arch Enemy or At the Gates or anything like that, but just because they have Norse/Viking lyrics doen't make them a "Viking Metal" band. 80% of Viking Metal bands are either melodic death, black metal, or power metal. Amon Amarth is definitely the melodic death of the three.

-If I may make a point, just because a band has a theme doesn't mean it should instantly become the setting for a subgenre. Would you consider Nile an "egyptian death metal" band? Especially when not a single member is egyptian? Same applies to Cradle Of Filth (I know they aren't Melodic Death but they suit my example). Should Cradle be labled a "Vampiric Black Metal" band? Amon Amarth especially should not spawn any sort of subgenre, especially because Vikings don't even exist anymore. -You can't really catergorise bands as being viking metal: viking metal is more about the lyrics and themes than actual music. Amon Amarth are definately melodic death metal. Anything vaguely metally with viking themes can be called viking metal, but that is not the type of music it is. -Viking Metal isn't a fucking genre.

[edit] Carcass are not melodic death metal

Carcass are the progenitors of the grindcore, especially goregrind, sound, and are in no way a melodic death metal band. Some of their later releases moved to a "traditional" heavy metal sound which is, granted, more melodic, but not at all melodic death metal.



Go listen to Heartwork, then come back here and say they aren't partly melodeath. That album was one of the first melodeath-esque records ever. Essentially paving the way for other bands. Ladysway1985

Heartwork is definately melodic death and should be added. DanielAbrams

-Carcass is Grindcore AND Melodic Death. They started Grindcore and ended Melodic Death. How is there later work "Traditional"? It has harsh vocals and blast beats.

[edit] Children Of Bodom

Don't you think Children Of Bodom should be added to the list?

CoB use fetch most of their influence from Power Metal and Black Metal. If you check the composition of their music, and of the bands lyrical themes. They share very little connection with Death Metal, bar minor use of Death Metal esque parts in riffs, in some songs. Thus, they dont warrant a place here. Leyasu 06:17, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Why does CoB not belong if their page says that they play melodic death metal? Some sort consensus ought to be reached on this, because right now there's a difference that's sort of confusing. RufusX 01:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Please do not go around distorting information. The article says they play a HYBRID genre, which is true. --Sn0wflake 02:59, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
What they play Rufus, is a somewhat mix of Power Metal and Symphonic Black Metal. Added is minor Death Metal influence. Thank you however for pointing this problem out, im sure i or another will adress this problem shortly. Leyasu 05:18, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Symphonic black metal? What does Children of Bodom have in their style apart from keyboards (which do not even use symphonic arrangements) that in any way relates to that genre? --Sn0wflake 06:41, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

When i wrote that i was half distracted, i meant to say Melodic Black Metal. Thus is the power of my beautifull but devious lady Hannah for you. Leyasu 07:15, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

My apologies for the Bodom page - it was late and I was edit happy. This however is a full on contradiction, so someone who feels more authorative about it should probably make fixes instead of silly newbies... Apologies! Apologies! RufusX 09:27, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

We all make mistakes, dont worry about it. Leyasu 09:54, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps there should be a note on the page saying something about why CoB doesn't belong, along with a note to look at this talk page. I know I didn't have enough sense to read this before I went around editing, and this all seems like a problem that wouldn't take much to prevent... RufusX 23:56, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
If someone who knows how to put notes in the article, that dont appear on the article page, would care to do so, your proposed soloution would work easily. Leyasu 09:06, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Children of Bodom are very easy to classify, I don't see the confusion :) They're just a hybrid (as stated previously) of Melodic Power Metal and Speed Metal. Taking into a count their past albums, and most especially their latest album, they have absolutely nothing to do with any kind of Death Metal. Ladysway1985 05:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Ladysway, although COB's lyrical content can sometimes show traces of death influences, their music is clearly Melodic Power/Speed, and it's the lyrics and especially Alexi Laiho's harsh vocals that have probably lead to all the controversey. Dying2live 08:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)dying2live
You guys are breaking down this stuff way too much. if children of bodom is anything, they are speed metal and that's it. they aren't melodic death metal at all. if they are then what is opeth? they sound nothing like each other, and opeth should be (and is to me) the band in which other bands are measured when it comes to classifying a band as melodic death metal.

I go by what Encyclopedia Metallum says. The guys behind it have been in the metal scene for nearly 20 years now, they know what they're talking about. And Encyclopedia Metallum deems them to be "Power/Speed Metal with Harsh Vocals", although you cannot deny that the earlier material (particularly Hatebreeder) were at least influenced by melodeath. Lartsa 20:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

