Talk:Mehran Karimi Nasseri

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[edit] Current Position

Anyone have confirmation that Sir, Alfred is no longer at the airport and is hospitalised?

On Dec 20, 2006 I talked by phone with a medical officer at the airport, and he confirmed that Alfred is still hospitalized. Adam Mirowski 16:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feedback

This is an amazing story. I can not believe this has happened in real life. A man stuck in an airport for 16 years, since 1988! Milk 16:17, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Discrepancies

The Guardian has an article about MKN that says he wasn't tortured. There are several other discrepancies between the Guardian's story and Wikipedia. If someone has some time, please look at them, otherwise I might do it some day.

--Stereo 19:39, 2004 Nov 28 (UTC)

  • Not tortured? From the article that you've provided: "He returned to Iran in 1974 and got caught up in anti-Shah demonstrations. Arrested and tortured by Savak, the Iranian ministry of security, Alfred was stripped of his Iranian nationality and expelled." The thing is that I've taken my sources from his book, The Terminal Man, I'll be working on it now. --Andylkl 10:32, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • All right, just finished reading the article... I agree, there's discrepancies... --Andylkl 10:40, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • All right, now the article that you provided itself has discrepancies... His father died in 1967 or 1972? The book gives the date as June 10, 1972. --Andylkl 11:38, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Major discrepancies

Here are some discrepancies that I've listed from the article and the book:

1. Father's death:

article -> both 1967 and 1972 (???)
book -> June 10, 1972

2. Birth mother's country of origin:

article -> Scotland
book -> England

3. Reason for leaving Iran:

article -> [Not listed]
book -> Iranian "mother" rejected him after his father died to stop him from getting his share of inheritance

4. Studies at Bradford:

article -> Yugoslav economics
book -> Yugoslav studies

5. Protests against Shah:

article -> Tehran University
book -> Bradford University

6. Arrest by Savak:

article -> 1970
book -> August 7, 1975

7. Lost documents:

article -> mugging while at the airport, but with "another version"
book -> mugging, but it was later explained that he had posted the documents back to Belgium before reaching England by boat

8. Timeline:

article:
Protests in Tehran University -> Savak -> father's death -> Bradford University -> ??? -> lost papers -> ??? -> ends up in France
book:
(Indications of studying in a university) -> father's death -> Bradford University -> protests against Shah -> funds stop -> fly back to Tehran -> Savak -> deported -> requested asylum in West Germany -> request asylum in Netherlands -> requested asylum in France -> requested asylum in Yugoslavia -> requested asylum in Italy -> requested asylum in France again -> requested emigrating to the United Kingdom -> expelled from the United Kingdom -> entered West Germany -> expelled to Belgian border -> received immigration papers in Belgium -> goes to England -> mails back papers -> stopped from entering England -> expelled to Belgium -> expelled to England -> expelled to Belgium -> expelled to England -> expelled to Belgium -> expelled to England -> expelled to France -> jailed -> current situation

--Andylkl 13:35, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

About the "mother's country of origin", aren't Scotland and England the same country (you know, UK) ?

[edit] Merhan or Mehran

Please fix to whichever is correct. Cheers. -- BD2412 talk 16:14, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC)

It's very queer. One the one hand, all the articles linked to refer to him as Merhan, but on the book cover it is Mehran. Did he change from Merhan to Mehran as he became Sir, Alfred? That's the only reasonable explanation that I can come up with, but it is unsubstantiated. --kissekatt July 2, 2005 09:28 (UTC)

Mehran is the correct Persian word. Merhan is simply a mispronunciation (maybe that how the French pronounce it - correct me on this). --User:Hoomanb

[edit] This is horrible!

This is horrible! I can't believe theres a guy allowed to live in a terminal so long! In a first world country!!! I've never heard of a person who is obviously capable of taking care of himself being treated like this. And he's not even poor if the account is true. And if he is going mentally ill... why don't they use humanitarian grounds to get him out of there?? surely they have laws for that!

hydkat 21:31, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Hey Hydkat. I first noticed the guy in 1993 and it was immediately obvious to me that he is at least midly schizophrenic. He is not "treated" in any way, at least not for the past 13 years. He is just loitering the departure hall of his own free will, and pretty much everybody would like him to just go elsewhere! If you ask male airport employees, they will laugh when talking about him; female employees will get angry because he is basically a "creep". Right now, medicine probably cannot cure him and he is not threatening enough (if at all) to justify going against his will. He takes care of himself today where he is. If move him from there, you will take responsibility for him for the rest of his life. Numerous people have visited and talked to him in the past years, and somehow nobody decided to do this :-) 80.11.211.214 02:15, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] He lacks a front tooth.

i'd like some clarification on this statement. the way its presented "he lacks a front tooth" is pretty vague. the way its worded he could either be missign all of his front teeth or just one, it just isn;'t clear.

Yeah, I vote for that sentence being removed all together. I don't see the relevance or importance of it. Objections? CoachMcGuirk 16:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC) (forgot to sign before...sorry)
It is an upper incisor, i think the second one on his left. You dont normally see people with missing teeth in france (although this is sadly pretty frequent in usa and uk among people with low wages) so it shows a certain state of mind; he would not have any problem fixing this. Factual->keep 80.11.211.171 02:09, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Just because it is factual does not mean it belongs in an encyclopedia. For one, he is not French, so I don't see why he would be compared in that manner. For two, as is, its a poor sentence without any support for why its important. Maybe if he had been unable to fix his tooth because he has been living in an airport...maybe...I still don't think its value-added. CoachMcGuirk 15:47, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't either. Still, I don't see why you guys go through all of this diplomacy. Just take off the sentence after you explain the reason why you're going to.

