Talk:Mega Man X (character)

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Contents 1 Problems I have with this article 2 Name 3 Copy X Material 4 Failed GA 5 New content article 6 GA promotion 7 Rewriting the Armor systems section 7.1 Names 7.2 Images 7.3 Game guide 7.4 Moving this elsewhere 8 Para removed from the intro 9 Pretty much done for the night 10 Personality 11 New Information that Needs to be Assimilated Into the Article

[edit] Problems I have with this article

I agree that X needs an article,a nd I agree about some of the content here - personality, history, armor upgrades, etc. However, none of the text presented here is original material. About 3/4 of it was lifted verbatim from Reeve's site and the remainder is cut-and-pasted from other articles on Wikipedia (mostly stuff I wrote, but it's GFDL so I care less except that it really should remain where I wrote it or be moved, not coexist in multiple locations). --Boco XLVII 1 July 2005 21:38 (UTC)

Oh, I whole-heartedly agree there. I even had the nerve to go through the article and do some revising. Hopefully it reads a little less like plagiarism, but I'm only human.

And, looking at the original condition of the article, even the sample image was a direct link to Reeve's site. Ugh...

--216.229.91.101

[edit] Name

Shouldn't this article just be called "X (character)"? At least in the U.S. games (this article is on the U.S. Wikipedia), he's only known as X, no "Mega Man" prefix. -—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.42.160.53 (talk • contribs) .

His full name is Mega Man X. X is merely a nickname. -Zero^Talk 14:37, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with MegamanZero. In X2, he's referred to as Mega Man X and Dr. Cain even calls him "Mega Man." Doug teh H-Nut 02:15, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I know this is coming in late, but the text in Mega Man X2 and Mega Man X3 contains several instance of "Mega Man X" or "Mega Man" where Rockman X2 and Rockman X3 simply say "X". In fact, to the best of my knowledge, Serges is the only character who ever calls X anything other than "X" in a Rockman X game.

That said, I really don't see any point in changing the name of the article; I just wanted to make it known that the "Mega Man" references really aren't correct. TPIRFanSteve 05:53, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copy X Material

Seeing as Copy X is a different character from the Original X altogether, should this article really go into detail on Copy X's Seraph Armour and Angelic Form? I think it should be stripped out and replaced with a brief mention of Copy X. Wolf ODonnell 14:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Copy X has his own article. Do it there, as this article is already saturated enough with information regarding the character. -Zero^Talk 14:09, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Removed. -Zero^Talk 14:15, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

Although there is a lot of good work here, this article falls well short of the featured article criteria and significantly short of the good article criteria. The biggest problem is that it does not meet the conditions of WP:FICT - it seems to be written almost entirely from within the point of view of a fictional universe. It also fails to meet the conditions of WP:LEAD - not enough context is provided in the introductory paragraphs. An additional problem is that it doesn't meet WP:REF or WP:RS.

To give you an example of what is seriously wrong at the moment, "X was created by Dr. Light in the year 20XX and sealed in a capsule for diagnostic testings" is silly - X was created by Keiji Inafune! And it certainly shouldn't be described that way in the "history" section... Further, the introduction doesn't even mention that X is a video game character. You could read this article as far as "weapons and abilities" without realising it's not about a cartoon character!

Some ideas that could help:

• Try to write from a point of view outside the perspective of the fictional universe
• Can you include details about the process of authorship? Which writers or creators developed the ideas behind this character? What did they base it on? How original is the idea? Is it based on something in real life? You ought to be able to verify this using reliable sources.
• What has the influence of the idea been outside this fictional realm? Have any other game designers professed to "adapting" ideas like this for their shows?
• What about critical response to the character? Perhaps you can talk about the gameplay aspects?

To help you along, here are 3 really useful links:

• User:Uncle G/Describe this universe (Gives the right philosophy for writing about fiction in WP: Describe this universe! Keep that at the centre of all your writing on this topic and you'll be fine.)
• Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles#Check your fiction (pretty much the official guide on what is required of articles about fiction. Helpful but a bit dry!)
• User:BrianSmithson/Writing about fiction (Funny and useful! A must-read for anyone writing about fiction on Wikipedia... I guarantee you will find it helpful.)