  • Children Of Bodom are a Melodic Death Metal band. Let's review the styles shall we?
  • Power metal: Yes they have lots of melody and their music is more melodic than harmonic. Unlike In Flames and Arch Enemy the entwining 'Gothenburg' dual guitars aren't so prominent, since Alexi Laiho plays mostly solos all the time. They also make frequent use of keyboards.
  • Melodic Death: They have death vocals. Power metal mainly has clean vocals. Death vocals are a key element for Death Metal or Melodic Death Metal. The lyrics aren't related to fantasy/epic battles etc which is present in power metal. Instead the lyrics are focused on death and the grim reaper. The music is a lot heavier than power metal albums, especially the last two albums. And they have a lot of double bass drumming.
  • I don't think they have any relation to black metal, not even Symphonic Black. None of their music has a symphony playing with it. Only the keyboards give it their symphonic-esque sound. And the lyrics aren't black metal related, and the vocals are growling, not shrieking. In Flames 18:19, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Incorrect. Vocal style has nothing to do with a bands musical classicfication, that would mean that almost all Funeral Doom bands play Death Metal. This would also make Necrophobic a Black Metal band, disqualify Arch Enemy from being anything more than a Thrash Metal band, put Dissection soley into the Black metal catagory etc etc. Going on lyrical themes then Amon Amarth are a viking Metal band Deicide are Black metal, Mayhem's early works would be Death Metal... forgive me but that is absurd. With CoB I think the best thing to do would be to call them Extreme Power Metal, simply because they are basically a power metal band with harsh vocals and some extreme elements.
  • CoB is a mixture of Extreme Power Metal, with influences from Black- and Melodic Death Metal.DJLarZ 13:13, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable bands?

How can a band like Beyond Shadows stand amongst notable bands when they have only ever released a single album? That doesn't make them very noticable i my book...

Not noticable? You find me another melodic death metal band in the musical cesspool of NYC, albeit one that is as good as Beyond Shadows.

They released their second full length album, Escape From Reality, earlier this year. There is also reputed to be a special edition of this album to be released with a few bonus tracks sometime in the near future. It's really quality over quantity anyway. Beyond Shadows is one of a very few true melodic death metal bands from the USA... most American stuff is more metalcore or mainstream oriented.

[edit] Arch Enemy?

Are they clear to add to the list?

I wound not classify Arch Enemy as melodic death, especially their old music.
Arch Enemy is definitely Melodic Death Metal. Their old stuff (except maybe Black Earth) included.
Arch Enemy is without doubt melodic death metal, and in my personal opinion one of the greatest examples of it. In fact Michael Amott was one of the pioneers of the melodic death metal scene of Sweden, I am surprised why there is any confusion to this. Dying2live 08:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)dying2live

- I can't even understand why you would even ask this. Arch Enemy is CLEARLY a melodic death band. ESPECIALLY their older tunes. This shouldn't even be discussed.

I personally don't listen to them that much, and haven't heard much of their music. But i have listened to their newest music and despite the olden days they are clearly heading in a new direction with their music, take Nemesis for instance they have a small section of the song with clean and melodic music, but does the lead singer calm down and actually use her clean vocals on the music? no, i think they're death metal

Same with In Flames, his voice doesn't "calm down" in every song either. It's wrong to generalize it like that.

-Are you kidding me? Arch Enemy is 100% a Melodic Death Metal band! I say this being a HUGE fan and being familiar with all of there work. Sure maybe they like to get a bit soft on the newer stuff but its still very much Melodic Death. They're just sprinkling some Progressive Metal on top now days.


"Black Earth" is clearly Melodic death, like a mix of "Clandestine" and "Heartwork"

[edit] More Asterisks

I have added some more asterisks to both Hypocrisy and Wintersun. Below is my reasoning for both:

  • Hypocrisy: Peter Tätgren's vocal style, at least in the earlier albums (particularly Catch 22) is more black metal in style. Also, with the addition of Horgh (from Immortal) playing drums on Virus, the sound is still fairly influenced by black metal. They have also recently lost some melodic-ness (evident on Virus), I would even go so far as to call them Blackened Death Metal (though not in the same vein as Behemoth or Zyklon, for example.)
  • Wintersun: To be honest, I do not agree with the placing of Wintersun in this category at all. I would agree if the sentiment was that Jari Maenpaa drew some influences from melodeath ("Beyond the Dark Sun", et al), but to me it still sound like a homologation of black and death, also with some folk influences.

I do, however, feel that this strenuous categorisation is a little too overpowering... who cares really, just enjoy the music! Lartsa 20:44, 23 May 2006 (UTC), Long time metalhead...

[edit] Cleaning Up

I've just deleted the list of bands that do not have any articles. I've also deleted Opeth off the list - they don't relate to Melodic Death Metal at all. Opeth are progressive death metal, with lots of acoustics and jazz influences. Except for Damnation, which is prog rock (however one album doesn't change the bands genre). And I've also deleted Death. Although they have their melodic moments they are clearly just Death Metal. Please correct this if I'm wrong In Flames 19:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


BATHORY?