[edit] More Homeless?

(there are a few of them at the airport) - this is talking about homeless people. Do More homelss live at Charles de Gaulle??? How many? Any links? --HamedogTalk|@ 13:41, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Mireille Dumas, a popular French TV host specializing in social topics did a documentary 1999. This link (in French), mentions it http://www.forumdesimages.net/cgi-bin/rdoc/find?CritA=Leila+DJITLI 82.120.132.164 22:38, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] citations and cleanup

I've added a cleanup note and citations needed tags. If the material is covered in the 3 extrenal links, its necessary to create proper footnotes so that the information can be sourced properly.

The visiting section reads like a how-to, which WP:NOT covers. I'm actually not going to add individual cite tags. The whole thing needs proper citing, if an entire paragraph comes from one source, just source it at the end.--Crossmr 22:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Any update on Alfred?

The last informative source I've found is a Guardian UK article of September 6, 2004, which ends with the info that Alfred's brother Cyrus was planning to see him in a month. The expectation was that Cyrus' visit might bring about a change, perhaps using Alfred's sizable bank account to at least get him into nice quarters in Paris. Anyone know what's happened since Oct. `04? JDG 23:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

This article has been updated many times to say Alfred is still there. I think I have seen him on May 31st, when returning from an open-jaw trip, but would not vouch on it as he is not that visible from the upper airport floors. He is not going to move anyway, except to a place filled with Napoleon wannabees... BTW, regarding the money, 250,000 dollars is not going to buy a big apartment is Paris, maybe 2 rooms. Besides, an apartment costs and requires care, and Alfred definitely does not seem able to accept that lifestyle. 82.120.132.164 22:38, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Visiting" Section

  • Am I the only person that feels the "visiting" section makes him sound like an animal in the zoo? I think it should be removed. --Chris Barna 22:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
If you take a Star Alliance flight to Paris, he will definitely enjoy shaking hands.

82.120.132.164 22:38, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

If it is true that he is no longer at the airport, then this section should tell about where he WAS located, Or maybe it should be removed. Because if there is no Merhan Karimi Nasseri at the airport anymore, why give the directions to him? I too, think that visiting section sounds a little like that zoo thingie Chris said about.

[edit] Attention

I'm marking this page for immediate attention. It contains multiple unsourced and poorly-sourced statements, which according to policy on living persons' biographies must be removed immediately, but they're sufficiently entangled in the article that I don't feel equipped to do it myself. -Stellmach 13:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes and no.

Strictly by the Wikipedia rules, perhaps. Yet, Sir, Alfred's very special lifestyle was commonly ignored even by the employees of the airport despite having been in public view all the time. The only sources readily available are the stories told by the few employees who actually did interact with him by offering him material attention (clothing, presents) or laundry services. All stories I have collected during my few interviews at the airport sound alike. Everyone I asked about him stated that his character had changed for worse at some point in the early-to-mid 2000s and that for example he rejected offers for clothing if it was not manufactured by a popular marketed brand (Nike was mentioned among other brands). From being a likeable, curious individual, his reception within the airport had changed to an unwelcome annoyance which "had to go".

The group of people who could tell first-hand stories and facts about his life is limited to a few dozen interested employees of the airport who pass them on to travelers like me or reporters from the press who ask them about him. These employees were as much of a form of "family" or social environment to him as he ever had. Hence, the press and the public have the same sources as there are no other. And even that group of airport employees is small, as it appears that many employees are either too new or carelessly ignorant about even Sir, Alfred's long presence in the very building they are working in, while there is a constant loss of factual knowledge by long-time employees leaving the terminal for good due to retirement or change of workplace. Hence, in the case of Sir, Alfred's biography, my point is that the rules must be adapted to this very unusual life or there will be nothing about him that could be told at all.

--docpi 06:04, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

There is more than just "random employees who come and go". The airport is a huge enterprise (200k+ people) and has plenty of less-visible staff who know the situation very well: human resources, medical personel, police, security. And there are a number of people outside too. Adam Mirowski 18:04, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alfred could be dead

I tried to locate "Alfred" yesterday evening when travelling and could not find him anywhere. Two different employees of airport stores told me that after being taken to a hospital, Alfred was diagnosed with tuberculosis and cancer and died some time later, apparently still during the summer. Adam Mirowski 04:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Well. When I tried to visit Sir, Alfred on September 23rd, 2006, he was already gone. The section where he was staying had already been closed from public access and was under heavy renovation works, of which I took pictures (some of them are on flickr, especially Sir, Alfred Has Left The Terminal). I also interviewed a few employees who also told me that Sir, Alfred had to be taken to a hospital on a suspected case of tuberculosis. Whether this was just a ploy or excuse to finally take him away, we will perhaps never know. Hence when I edited his wikipedia entry, I chose to call it an "unspecified ailing" (which later got corrected to "ailment"). --docpi 06:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Your statements are very strange. Of course he was not there on September 23rd since since he was not there on Aug 1st already (I was told he left the airport end of July actually). Then you are throwing surprizing insinuations. A "ploy", an "excuse", "finally take him away"? What does this mean? That he was euthanasied? Put into prison? Forced into a psychiatric hospital? "Moved" to some "beggars' yard" in Paris? Extradited? Pushed away from a car in the middle of nowhere like a dog which became "boring"? Please clarify... Adam Mirowski 18:04, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Chrichton Novel

Can someone add a disambiguation link for The Terminal Man? Thanks.

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