You also need to consider your references carefully. Whenever a claim like "In the manga by Iwamoto, X is somewhat less of the heroic image he is in the games" is made that needs a specific citation - who believes that he appears less heroic in the manga? "X has shown the most development of any character" doesn't say which characters he is being compared to and is, again, a subjective opinion that needs a specific citation. The references section is not correctly formatted. All external links used as references should have (as much as this is possible) the author, date copyrighted, and without fail the last date the URL was accessed (e.g. a good example of a linked reference would be this:

"German Sept 11 theory stokes anti-US feeling", Kate Connolly, November 20, 2003, telegraph.co.uk (URL accessed 6 April 2006)

The link to www.gamefaqs.com needs to link to the specific subpages used in the article. A fansite doesn't reach WP:RS unless it is only being used to cite the opinions of fans - i.e. to describe the way fans have reacted to the character.

It might be a good idea to look at Spoo, which became a featured article. Read through and look for all the "encyclopedic" qualities of the article - not just the humour, but the fact that it had extensive inline references, all the references were reliable, authoritative sources, not just fan-sites (see Wikipedia:Reliable sources), it was written from the point of view of "this" universe, it considers in depth the process by which the idea was created, and it looks at the real-world impact of it. This shows that there is no reason an article on a fictional topic can't make it all the way to featured article status, but you have to do a lot of work, including extensive research, to get there!TheGrappler 19:05, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Well Spoo is not a fictional character in article format, so I instead used the artice Wario as a guide, which follows a fairly simplistic way of conveyance. I've made changes to the article attempting to address your qualms as well. -Zero^Talk 13:46, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New content article

I've little opinion of the new content being inserted into this article, but it seems unecyclopediac due to several points. I'd like the user in favor of this content to discuss this beforehand and see what some other editors think about it. -Zero^Talk 14:53, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Your content is poorly written, and if I had time, I would go in improve it. It lacks flow, even considering what it is. As for the new content, fine I'll add it here and see what people think. Let me say this: what is here is rather bland and bias. You speak highly of the character, but fail to mention anything negative that has been attributed to the character, or the controversies that exist. They are controversies for a reason, but you've either not mentioned them, or have already assumed a position.

Contraversy

Two-Canons

With the release of Mega Man X: Maverick Hunter X, two seperate (yet not-destinct) canons were created for the character; the latter replacing the former. However, as is the case of the Butterfly Effect, all events that proceed Mega Man X1 are invalid in the new canon (until officially stated otherwise). Nevertheless, many fans consider Maverick Hunter X more of a replacement and that everything that follows is still valid.

The Original or Not?

While it is more so clear (not definate) that X is a seperate entity of the original Mega Man in the new canon (Maverick Hunter X), such is not the case in the original canon. There is evidence for both cases, most arguing in favor of the two being seperate, nothing has been officially stated or derived.

Limitless Potential

Despite it being an impossibility, many believe X to have the characteristic of limitless potential. While in the reboot of the canon, Maverick Hunter X, the characteristic is explicitly stated, in the original series there exists only one vague reference from a character that is not the position to make such a claim. Conflicting claims were made by Zero in the Mega Man Xtreme 2. As it stands, X fails to have this characteristic in the first vision of the series, but such claim cannot be made for the reboot (again however, such a characteristic is theoretically impossible)

What Happens to the Armors?

Nothing has been released about what occurs with the older X armors. Many theories have been purposed, the most accepted (and logical) is that over time the armors are integrated into his basic template via data transfer, leaving the armors obsolete.

Hypocracy of Character

Despite claiming to be a pacifist, X is quick to launch attack oppose to finding various other forms of conflict resolution. Such an inner conflict was added to give the character more dynamic, but is often only used to allow the viewer/player to sympathize with the character, which when looked at in depth, causes the viewer to see the character's actions as contradictive and hypocritical. Despite believing in pacifistic ideals, X fought over a span that ranges between 100-300 years, albeit, with a brief recess during the events between and concluding in X6 and X7, in the first canon respectively. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zero X Marquis (talk • contribs).

It certainly is poorly written. I placed it up for good article status some time ago only to have that verified to me as well. So yes, the article could use expansion and a re-write. However what you're advocating for is speculation passages. We usually don't encourage such data insertion in wikipedia articles, which can be verified through the welcome links on your talkpage.