Bathory is not melodic death metal by any reasonable definition. Bathory was one of the forerunners of black metal. --GreatCthulhu 13:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gothenburg Metal

I've just deleted Gothenburg Metal from the See Also list, since it redirects to Melodic Death Metal.Punainen Nörtti 20:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Darkest Hour

I've noticed there have been repeated attempts on this page to list Darkest Hour as a Melodic Death Metal band, I do believe it is justified, especially in their earlier work, their first EP is still part of their history and sounds very similar to Arch Enemy. In addition to that, Hidden Hands of a Sadist Nation was produced by Fredrik Nordstrom who has produced many well known Melodic Death Metal albums and this may show the shift in direction towards Melodeath, for this reason I am adding them to the list. Any objections? 1607m4dsk1llz 19:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Ya know, nevermind that last statement, after serious expansion of musical tastes the last 2 months Darkest Hour is most certainly metalcore, I've also come to the conclustion that any melodic death metal kicks the shit out of metalcore, sorry for being an uneducated ass - 1607m4dsk1llz 19:25, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Killswitch Engage

I've added Killswitch Engage to the list. They are without a twitch of a doubt melodic death metal. Check their wikipedia article where it says their music is heavily influenced by Gothenburg music scene. -- Nemsen 5:34 pm PST July 13, 2006


-Killswitch as melodeath?!?!?!?!? sorry man, thats just funny


-How are they not? Do they have to be from Sweden, Norway, or Finland? If they're not melodeath, what are they?

-Killswitch is just American mainstream metal- nothing close to the Melodic Death Metal we're talking about.

- They are Metalcore, a very GENERIC and STEROTYPICAL one. Learn fucking music people, all their music is simple breakdowns and two-step beats.

-Killswitch engage is indeed a typical metalcore outfit, but one that heavily borrows from swedish melodic death, so one could list this as a melodic death metal band.

-And I removed it form the list, Killswitch Engage are Metalcore, you don't have to be from Sweden etc. Soilwork prove that with their older albums.

- Killswitch Engage are a Metalcore band and honestly even thinking of classifying them into Melodic Death is amazingly funny, even to have the thought one should have checked the common charateristics of the Genre and this band, its obvious.

[edit] perhaps the problem is that not all bands songs fit into one genre

it seems that a lot of people are assuming that all bands can be fit within one genre. quite often a band will produce songs that fit within one genre, whilst at other times producing songs that fit within other genres. now if a band has ann album comprised of

3 songs that are straightforward melodic death, 4 songs that are mostly melodeath with a hardcore breakdown and a song with a melodeath verse structure, a black metal breakdown, a transitions between all parts that are straightforward FETO era napalm death-esque grindcore

then what are you going to call them, blackened melodeathcore with a lemony twist of grind?

when an artist is even remotely eclectic and/or innovative (and not just pounding out safe, by the numbers genre-records based on established/accepted/commonly agreed upon genre phrasings and techniques), it becomes both misleading and dishonest to attempt to describe them with a single genre name, even if their music is mostly comprised of that style.

on the other end of the spectrum it becomes pointless to just begin adding more and more genre tags together. eventually so many styles that people consider completly dis-similar are juxtaposed in such a manner that doesn't really convey any real information.

one benefit that including a location into the name of a genre has is to differentiate even the minor variances that occur between similar sounds developing in different locations. adding a place name also often infers a time period when the music was created, allowing the listener to put the music into better historical context.

It is also not uncommon for a band to evolve towards a different genre throughout their carreer. For instance: Acturus' debut album "Aspera Hiems Symfonia" was an avant garde black metal album. But by the time of third album "The Sham Mirrors" it was simply impossible to describe them as black metal. Opeths acoustic "Damnation" was also a far cry from al their other album. therefore, one can better pigeonhole an album, instead of an entire band.


[edit] borknagar

would borknagar classify as melodic death? the vocals were very death when they started; and they just slowly mixed in some cleaner vocals. Their music still pertains to elements of melodic death metal too?

No, absolutely not, no way, you are confusing Black Metal with Death Metal. I cannot think of a single riff that would even come close to Melodeath on any of Borknagar's albums.

[edit] Notable bands

Do we really need that many notable bands? A lot of them are not really even all that notable (and some of them not even melodic death metal at all). Is this section supposed to be a list of influential melodic death metal bands or a list of all (melodic) death metal bands ever? - Quirk 06:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I seems like lists of notable or key artists in other metal articles get often vandalised by adding ppl adding their favourite band to the list. I guess the most important ones should be in the text anyway and others can be in the list of melodic death metal bands or in a category. Spearhead 08:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Why is this sub-genre linked to "symphonic death metal"? "Gothenburg-metal" is irrelevant when a band is labelled "symphonic death metal", and the word's link takes you to this article... "Symphonic death metal" as I know it is simply; death metal combined with orchestral compositions, and has little or nothing to do with geography.

[edit] Sections of the article need to be reworked

The things that i found to be incorrect in this article:

"and also occasional 'clean' singing"

   Most melodic metal bands words are understandable, coherent screaming is more understandable than "clean singing"

However in recent years, the genre has gained somewhat of a popularity boost, acquiring a small underground status in the North American areas of Florida, New York, Tennessee. California, and some parts of Canada, especially among North American fans of the Scandinavian bands which still pioneer the genre today but are looking for some closer-to-home bands.

    I can not find any source that supports this claim, aspecifically since Tennessee has nearly nothing related to these states,          
    this section should be removed in my opinion.
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