This passage almost reads similarly to a FAQ, asking the reader can they answer these baffling queries and semantics such as "did you know that"...? and "This might be plausible". As an encyclopedia, we should strive for informative summeries supported by established fact and (very rarely) heavily founded conjecture spoken from a knowledgeable point of view. -Zero^Talk 15:15, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Infomative summary is the problem with the article as a whole. You mention nothing about the impact of the character, or how certain real world events, or things outside the MMX world have effected the character. I have seen many Wikipedia articles that have included controversies the characters have faced in both their world and the real. I have also read several that have included the problems that occur when a series is rebooted. What's left... they hypocracy of the character: you fail to mention this, and this is HARDLY speculation, hell, a logical person can deduce this on their own: someone who hates the idea of fighting, and yet indeed fights, is well, a hypocrite. The armours is more speculative, but after the overly detailed account of the armors, you failed to even mention that they seem to just fade into oblivion. The Rock/X argument needed to be mentioned, because again, this had a huge effect on how the character was preceived in the real world. The limitless potential was in response to a part of your article that claimed he had it... yet NOWHERE except a non-canonical manga and one quote (which was later refuted) is this claimed... except in MHX, which is a seperate canon/reboot, yet you failed to include this. Work on your objectivity and range. And FYI, encyclopedias (well Wikipedia's version of it) essentially boil down to FAQs, just in a different form. As its easier to for people to understand things if broken down, I opted for that format. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zero X Marquis (talk • contribs).

FAQ formats are not they way encyclopedia articles are written, however. -Zero^Talk 15:46, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Well I'll tell you what, I'm going to keep on putting it up. The information isn't that speculative, and if you want, you can ask other people to critique it (opposed to outright deleting it) The point of this site is to have people augment, to get to correct, objective material, which I doubt can be done in this current state. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zero X Marquis (talk • contribs).

• Please be patient. I'd like other editors to weigh in on this content dispute and see where and how this summary stands in wikipedia. -Zero^Talk 16:03, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Fine. One last thing: If you MUST include a section on Personality and Traits, speaking as a psych undergrad, seriously, do some research into how to describe a person/character's personality using traits. To help out, start off easy with the Big Five Traits, they're bipolar and as such make it very easy to describe someone —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zero X Marquis (talk • contribs).

First of all, I despise your attitude. You've basically come in here out of the blue and attempted to take the place over before even introducing yourself. If someone starting demanding that I rewrite my FAQ in such a way, I sure wouldn't be inclined to cooperate.

That said...your issues. I can get three out of the way quickly: No one really knows yet if Maverick Hunter X reboots existing canon, and I don't think anything more than that should be said about it until we do, 'cause there's every chance it'd be wrong; I honestly can't contribute on the "limitless potential" thing; and outside of the Force Armor and the Falcon Armor, the games have never made any attempt to explain where X's armors go, and I don't think we should, either, 'cause it'd be entirely speculative.

There probably ought to be a section on X's personality, although the way you've bombarded him as being a hypocrite sounds strangely antagonistic. It's almost as though you have a vendetta against him. X has said many times that he doesn't like fighting; he simply doesn't have a better alternative.

Finally, there has never been any realistic controversy in the original timeline over whether or not X is Rock. Quite simply, he isn't. The two have reasonably different personalities, completely different specs (they aren't even made from the same materials), and absolutely no shared memories. In fact, the only way Dr. Light could have made X from Rock would have been to completely disassemble Rock and then rebuild him as X from scratch. Furthermore, Inafune himself has been quoted as calling Rock and X "two different Mega Men". -TPIRFanSteve 18:04, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Well... it isn't HIS to hold onto. That's the beauty of a page that can be augmented by anyone. I can appritiate the work that he may have put into it, but not at par regardless of effort. And simply put, if this were an FAQ that you owned, it would be hosted on your own space at your own cost (possibly covered by someone else) or on some site that scrutinized with some form of guidelines. As I gather, the guidelines in this site is the goal towards completion via mass imput; I'm choosing to excercise my voice.

As for getting them out of the way... CLEARLY you do not understand the word controversy (look it up). The very fact that you can take any two people and have a strong disagreement on the subject speaks for itself. You can't tell me, grounded at least, where they go, so offer a theory and let others offer so as well. That way when someone reads the article, they get the whole grasp of the subject in question. Um, is that speculative, to an extent, but if it is based on some type of concrete observations or logic, it usually is considered a hypothesis or theory. And before you dare spout that theories and hypotheses have no place in an encyclopedia (especially as one as loose as wikipedia) consult any science and then come back to me.

For the timelines, read a book of epistemology, possible worlds, or hell anything that involves a sense of logic. If you change something, everything thereafter changes (even if to the smallest of extents); causality, read up. As such, it stands that MHX must be considered seperate from the original, and everything that MHX does not connect to various MMX sequels. Do you disagree... again, the very fact that you do helps validate my claim that something is inheritantly controversial.

The two seperate robot thing, I don't even believe that they're the same. However, there are those that do, and have supplied evidence supporting their claim, that has not as yet been contradicted within the canon (the older one, MHX basically shows him being built from the ground up)Counterexamples, they'er finky things that serve a purpose

The hypocracy issue: again, only trying to paint a complete picture of the character. I actually respect this character, more so than most other video game characters. However, his "conflict" needs to be examined objectively, and objectively, its contradictive, and one can conclude that within the timespan, he should have got off the fence and respecfully chosen a camp.

I'm not the only person who sees a problem with this page, and I feel inappropriate to "clear" points with people before they get posted, especially when the article itself is flawed. You see all the points that you so proudly spewed off... how hard would it have been to offer it under the headings, or modify what I had posted to get to a more conclusive truth? Again however, the very fact that you argued with me validates my claim that their exists controversy. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zero X Marquis (talk • contribs).

• It positively is correct that this page isn't mine to hold on to. No page on wikipedia is mine or anyone else's to dictate change. That's why we establish consensus and come to an agreement between editors all knowledgeable on the source content, which is being done now. Zero X Marquis is postively correct upon the fact this page needs work. Instead of the introduction of new, speculative content, though, I'd strongly suggest the path of amending the qualms raised in the post titled "failed GA". That depicts most of problems front and center, and there's quite a bit to be completed. Same goes for my Biography, which has similar issues. The previous post section has all our problems set out in front of us.-Zero^Talk 19:07, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

For the last time, it isn't speculation, its various theories that have been presented and backed with evidence, when lack of official evidence is presented. The fact is, Mega Man X is a series within a series that has spanned close to 20 years. No matter how committed the creative team is, there are things that get filled in via the fans. For example, there's a prophacy presented in X3 that X will one day kill Zero. However, that hasn't happened, nor will it probably happen. Why - the caption is a mistranslation from the Japanese port, which basically states they'll fight (which happened in X5). However, it was fans that sought this evidence out, no official offerings from COA. You need to look at other fictional character, wikipedia articles, that are about characters that have a similar fan base. Something else that you need to consider, Mega Man X was helped forge by fan "speculation". Various other issues of metaphysics, human rights, etc have been left ambiguous, which are themes to this game, have been left in the air. Now, I know that not all of these things should be stated as fact, (that's why you stick a controversial or theories heading over it). This character was forged by the fans, like many other fictional characters, and yet most of the information in the article is focusing on the smaller issues. I'm pretty much done with this though, you guys want to do something, have a vision, and really, it shouldn't take this much effort to post some information on a fictional character. Take the information or don't, but if you want to create an objective perspective description of the character, at least consider expanding your vision. - Zero X Marquis 15:27, 3 May 2006

Pages such as this, Mega Man (character) and other major Mega Man pages are some of the most profilic in the video gaming community. It is a personal dream of mine to see these pages reach GA status after so much work put into them from various editors. For now, let's just worry about fixing the sourced facts we have at hand. Other "theories" and stuff can come later.

By fixing the problems stated above, we can hopefully reach that. -Zero^Talk 19:32, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Theories = Speculation. Although I skimmed this discussion, (hey, It's long) I can see that what you're trying to put in is a list of theories. Most of the stuff you made doesn't really go in-depth. The paragraph about X's hypocrisy sounds very NPOV and vague. Such an inner conflict was added to give the character more dynamic, but is often only used to allow the viewer/player to sympathize with the character, which when looked at in depth, causes the viewer to see the character's actions as contradictive and hypocritical. - Zero1328 _Talk? 06:41, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

As of this update, I've made additions to each article, such as references and citations, as well as rewrites on the History section in line for a less-informed reader. I've also expanded the opening phargraphs. I've re-nominated them for GA status. -Zero^Talk 15:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

There are a couple of problems with your personality subcategory:

1. It isn't known whether he was created first (it could have been Zero) or whether he is the most complicated of all reploids; Zero is unable to be analyzed as well. 2. He doesn't have limitless potential; depending on what you consider canon or not (if MHX replaces X1 in canon then yes, if not, then no, and this is not yet known). 3. They have never explicitly stated that Zero has become hardened in battle, or whether he was hardened before. That said, it seems that many of the personality points are taken from the manga, which is not canonical.

This article also uses a lot of cliched hyperboles, that don't really apply: "series follows in against his never-ending fight against Mavericks and the right to protect humanity." - it clearly does end.

The speculation about him having a "human soul" as it were due to him having emotions is illogical. Having emotions doesn't mean you have something as existential as a soul, and that's even when you appeal to most definitions of a soul (which is vague as is).

You're overanalyzing it again. This is an general encyclopedia and those viewpoints are not paticularly noteworthy of change for the reader. Please do not insist on the insertion of fan-site material. Remember we're writing for those who are not knowledgeable on the subject. -Zero^Talk 04:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm taking out this "human soul" bs because its never stated in any form of the series or books. (its self-imposed prose) As well as the limitless potential note. It is only said by cyber peacock that he has such potential in X4, (which has no barring to make such a claim). And in any case, the quote was later retconned by Zero in Xtreme 2 when he describes X's potential as unknown. Zero X Marquis 18:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the soul text has been edited to something that is reasonable since I've last read it, so I'm going to leave it as is Zero X Marquis 18:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

"Though X, believing that power corrupts, has made it a point to relieve himself of any and all upgrades discovered in each episode of the series, he has kept the ability to dash short distances at a high speed - gained in the first game." The part about relieving the armor needs citation... not saying such does not exist, but up until now I have only seen theories that have posed what is done with the armor pieces. Zero X Marquis 23:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going to post the things that I think need to be changed, and the reasons for them:

• it should be reploid instead of robot as robots were what was termed for the classical Mega Man robots, the latter are a new type, (AI) and are referred to as reploids (never robots if I'm not mistaken)
• "One unique ability" implies that it is a characteristic unique only to X (which is obviously not the case)
• Why arguably in terms of development? Because there is nothing stating that he has, except personal opinion, which really could be said about any character (specifically Zero) X hasn't changed all that much from the beginning, not more noticable than any other character.
• Why Dr. Cain's attempt to copy, well as is it seems as if X was the one responsible for the creation of Mavericks... in no way is he. He had nothing to do with the original virus, and he was not the one who created Reploids, (Cain did)
• There is no evidence showing that X is more complicated than Zero (in fact, there's more evidence showing that Zero is more complicated than X), so it is incorrect to say that he IS the most complicated
• Saving planet Earth is redundant... Earth is obviously a planet
• You shouldn't start a sentence with But unless you need to (and it can easily be Over time)
• There's no evidence showing that Zero's grown cold due to the battles; it may be that he was always cold (which would be the most logical case looking at X4).Zero X Marquis 01:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA promotion

I have recently reviewed this article & found that it meets the criterion for being a good article. So I have promoted it to GA status. My congratulations to all the contributors for doing a fine job.

Cheers

Srikeit^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 01:54, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Jolly good! -Zero^Talk 04:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewriting the Armor systems section

Wow, this section has some problems. I'll break them up into headers for individual discussion. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Names

The Light Armor and Giga Armor have overtly fanon names. I don't have a big problem with fanon as long as it's really, really common fanon; can those names be sourced to anything approaching a reliable source, preferably a site without "Mega," "Rock," or a reference to a robot master in the name?

Without a source, we're probably better off just calling them Mega Man X armor and Mega Man X2 armor. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Currently, there's both a sprite and a scanned artwork for each image; this isn't kosher, as neither is actually discussed in the prose. Personally, I'd prefer a screenshot that showed a special ability of the armor, but, failing that, do we want scanned art or sprites, since we really can't have both? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Game guide

Is there a reason we have to explain the specific abilities of every single part in this article? This is approaching game-guide levels, and isn't encyclopedic for the same reason that the Robot Master abilities were removed from Wikipedia. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving this elsewhere

Wouldn't a better place for the armor abilities be the game articles, instead of this article? These abilities are, usually, limited to one single game. On the upside, it gets this stuff out of this already-lengthy article. On the downside, a couple of armors appear in multiple games. I'm indifferent. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Great points raised. In general, I believe the section needs the fandom names removed and sources provided for their re-insertion. As suggested, Mega Man X armor and Mega Man X2 armor wil do fine.

The sprites need to be removed. They're redundant and makes the section seem similar to a game FAQ; its supposed to be prose explaining the armor's capablities in an encyclopediac tone, not game effects word for word. Its not written in a bad manner at all, but I think the infoboxes might need to go...?

I've no strong opinion on the armor inclusion. It seems to me its relevant as a part of the ability section and makes the character, well, the character. I think concensus is already estblished its relevant, although frequent editors seem reasonable to comprimise. I think its removal would be lovely after the next armor comes out. Or we can simply decrease image size and make prose more concise. Just a thought. -Randall Brackett 20:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I made some minor clean-up here and there. I'm not going to dabble in prose until more editors comment. Should I reference each armor with a citation...? -Randall Brackett 22:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Para removed from the intro

“

While fans still appreciated the light and fun tone of the original Mega Man, the original 8-Bit NES system began to fade into obscurity on the face of its successor, the Super Famicom. Along with the improved graphics engine, Keiji developed a darker character design and plot, and according to him, he believes that such designs will continue with each new generation of technology. In line with the new "X" series developed, two characters were created, one being the main character of Mega Man X, and the inclusion of his partner, Zero. [1]

”

I don't see how this interview supports this paragraph. Can someone help me out here? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:37, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The reference is intended for the two lines in that pharagraph, not the entire prose:

“

In line with the new "X" series developed, two characters were created, one being the main character of Mega Man X, and the inclusion of his partner, Zero.

”

“

Along with the improved graphics engine, Keiji developed a darker character design and plot, and according to him, he believes that such designs will continue with each new generation of technology.

”

There needs to be two citations using that reference. -Randall Brackett 20:12, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

“

Along with the improved graphics engine, Keiji developed a darker character design and plot, and according to him, he believes that such designs will continue with each new generation of technology.

”

Can you copy/paste a specific quote that backs this claim up?

(As for the Zero-is-X's-partner thing, I think that can be sourced to the games themselves.) - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Yikes. Incorrect interview, AMINB. You mixed up the references and screwed citations. The appropriate interview is here. I've reverted to the last concensus version and I'd appreciate a explanation in full, please. -Randall Brackett 20:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Ref converter scrambled the refs, crap. How annoying. I'm gonna fix them by hand; don't edit the article for a second. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:32, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

No, don't bother. I'll implement them myself. You removed two (!) references in the course of an edit and on a concensus based article, made large changes without prior discussion on the talkpage. I'm not sure whther that sort of "assistance" is required. -Randall Brackett 20:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, things are going cool, it seems. I'll begin on the armor section. -Randall Brackett 20:40, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

YARG AMIB SMASH. Okay, rolling way back while keeping the infobox cleanup and intro rewrite...this'll be a minute. Looks like the refs need to be converted by hand. <KOAC>How annoying.</KOAC> - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Forget it, I'm in edit mode and I'll do it. I'm adding more references anyway. -Randall Brackett 20:47, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Next step, I'm going to move to using the cite.php style on the refs, so look out for edit conflicts. Sorry about ref converter scrambling everything; I'm not sure what the heck happened.

By the way, whenever I remove something referenced, if and only if I'm still working on the whole article it means I've set it aside to move it elsewhere in the article; otherwise I'll take it to talk with a mention of why I removed it (like above). - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Um. Where are you working? The whole article needs a ton of tightening prose-wise, but I don't want to step on toes. Want me to hold off until you're done with references, or is there a section in particular you're working on? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm doing everything. Please leave your suggestions for prose change here, on the talkpage, as I sometimes disagree with your writing style. It has previously mixed up information, game wise as well. I'd like reasoning why some things about the concensus version isn't competent. I'll check here every few seconds in my alternate tab while I'm working. -Randall Brackett 20:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

You don't own this article, and there's a ton of work that needs to be done. Again, where are you working so I don't edit conflict? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh own, smown. I'm working everywhere. And simply because I don't own it doesn't mean such edits are acceptable. Your recent behavior on Neo Arcadia has proven your knowledge in the series is lacking and I would not feel relaxed without such edits (paticulary on a high profile article) not being discussed. This is a concensus article and I respect it in this regard. -Randall Brackett 21:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The X series I'm comfortable with. I only came in on Neo Arcadia out of a sense of bloodymindedness when I was challenged to rewrite one of those articles to an out-of-universe perspective.

By the way...

“

The truth was that Sigma became infected with a computer virus deemed the "Maverick Virus" (which originated from Zero), leading many other reploids to follow him.

”

I forget; was this from the MMX manual, or was it revealed in another game? I know that the revelation that the virus originated with Zero is from X4 (although I think X3 hinted at it), but I forget if the original manual mentioned the virus at all. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I fixed the refs in Mega Man X#Video Game History. Looks like someone was using the same name for multiple different references, which doesn't work very well. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:47, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I just cited a source for that, but its also revealed in Mega Man X5. Check it out; I made a save recently. -Randall Brackett 21:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

You saved over my plot summary rewrites, but didn't actually mention where the Sigma Virus is first introduced. :/

What claims does Rockman X4 X to Z Kouryaku File back up, so I can place it somewhere relevant? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The "Sigma Virus" is merely another name for "Maverick virus". It was renamed as such in the later events of X3 after Dr. Doppler revealed where the virus originated from.

Rockman X4 X to Z Kouryaku File is a sourcebook that establishes Zero is the originator of the virus, amoung other things not spoken or elaborated upon in the games. -Randall Brackett 22:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay. The Sigma and Maverick Viruses are the same. I was always kind of vague on that one.

As I recall, the MMX backstory explains Sigma going nuts by saying he had the whatever virus, right? 99% on this one, but I might as well check with you while I have you here. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:06, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The maverick virus usually makes Reploids exhibit strange behavior; violent tendancies, mood swings, mutations. Sigma, however did not. Because of his advanced programming, he retained his high intelligence, cool demeanor and the like, abielt simply became evil. It also took longer for the virus to sweep through his system. See Sigma (Mega Man X). -Randall Brackett 22:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Forget all the later games and go back to 1994. Before any of the other games were released, the only explanation for Sigma going nuts was that he was infected with the Maverick Virus and this was explained in the MMX manual, right? (I'm 99% sure this is the case, so it's going in the article.) - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually it was the Zero virus, which is the original virus from Zero. It is the most powerful, and pure, but when infected Sigma and other Reploids lost much of its destructive danger (still, however dangerous) and named the "maverick virus". See maverick virus. -Randall Brackett 22:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Right. That's revealed in X4. The MMX manual attributes it to the Maverick Virus, right? I want to establish the real-world chronology: X explains it as the Maverick Virus, X3 explains that Sigma is a virus, X4 explains that Sigma was actually infected with a virus from Zero. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:00, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Addtionally, your comment about the X series articles is clarifying. I made the Zero articles when I first arived at wikipedia. I didn't make and improve upon the X series until later. By then I had developed a higher level of writing and process. I suppose I apologize for being a jump-the-gun swine and writing bad articles. -Randall Brackett 22:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. Every article still needs a lot of work, be it two-line stub or featured article. That's the point of a wiki. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pretty much done for the night

Done up to X3 and {{Cite video game}} is in use up to X5, and I'm gonna call it a night. X4 has a tangled plot (that's about where it starts getting more complicated than "Here's the guy who's secretly Sigma's pasty, ZOMG HE'S SIGMA'S PATSY, Sigma gets shot in the face, end"), and I have stuff I'd rather be doing offline.

Anything jump out as problematic for the plots of X through X3? I'm gonna be really annoyed if I go without any reply here, but come back tomorrow and see a wholesale revert with no explanation outside of the edit summary. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Bonus thought: I was thinking of moving the Xtreme sections down to real-world chronological order (so, after X3), since they're not story-heavy and are lightweight as far as retcons go. They'd be phrased "Xtreme fills in the time between X and X2 with blahblahblah" or something like that, so the in-universe order would still be conveyed, but I really thing out-of-universe chronology is more important than in-universe. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Just finsh the citations when you return. Your edits thus far have been fine. -Randall Brackett 22:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personality

“

X has arguably shown the most development of any character in the series. His inner conflict about fighting has always been a nagging doubt. [2] Over time, he's turned this conflict into a sense of duty towards fighting Mavericks, that wouldn't exist were it not for Dr. Cain's attempt to copy him. Still, he remains compassionate. His rank in the Hunters remains a B Class rank despite his great skill, simply because of this conflict. Despite being B Class, he has amazing power. No mechanics or programmers can fully understand his inner workings. He's one of the most complicated of all robots, despite the fact that he is the original; Light's design is superior to Cain's interpretation. With his great remorse for Reploids comes great trust, sometimes too much so. He trusted Mac and Magma Dragoon, both of whom betrayed him. He first shows a bit of mistrust in Mega Man X4, in which he questions the integrity of Colonel and asks him to disarm. In Mega Man X5, he shows more distrust, being wary of all the Reploids he faces on his hunt for the Enigma and Shuttle parts, even if he's not sure that they're infected. [3] He's grown in maturity and ability to distinguish a need for distrust. Still, he shows great compassion for those he must destroy, and especially those who were needlessly destroyed. [4] He's seen it several times, and while other Hunters have grown cold to witnessing this, X has not. He remains compassionate no matter what. [5]

”

Pure original research (analysis sourced only to primary sources). This needs to be sourced to a secondary source, or the analysis needs to be ditched. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:01, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• I completely concur, and I like the bold, swift moves with the removal on this and Zero page... kutos to you!.Zero X Marquis 04:55, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Information that Needs to be Assimilated Into the Article

Sorry, but I'm too busy right now to do so, and if anyone has any free time, that would be swell. This infomation comes from Tim over at Mega Man Network, which is from an offical source book entitled "Rockman Zero Complete Works". This infomation retcons a sizeable amount of past information, and much of the articles surrounding these characters need to be changed to reflect the new information.

- Zero is not the original carrier of the virus. Hell, Dr. Wily didn't even engineer the thing. - Dr. Light created the virus as a means of pacifying his creation, X. This "virus", which in actuality is called a "suffering circuit", keeps X calm and creates his hatred of violence. - Zero was built as a pure raging homicidal maniac, so we can just infer that Wily completely circumvented the Rules of Robotics with his creation. - Zero got the virus at some point*, and it does to him what it does to X, in that it suppresses his violent tendencies and makes him "good". Zero becomes a Hunter as Sigma's mental state deteoriates (I think it's inferred, if not stated, that Sigma gets the virus from X. How he becomes the carrier and eventually the virus itself is either not explained or not translated yet). - The reason Mavericks become they way they do is because they can't handle the program in its raw form. They go insane because of it, which circles back to the potential cause for irregular behavior being some sort of design defect that X and Zero don't have because they are the originals. - Zero is sealed away at some point in the X series era. - Zero's copy body is made during this timeframe, and his memories transferred (the mysterious scientist in X6's ending?) - Zero wakes up in his copy body to help X fight in the Elf Wars. - Weil, as we know, finds Zero's body and builds Omega around it, because Zero is "immune to the virus". Perhaps that cleansing worked? - Dr. Weil had corrupted the Mother Elf in his own way of doing good, because he wanted the Elf to destroy everyone he considered evil. Omega, who he created using the original body of Zero (that part wasn't retconned, thankfully), went overboard and killed 90% of Reploids/60% of humans instead. Elf Wars blamed on Weil, citizens of Neo Arcadia illegally banish him, yadda yadda. - Guardians are killed at the end of Mega Man Zero 3, destroyed in Original Zero's explosion. Mother Elf shielded Zero and returned him to the Resistance Base. - Zero 3 was initially slated to be the end of a three-game arc. Zero 4 was created, presumably as a way to bridge MMZ to ZX by killing Zero and setting it up for Models Z and X to be Live Metals with the other four Guardians (point explained below). - Oh yes, Ciel and Weil's ancestors were once bitter rivals.

the link to the thread where this infomation is given is: http://megaman.retrofaction.com/community/index.php?showtopic=3368&st=0&#entry68000 Zero X Marquis 19:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)